The Danish Girl's representation of transgender people

[partinggifts]

Hi,

I'm writing an article on the representation of transgender people in film, particularly The Danish Girl. Would anyone be willing to answer some short questions on what they think about the film and its portrayal of Lili?

Please let me know as soon as possible.

Thank you very much.

[Laura_7]

You could have a look here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201406.msg1791768.html#msg1791768

Presuming you are a Cis person... you might simply ask further questions... maybe some is not as easy to relate to...


hugs

[partinggifts]

Thank you very much!

Basically, my questions are:-

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?

Thank you to anyone who is willing to help!

[SgtSalt]

I haven't seen it yet, so I can't answer your first three questions, but I know from reading other trans people's responses to it, it was not a good representation at all. However, I can answer the fourth one, because most of the trans people I've talked to feel the same way about it: they should not have casted a cis man as a trans woman.

There are so many trans people who act (I know of a few professional trans actors) and yet no one will hire us for their movies features trans characters. It especially doesn't help that there are so few trans roles to begin with. I know that there actually is a trans woman actress in the movie as well, which is doubly frustrating, because they had a woman who actually knows what it's like to be a trans woman and yet they hired a cis man to play the part instead.

Hollywood has always had a very terrible time casting LGBTQ actors. Within the last decade, actors have been allowed to be gay without it damaging their careers, and it's only time we do the same for trans actors. It's ridiculous how we keep coming out with movies about LGBTQ characters and praise cisgender/heterosexual actors for their portrayal of what it's like to be a minority and then continue persecuting and punishing the very minority they're portraying. Bit hypocritical, don't you think? You're allowed to be gay and/or trans unless you're actually gay and/or trans.

[Devlyn]

I haven't seen it yet, so I can't answer your first three questions, but I know from reading other trans people's responses to it, it was not a good representation at all. However, I can answer the fourth one, because most of the trans people I've talked to feel the same way about it: they should not have casted a cis man as a trans woman.

There are so many trans people who act (I know of a few professional trans actors) and yet no one will hire us for their movies features trans characters. It especially doesn't help that there are so few trans roles to begin with. I know that there actually is a trans woman actress in the movie as well, which is doubly frustrating, because they had a woman who actually knows what it's like to be a trans woman and yet they hired a cis man to play the part instead.

Hollywood has always had a very terrible time casting LGBTQ actors. Within the last decade, actors have been allowed to be gay without it damaging their careers, and it's only time we do the same for trans actors. It's ridiculous how we keep coming out with movies about LGBTQ characters and praise cisgender/heterosexual actors for their portrayal of what it's like to be a minority and then continue persecuting and punishing the very minority they're portraying. Bit hypocritical, don't you think? You're allowed to be gay and/or trans unless you're actually gay and/or trans.

The counterpoint to that is you would have to only allow cisgender people the opportunity to play cisgender parts, which are the vast majority of roles available. The net result would be to severely limit the parts available to transgender performers.

People should get roles based on their acting skills and nothing more in my opinion.

Hugs, Devlyn

[cindianna_jones]

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?

Cindi: There is no accurate representation for all trans people. As for representing this individual, see my response to your question #2. A dramatic representation of a historical event will always have errors. So what?

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?

Cindi: It's Hollywood. There is always a bias the writers or directors throw in. With that said, I've seen some great spin on this film.

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?

Cindi: Any positive presentation is helpful. I think this film will be very good for us. We are human beings after all and we are often perceived as objects.

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?

Cindi: Acting is an actor's forte, or should be. Very few actors get to portray themselves in any role. Those that do get type cast.

Cindi

[michelle666]

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?
I thought it was done well.

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?
I personally didnt notice any flaws but I wasnt looking for any.

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?
I think it's a good story and will help.

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?
I have zero issues with this. The actor who played this part is an actor and did a good job. I dont get all bothered about CIS actors playing trans roles. I don't get bothered when americans play brits in movies. If they do a good job then bravo to them!

[stephaniec]

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?

1. I mean it's not a documentary , I think what's his name did a good job showing the inevitability of the progression of dysphoria.

