Is There Such A Thing As Racial Dysphoria?

[Tristyn]

I apologize if I posted this in the wrong section. To be honest, I wasn't too sure where in the forum this should go. I suppose I chose non-binary because what I am about to discuss is very unique and perhaps ambiguous.

Anyways, we always talk about gender dysphoria and body dysphoria. But are there more types of dysphoria than for gender and the body? Can people be dysphoric about their own race? For instance, have disgust about bodily features that are particular to their own ethnicity? If so, can it be treated the way transsexuals treat gender dysphoria through transition? I'm saying, would it be beneficial to transition to the race you identified with to alleviate racial dysphoria the way gender dysphoria can be alleviated? Of course, I am speaking hypothetically here because I know science hasn't advanced enough to modify genes in such a way, but I think through gene therapy this could be very possible in the near future.

I know this is a very sensitive topic for alot of members here and I will do my best not to step on nobodies toes! So, what are your thoughts?

[Janine]

I think it's entirely possible. People can hate their bodies for a myriad of reasons, so it would be no shock if race were one of them. It sounds heartbreaking though. We know most people hate us being transgender, but transracial? I can hear the wheels turning in the head of every hater everywhere. Still, hate is not strong enough to stop us, so why should it stop anyone who is transracial, assuming such a condition exists?

[Tristyn]

I think it's entirely possible. People can hate their bodies for a myriad of reasons, so it would be no shock if race were one of them. It sounds heartbreaking though. We know most people hate us being transgender, but transracial? I can hear the wheels turning in the head of every hater everywhere. Still, hate is not strong enough to stop us, so why should it stop anyone who is transracial, assuming such a condition exists?

I like that phrase you invented, "transracial." I used to think I was transracial. To be honest, growing up, I wanted to be and felt like a White boy instead of a Black boy. If that even makes sense. I never had the chance to tell anyone that, not even my therapist. I don't really feel that way now, but I have a huge issue with the stereotypes that follow me like nasty, McDonald's flatulence. I have no idea if anyone else here feels or felt that way. I saw talk shows in the past, like Montel, where this one woman wished she was a different race. So I know this condition probably does exist but like transsexualism is highly unusual. It even turns wheels in my own head. Something to really think about. You know?

[King Malachite]

I believe that racial dysphoria is a legitimate thing.  Being a black guy myself, I've felt like I was a white guy/wanted to be a white guy (or Japanese if I'm watching anime, lol).  My high school art teacher even told me that I'm a white old confederate guy trapped inside of a black girl's body.  It's not something that I focus on too much now, but I guess if one knew of my "ideal" wardrobe that I'd like convert to one day (flannels, vests suspenders....more "Amish-type" looking clothes), then I guess someone could think that wouldn't be "typical" of someone that would look like me. 

However, being a biological female gets me more down than my race.  I'd gladly be a black cis male over a white cis woman any day. 

[Tristyn]

S'up Malachite? I didn't know you were black until now. To be honest, I always thought you were perhaps white myself. Sounds to me you still have the transracial feelings but you don't succumb to them. Does it interfere with your life at all? If so, maybe you should seek out therapy. I really want to bring my mild transracialism up to my therapist. Lol, I felt the same way about wishing I was Japanese too from watching anime and playing visual novels. I even attempt to teach myself Japanese, both written and spoken!

And yes I would rather be a black cis male than a white cis woman also! 

[diane 2606]

I'm an old White lady who was picketing for racial equality in the early 1960s (so you know if I write something that reads as disrespectful, that's not my intent).

I have no doubt racial dysphoria is real. Consider all the Whites who "act Black," (i.e., talk and act Hip Hop—derogatory term: "wigger"). Given the choice, I think they'd probably opt to remain White due to it being the default race in the US. Then there are "Oreo cookies" (please, no disrespect intended), who are Black, but act White. However, King Malachite's observation that he'd rather be a Black male than a White woman is really interesting. Is that racial dysphoria or gender dysphoria? On the surface, I'd guess guess gender trumps race, but not by a lot. For what it's worth, if I was Black I'd rather be a woman.

I think dividing people by skin color sucks. We're so much more than melanin. There's a cultural divide that's widening, both sides are to blame, and I find it devastating. Throughout my life I've had wonderful friends who are Black, White, and Asian. How we presented themselves has been largely, but not exclusively, defined by culture. It never seemed to matter.

I'd ask both Kings, how much does the culture of life in the US effect your dysphoria? Cops kill Blacks for no reason other than being Black. Hell, I'd want to be White too.

