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Effect of estradiol on prostate

Started by Lucie, March 16, 2016, 04:06:32 PM

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0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

KayXo

Not at all. I am saying that cancers, and other physical problems occur more as we age, because, possibly, of these reasons BUT HRT may actually help body be more resilient, healthier, age slower and live longer.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Lucie

Quote from: KayXo on March 17, 2016, 09:06:23 AM
Not at all. I am saying that cancers, and other physical problems occur more as we age, because, possibly, of these reasons BUT HRT may actually help body be more resilient, healthier, age slower and live longer.

Ah okay, I am reassured !  ;)
Actually, though this is not my primary goal I do hope that HRT will help me to stay healthy.
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KayXo

I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Lucie

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Dena

Quote from: Lucie on March 17, 2016, 03:54:06 AM
A friend of mine who did not want vaginoplasty has chosen orchiectomy for getting rid of AA (this surgery is practised by some surgeons in my country). She is quite satisfied of her choice. So yes, orchiectomy might be the right answer for me. I just have to accept the idea that I'll have to keep my male genitals until the end of my life...
An orchiectomy cost very little and if done correctly, will not interfere with SRS at a latter date. Now the medical treatment in your country may be different and you may be able to only chose one, but it might be possible to state the orchiectomy was done for the treatment of cancer leaving the door open for SRS.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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Lucie

Quote from: Dena on March 17, 2016, 03:54:37 PM
An orchiectomy cost very little and if done correctly, will not interfere with SRS at a latter date. Now the medical treatment in your country may be different and you may be able to only chose one, but it might be possible to state the orchiectomy was done for the treatment of cancer leaving the door open for SRS.

That would signify that I have been treated for a prostate cancer, which I hope will never be !
Besides that I am not sure that social insurance will accept to fund an orchiectomy for treating a BPH...  :-\
So if I plan to undergo an orchiectomy and later a SRS, I will have to pay myself the full cost of the orchiectomy. But as you tell it the latter should not be very expensive.
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WendyA

Quote from: Lucie on March 17, 2016, 04:44:18 AM
I assume that the urologist will prescribe a PSA dosage. As for the digital rectal exam, I don't like that at all but if it's necessary I will submit to his finger.  :(

In regards to prostate cancer screening neither the PSA or DRE are recommended by the Canadian Task Force for Preventive Health Care.  The US Preventive Services Task Force does not recommend the PSA and are currently undergoing a review of their recommendations.  Here are some links of interest.

http://canadiantaskforce.ca/ctfphc-guidelines/2014-prostate-cancer/clinician-faq/

http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/Page/Document/UpdateSummaryFinal/prostate-cancer-screening?ds=1&s=prostate%20cancer

http://www.cochrane.org/CD004720/PROSTATE_screening-for-prostate-cancer

http://www.ornishspectrum.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive_Lifestyle_Changes_and_Prostate_Cancer.pdf

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/prostate-cancer/
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Lucie

Thanks a lot Wendy for the links.
These documents are of high interest to me, they will help me in discussing with the urologist.
The three first ones are clearly against prostate cancer screening.
The fourth one is also quite interesting since it discusses the relationship between lifestyle and prostate cancer (I have not yet read it entirely).
From what I have read the last document advocates a vegetarian diet for preventing prostate cancer ; however it does not provide scientific references for what is asserted (unless I missed them).
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KayXo

Quote from: WendyA on March 17, 2016, 10:03:21 PM
In regards to prostate cancer screening neither the PSA or DRE are recommended by the Canadian Task Force for Preventive Health Care.  The US Preventive Services Task Force does not recommend the PSA and are currently undergoing a review of their recommendations.  Here are some links of interest.

http://canadiantaskforce.ca/ctfphc-guidelines/2014-prostate-cancer/clinician-faq/

http://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/Page/Document/UpdateSummaryFinal/prostate-cancer-screening?ds=1&s=prostate%20cancer

http://www.cochrane.org/CD004720/PROSTATE_screening-for-prostate-cancer

Because transsexual women's hormonal milieu differs significantly from that of men, these findings, I think, should be interpreted with caution as there is a chance those same findings would not have been found in our population. Perhaps, a high PSA level in transsexual women (which should be the opposite of what we find) results in less false-positives and/or prostate cancers in transsexual women are more aggressive, advance at a quicker pace, etc. I agree that those recommendations make sense in the context of men, the evidence seems solid.