2. I had a lot of questions about the fact that someone with the severity of this particular dysphoria was triggered all of a sudden like this and wonder if there s much more to elli's story that not told.

3. If someone offers me a glass of water after being lost on a hiking trip in death valley , I won't refuse it because it's not a pitcher of water.

4. The thing is in this particular instance and the period of time that's being portrayed , I really don't feel it matters. Elli didn't have access to hormones. She relied on her own natural looks when going through the coming to terms with herself. There is no difference between a cis or trans actor in this particular case, Yes , trans need to be given the opportunity for realism when portraying transition, but in this and only this particular situation the physical representation is valid. In this day and age with the tools of transition I'd say it's more important for honesty and realism to be a part of the project .

[cathyrains]

Thank you very much!

Basically, my questions are:-

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?

Thank you to anyone who is willing to help!

Of note, the real Lili Erbe was first and foremost intersex.
It is important to separate fact from fiction. The fictionalised account of Lili's life as depicted in the film "The Danish Girl" has been heavily skewed towards a transgender narrative.

[BeverlyAnn]

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?
As accurate as possible in 120 minutes and still tell an actual story along with it.  The movie was accurate enough that I saw so much of myself in Lili, I cried through at least a third of it.  If you want a truly accurate representation of a transgender person, view a documentary like Southern Comfort.   

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?
All Hollywood movies are flawed.  This was a mostly fictional story of love between two people based on true events.  Even movies which are true stories are never true.

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?
I think it will help with those who are receptive but uneducated about trans people.  Those who have a closed mind will never be swayed no matter what you present to them.

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?
Movies are made by the crew.  But movies are financed by investors who expect to get their money back.  If you don't have a  NAME talent, then your chance of getting financing goes down.  It took Tom Hooper seven years to put together the financing to make The Danish Girl and he needed a name talent for the investors.  So he gave the script to Eddie Redmayne in 2011 when they were shooting Les Miserables. In preparation for the role, Redmayne interviewed a range of trans women such as 80 year old April Ashley, MBE and Cadance Valentine, California activist.  Cadance and her wife did several sessions with him talking about their relationship and what it was like when Cadance came out to her wife.  Do I think any other actor, cis or trans, could have studied as hard and pulled off this role as well as Eddie Redmayne?  No.  And as far as the logic of only a trans person should have been cast in the role of Einar/Lili.  By that same logic, the trans man (can't remember his name) who was a party guest early in the movie should have been played by a cis male.  Or the role of one of the nurses later in the movie should not have been been played by British actress Rebecca Root but by a cis woman instead.  I think the cast was perfect.

[SgtSalt]

The counterpoint to that is you would have to only allow cisgender people the opportunity to play cisgender parts, which are the vast majority of roles available. The net result would be to severely limit the parts available to transgender performers.

People should get roles based on their acting skills and nothing more in my opinion.

Hugs, Devlyn

Well, I mean if you have a trans role it should go to a trans person over a cis person while cis roles can go to anyone. It seems highly unfair a cis person gets praised for being a trans person while trans people continue to be discriminated against for just existing (i.e. Eddie Redmayne made a statement about "how hard" it was to play a trans woman and got sympathy for it even though he is a cisgender man).

[Peep]

Let's have at least SOME trans people in trans roles... I mean rather than a blanket rule cis in cis and trans in trans, it would be nice to see the cis people playing trans as the exception, rather than those few trans playing trans or trans playing cis being the remarkable ones.

[stephaniec]

it just seems logical to use a transitioning actor in a transitioning part ,,, just for the sake of realism vs black face

[cathyrains]

Well, I mean if you have a trans role it should go to a trans person over a cis person while cis roles can go to anyone. It seems highly unfair a cis person gets praised for being a trans person while trans people continue to be discriminated against for just existing (i.e. Eddie Redmayne made a statement about "how hard" it was to play a trans woman and got sympathy for it even though he is a cisgender man).

it just seems logical to use a transitioning actor in a transitioning part ,,, just for the sake of realism vs black face

That seems like a rather precarious step towards biological essentialism. Would you feel the same about a screen role portraying a drag queen?