[King Malachite]

S'up Malachite? I didn't know you were black until now. To be honest, I always thought you were perhaps white myself. Sounds to me you still have the transracial feelings but you don't succumb to them. Does it interfere with your life at all? If so, maybe you should seek out therapy. I really want to bring my mild transracialism up to my therapist. Lol, I felt the same way about wishing I was Japanese too from watching anime and playing visual novels. I even attempt to teach myself Japanese, both written and spoken!

And yes I would rather be a black cis male than a white cis woman also! 

Lol yeah I get that a lot (oh don't get me started on those visual novels!  I'm starting to learn certain phrases in them and say them in my daily life, lol!).  You're right though in that perhaps I do have transracial feelings, but I don't succumb to them.  It just seems like one more thing out of my control that I'd have to stress about. However, I'd be lying if I said that it didn't still have an effect in my life, on a superficial level at least, like wanting anime character tattoos, or going for a "skater" style look (another look I'm interested in) with the long flowing hair, etc.  It gets me down slightly from time to time, but it doesn't keep me down because I know that race really isn't my "ultimate" barrier to these things.   I'm not going to tat my body up unless it's medical tattooing (for religious reasons, and the fact that I just don't like needles), and skinny jeans wouldn't look good on a fat guy like myself, and I don't have the money for hospital bills to be skating and breaking bones.  I'll stick to skateboarding on video games lol, but I'd definitely bring up transracialism to your therapist if you can

@diane I'd say that culture would probably play a huge part of racial dysphoria, in that, if the culture had more "tolerance" and were a bit more "diverse" then the dysphoria could be lessened.  Since I haven't transitioned, I cannot comment on how living as a black guy in society is, only that of a black female, which I find that society is a bit more forgiving to.

[Tristyn]

I'm an old White lady who was picketing for racial equality in the early 1960s (so you know if I write something that reads as disrespectful, that's not my intent).

I have no doubt racial dysphoria is real. Consider all the Whites who "act Black," (i.e., talk and act Hip Hop—derogatory term: "wigger"). Given the choice, I think they'd probably opt to remain White due to it being the default race in the US. Then there are "Oreo cookies" (please, no disrespect intended), who are Black, but act White. However, King Malachite's observation that he'd rather be a Black male than a White woman is really interesting. Is that racial dysphoria or gender dysphoria? On the surface, I'd guess guess gender trumps race, but not by a lot. For what it's worth, if I was Black I'd rather be a woman.

I think dividing people by skin color sucks. We're so much more than melanin. There's a cultural divide that's widening, both sides are to blame, and I find it devastating. Throughout my life I've had wonderful friends who are Black, White, and Asian. How we presented themselves has been largely, but not exclusively, defined by culture. It never seemed to matter.

I'd ask both Kings, how much does the culture of life in the US effect your dysphoria? Cops kill Blacks for no reason other than being Black. Hell, I'd want to be White too.

I appreciate that feedback, Diane. But its more than skin color that causes me great strife with my racial bodily features. And I am beginning to appreciate some of them. I don't believe anyone can act like a race. Again, a huge stereotype. I used to get picked on so bad in school with black kids more than the white ones because I was deemed as what you would call "oreo cookies." I also think they were very jealous in my ability as a student. My teachers always had a knack for putting me on a pedestal against my will. -.-

Yes, you are right that Black people really do face a heck of alot more strife than White people. That is a given, my friend. So in a sense, really should not be all that surprising that I sometimes would rather be a white man vs. a black man.

Lol yeah I get that a lot (oh don't get me started on those visual novels!  I'm starting to learn certain phrases in them and say them in my daily life, lol!).  You're right though in that perhaps I do have transracial feelings, but I don't succumb to them.  It just seems like one more thing out of my control that I'd have to stress about. However, I'd be lying if I said that it didn't still have an effect in my life, on a superficial level at least, like wanting anime character tattoos, or going for a "skater" style look (another look I'm interested in) with the long flowing hair, etc.  It gets me down slightly from time to time, but it doesn't keep me down because I know that race really isn't my "ultimate" barrier to these things.   I'm not going to tat my body up unless it's medical tattooing (for religious reasons, and the fact that I just don't like needles), and skinny jeans wouldn't look good on a fat guy like myself, and I don't have the money for hospital bills to be skating and breaking bones.  I'll stick to skateboarding on video games lol, but I'd definitely bring up transracialism to your therapist if you can

@diane I'd say that culture would probably play a huge part of racial dysphoria, in that, if the culture had more "tolerance" and were a bit more "diverse" then the dysphoria could be lessened.  Since I haven't transitioned, I cannot comment on how living as a black guy in society is, only that of a black female, which I find that society is a bit more forgiving to.

You know, it's funny you like the skater look. My step mom and my sisters criticized me for wearing DC skater shoes because they are "white people" shoes. That's like the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. Shoes are shoes to me, unless they are for women, those I would stay far away from, lol. Yeah man, I get lost in those visual novels and anime. Right now I am playing one called AIR. It was just recently translated. It's a classic and I have been dying to play it and finally I can. If it weren't for school, I would be playing that 24/7 right now. LOL.
So out of curiosity, King Malachite, do you live as a man even though you aren't on  T  yet? And yeah I totally agree with you that society is far nicer to black women than they ever are to black men. I sometimes feel afraid at what life will become once I physically transition over to a black man.

[suzifrommd]

Can people be dysphoric about their own race?

I think people can be profoundly unhappy about any aspect of their physical being.

Is that dysphoria?

Sure, but it is a very different thing from gender dysphoria, where the gender wired into our brains is different from our body sex. There's no evidence that race is wired into the brain. I.e. that there is any such thing as a white person's brain vs. a black person's brain.

[King Malachite]

I appreciate that feedback, Diane. But its more than skin color that causes me great strife with my racial bodily features. And I am beginning to appreciate some of them. I don't believe anyone can act like a race. Again, a huge stereotype. I used to get picked on so bad in school with black kids more than the white ones because I was deemed as what you would call "oreo cookies." I also think they were very jealous in my ability as a student. My teachers always had a knack for putting me on a pedestal against my will. -.-

Yes, you are right that Black people really do face a heck of alot more strife than White people. That is a given, my friend. So in a sense, really should not be all that surprising that I sometimes would rather be a white man vs. a black man.

You know, it's funny you like the skater look. My step mom and my sisters criticized me for wearing DC skater shoes because they are "white people" shoes. That's like the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. Shoes are shoes to me, unless they are for women, those I would stay far away from, lol. Yeah man, I get lost in those visual novels and anime. Right now I am playing one called AIR. It was just recently translated. It's a classic and I have been dying to play it and finally I can. If it weren't for school, I would be playing that 24/7 right now. LOL.
So out of curiosity, King Malachite, do you live as a man even though you aren't on  T  yet? And yeah I totally agree with you that society is far nicer to black women than they ever are to black men. I sometimes feel afraid at what life will become once I physically transition over to a black man.

Haha, I know, right?  She sounds a lot like my mother when I used to be in to heavy metal/rock a lot.  She'd call it "white people people" and didn't want any part of it.  I purchased Stein's Gate for my PS Vita, and I will probably start to play that soon.  I wish there were more translated visual novels for the PS Vita.  Sadly, I still present as a female to the world.  To be honest, I don't think I'll ever fully transition.  I think I may just get top surgery, and stop there.  I'm just too lazy to make the full leap right now, but I fully agree with you: I get concerned thinking about what would happen if I did transition.

[Asche]

I think people can be profoundly unhappy about any aspect of their physical being.

Is that dysphoria?

Sure, but it is a very different thing from gender dysphoria, where the gender wired into our brains is different from our body sex. There's no evidence that race is wired into the brain. I.e. that there is any such thing as a white person's brain vs. a black person's brain.

To be more precise, some people believe that our gender is wired into our brains.  But, like the "gay gene" theory, it's close enough to what many people want to believe that it's all too likely that we're seeing what we want to see.

What I do know is that different people have different "natures", and those differences are visible from the time a baby is born.  In my case, my nature really, really did not fit what boys were supposed to be at all.  That, plus the way the people around me tried to beat me into that shape and called me names and ostracized me for being the way I was, made me hate and fear masculinity and anything that reminded me of it.  Like my all too male-looking body.

So, in my case, society's idea of "male" was my biggest problem.  So big that I have no idea whether, if I'd grown up in a world where male children who were like me were (also?) seen as "normal," I would be happy with my body.  (Or at least not revolted by it.)

I think someone can have that experience around race.  Race is a social construct, like gender, and if you suffer enough for being assigned to a particular racial/gender category, it's easy to blame the part of yourself that gets you assigned to that category for your misery and hate it.

[Asche]

I used to get picked on so bad in school with black kids more than the white ones because I was deemed as what you would call "oreo cookies."

Reminds me of "not trans enough."

[Kylo]

I suppose a person can be dysphoric about anything.

Wanting to be a different race though - has to be different than the trans gender dysphoria and we probably shouldn't group it with. I'd think that was down more to socialization or issues of community than some hard-wired problem of being a different race's brain in the wrong body. Science has found physical evidence for trans phenomena and why those feelings might exist. But the talk I see about racial dysphoria usually comes with social issues. Which makes me think it's more of a desire than a physiological manifestation. If a person covets being of a different race because of bullying or ostracism or because another race is privileged over one's own in the social construct, that's a social problem with logical roots that may then become a psychological problem.