[SgtSalt]

If people didn't detest and loathe trans people so much, I would be okay with cis people playing trans parts. That's why I'm not upset when straight actors play gay roles, because our attitudes towards gay people have changed so drastically. However, the fact that there are literally trans women who could have played the part and didn't get to and then it went to a cis man who discusses how hard it was and gets sympathy for it is a bit aggravating, don't you think?

[Brooke33]

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?
I can't speak for others, but I think Redmayne's portrayal was quite on point.  There were several scenes where I felt awkward because his mannerisms and actions reflected my own when coming to terms with my transitioning, and it was strange to see it on a big screen.  My wife also saw several similarities and would glance sideways at me when they occurred.  This movie hit home hard for us, as I've only come out to my family as trans since last October, and we're experiencing many of the 'growing pains' portrayed on film.

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?
I felt the movie was brilliant, but as many have said before me, it's Hollywood.  I wasn't expecting a documentary, but a story, and that was what I got

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?
I think this film will definitely help as a larger exposure only helps to stimulate conversation on the topic.  One can only hope that interest in the film will draw one to look into the subject further to educate themselves.

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?
I know this has been a touchy subject for many, but I've always been of the notion that any actor should be able to play any role.  This role had previously been attached to Nicole Kidman, Rachel Weisz, etc, before coming to Redmayne.  I actually find it much more realistic to see a male play the role and transition to female throughout the movie, as it's what Lili/Einar experienced.  The best actor/actress to pull off the role should play the role, simply put, and it doesn't hurt for movie financing/distribution to have the previous year's Oscar winner playing the lead.

[jaybutterfly]

late to the party but here goes


Basically, my questions are:-

1. Do you think The Danish Girl offered an accurate representation of a transgender person?

I actually found this film emotionally distressing in parts to watch because many of the things I was doing to explore my gender identity were how Lili discovered her gender in this film (particularly the mirror scene). My only complaint was the wierd sexualization of Lili's crossdressing near the start

2. If you feel it was flawed, how so?

Gerda felt underdeveloped to me in a sense, considering there are numerous ways she could have been played that would have enhanced the experience of them as a couple, it just felt the final act rushed through the transition part and then blasted to the ending. It cuts off where anyone who read up on the history of Lili and Gerda would know that the implied happy ending wasnt to be. Also the whole Hans wanting to get in Gerda's pants felt tacked on.

There was also the fact that the gender dysphoria is played up a bit as a sexual thing at the start, but overall I felt it was acceptable for the film's run time and a bold step in the right direction, even if it was on wobbly footing

3. Do you think the film will harm or help public perceptions of transgender people, particularly cis people who may know little about gender and identity?

I have to say from my cisgendered friends perspective, they said they found it more accessible a film to understanding the subject from a trans persons perspective and one of them actually said it made them want to look into the subject more. From my perspective if it's got even a small number of viewers to do that, it's a plus.

4. How do you feel about a cis actor portraying the lead character?

It's called acting for a reason: Straight actors have played gay characters, gay actors have played straight characters. I've seen tumblr rants about how it is erasure but I personally felt that isnt the case. Eddie did a superb job and clearly did their research on the matter for the portrayal, and I cant think of any other cis or trans actors to my knowledge who could have pulled that off.

Plus, lets say I was a post op transwoman and was asked to play the role: How would I be happy going back to a male gender presentation for the first hour of the film? It wouldn't seem fair to me to make someone go into a gender role they transitioned out of just for the film.

to my knowledge as well, Lili wouldn't have had access to hormones to feminize herself to what some people I have encountered would want.

Overall, I thoroughly enjoyed it, my peers considered it a thought provoking watch (which is how we would want people to question their views and come to understand the subject more) and in itself an enjoyable watch (though mine was emotionally jarred with dysphoria triggers), but I came away emotionally fullfilled in a full circle sort of way. It may have been a bit art-over-substance in parts, and could have done with another 20-30 minutes in the final act to not rush so much, but I am pleased with it, especially since it could have been just an erotica potentially