[SophiaBleu]

Dropped in to say that I have had these feelings since I was a kid.  It is a really touchy subject and one that black folk and white folk alike hate talking about. I told my wife I feel like a mid-20's white lesbian. She laughed at me, but not in a mean way. My wife is pretty cool.  Anyway, just wanted to mention that I have been dealing with this for a long time.

[BreeD]

A fascinating discussion on a topic I have never even considered, probably much like a broad swath of the general population never considers gender dysphoria.  I find myself agreeing with T.K.G.W how racial dysphoria might be more socially rooted.  That of course doesn't lessen the impact on one's life or make it healthy for a person to feel alienated.  Anyone feeling such a thing racial, gender or otherwise would likely benefit from therapy (I know I have). 

[Felix]

I think it's a real thing for sure. I've spent most of my life in majority black areas and while I've always felt comfortably white I have met several white people who obviously felt black. I don't know if that was the result of being raised in the foster care system or growing up in black ghettos or whatever, but it was a real thing however it happened.

[Tristyn]

I suppose a person can be dysphoric about anything.

Wanting to be a different race though - has to be different than the trans gender dysphoria and we probably shouldn't group it with. I'd think that was down more to socialization or issues of community than some hard-wired problem of being a different race's brain in the wrong body. Science has found physical evidence for trans phenomena and why those feelings might exist. But the talk I see about racial dysphoria usually comes with social issues. Which makes me think it's more of a desire than a physiological manifestation. If a person covets being of a different race because of bullying or ostracism or because another race is privileged over one's own in the social construct, that's a social problem with logical roots that may then become a psychological problem.

I agree with ya, man. I think the whole "racial dysphoria" thing probably could be seen as a social problem vs. a psychological problem like actual GID. Thing is, I feel dysphoric racial wise mainly due to actual features of my body that are specific to my race (kinky hair, bigger lips, bigger nose, e.t.c.). I feel literal disgust with some of the features just like how I feel disgust towards my female bodily features that I wish were not there. Why should race be any different? :/ Race is as much of an identity as gender.

[Peep]

i think 'transracial' is already a word that refers to children who are adopted by parents of a different race/ ethnicity than them. But it has started to be applied to people like rachael delozeal in the sense of 'transitioning' from white to black.

I don't want to tell people how they feel, but could it be that the discomfort that people feel is just from institutionalised racism rather than any innate sense of race - that society has made them feel uncomfortable about their race? The nasty stereotypes are social constructions in a way that "male" and "female" bodies aren't. Similarly the particular physical traits such as hair texture are things that have historically been culturally looked down upon, like how black women are often photoshopped to be paler to conform with a eurocentric beauty standard, and in some places were legally obliged to cover their natural hair... leading to a cultural feeling that their hair or bodies are 'wrong' or out of place?

There's also body dysmorphic disorder that isn't specific to race or gender, but to general physical appearance, which could cover some elements of what people feel like not being dark or light enough etc

for example i'm white (the kind of Scottish white that doesn't even tan, only burns :D) and i've always disliked my complexion because of the pinkness/ blotchiness but i don't feel that means i dislike my race in that i've never actively desired to be a different one or identified as non white (i'm not about to go out into the streets and celebrate being white either ._. ) i just have negative feelings about a part of my body that has racial connotations

[Kylo]

I agree with ya, man. I think the whole "racial dysphoria" thing probably could be seen as a social problem vs. a psychological problem like actual GID. Thing is, I feel dysphoric racial wise mainly due to actual features of my body that are specific to my race (kinky hair, bigger lips, bigger nose, e.t.c.). I feel literal disgust with some of the features just like how I feel disgust towards my female bodily features that I wish were not there. Why should race be any different? :/ Race is as much of an identity as gender.

Yeah... I guess the mental toll of feeling this way can manifest much the same ways as GD does. I'm not sure if it's got the same mechanism, maybe someone's done a study on it somewhere.

I can't say I feel bad for looking white, but I have some relatives from Vietnam and Thailand respectively in my tree and I've always felt they looked better. Skin for example - if I have a skin episode it's hella visible on my sunstarved face. White people don't age very well compared to most other races in my opinion. My white relatives all look really rough in old age compared to the Asian ones.

It's a passing thing for me though, I don't feel as if some things I dislike about myself are down to race but just my own personal fugliness and I'm not too bothered about my appearance anymore. I do wish I was better-looking (who doesn't I guess lol), but I the trans problem outweighs it so much I barely notice my face.