Quotehttp://www.ornishspectrum.com/wp-content/uploads/Intensive_Lifestyle_Changes_and_Prostate_Cancer.pdf

The problem I see is this:

1) In the intro, it is stated that associations have been found between the intake of certain vitamins, minerals, foods and low prostate cancer risk and also between parts of the world where low fat, plant diet are predominantly eaten and risk of prostate cancer. Any good scientist will tell you that no causation can be inferred from associations as there is a multitude of variables involved, not controlled for and thus we cannot clearly point at which variable or variables are indeed responsible for reducing risk. We just don't know! Nothing for certain can be inferred from this.
2) The intervention was multi-faceted in that many new changes were implemented. Whether the results can be attributed to eating more fruits, taking more vitamin C, taking more fish oil, participating in a support group, doing more exercise, meditating, etc, we just don't know. Too many variables were manipulated. So, again, absolutely nothing certain or useful can be inferred from this study. If instead, they had focused on one variable, while controlling for others, results would have been more revealing and suggestive.

Quotehttp://nutritionfacts.org/topics/prostate-cancer/

And indeed, as Lucy correctly states, there are no scientific references that support statements made on that site. And most likely, if there are in fact studies that supposedly support these statements, they are the type that show associations and not causation, so not convincing at all.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Lucie

Quote from: KayXo on March 18, 2016, 09:35:26 AM
Because transsexual women's hormonal milieu differs significantly from that of men, these findings, I think, should be interpreted with caution as there is a chance those same findings would not have been found in our population. Perhaps, a high PSA level in transsexual women (which should be the opposite of what we find) results in less false-positives and/or prostate cancers in transsexual women are more aggressive, advance at a quicker pace, etc. I agree that those recommendations make sense in the context of men, the evidence seems solid.

That makes sense. It must be taken in account in the discussion I'll have with my urologist.

QuoteThe problem I see is this:

1) In the intro, it is stated that associations have been found between the intake of certain vitamins, minerals, foods and low prostate cancer risk and also between parts of the world where low fat, plant diet are predominantly eaten and risk of prostate cancer. Any good scientist will tell you that no causation can be inferred from associations as there is a multitude of variables involved, not controlled for and thus we cannot clearly point at which variable or variables are indeed responsible for reducing risk. We just don't know! Nothing for certain can be inferred from this.
2) The intervention was multi-faceted in that many new changes were implemented. Whether the results can be attributed to eating more fruits, taking more vitamin C, taking more fish oil, participating in a support group, doing more exercise, meditating, etc, we just don't know. Too many variables were manipulated. So, again, absolutely nothing certain or useful can be inferred from this study. If instead, they had focused on one variable, while controlling for others, results would have been more revealing and suggestive.

Again I can only agree with Kay on that point. Correlation does not imply causality when numerous variables are involved, especially when some of them are hidden or unknown.
In fact I still have to read the relevant article. The title sounded appealing, but...
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KayXo

To elaborate on prostate cancer screening

"Two large randomised studies tested whether
screening reduces prostate cancer mortality and, while
the US trial reported no benefit,1
the European (ERSPC)
trial noted a significant reduction in mortality.2"

"In The Lancet, Fritz Schroder and colleagues3
now report 13-year mortality data from the ERSPC study.
At 9 years, screening appeared to reduce prostate cancer
mortality by 15% (rate ratio 0·85, 95% CI 0·70–1·03);
this reduction was 22% at 11 years (0·78, 0·66–0·91)
and 21% at 13 years (0·79, 0·69–0·91). Importantly,
the number needed to invite to be screened to prevent
one death fell from 1410 at 9 years to 781 at 13 years;
the number needed to detect cancer fell from 48 to 27,
showing continued improvement in the absolute effect
of screening."

"Despite this finding, present prostate-specific
antigen (PSA)-based screening is imperfect."

"It is this trio of drawbacks (overdetection,
treatment complications, and disease progression) that
leads to the uncertainty about the role of screening."

"An improved understanding of prostate cancer might
tip the balance towards increased use of screening."

"If most of the patients with low-risk prostate cancer in the
ERSPC intervention group (60% of all the cancers diagnosed)
were managed with active surveillance, the side-effects of treatment
would be substantially reduced."

"To further mitigate the disadvantages of screening, it is
now possible to use screening results to counsel patients
who would generally receive a biopsy recommendation
regarding their individual trade-off s of prostate
biopsy: a potential benefit of detection of high-grade
cancer, allowing for treatment and reduction in risk
of cancer death versus a potential risk of detection of
low-grade cancers that are most commonly indolent,
for which treatment has few benefits but considerable
potential side-effects"

"We have noted that, when such information is provided
to patients, fewer men who are apt to be overdetected
will choose biopsy. This information, coupled with new
biomarkers that are focused on detection of potentially
lethal disease, improves the benefit–risk ratio of prostate
cancer screening."

"Because the median follow-up from diagnosis of
prostate cancer was 6·4 years for the intervention group
and 4·3 years in the control group, and because high-risk
disease often requires 12–15 years to cause death,
we would not be surprised if the benefit of screening
becomes more apparent with longer follow-up."


To quickly resume, the benefit of PSA screening may become more apparent with time and disadvantages of screening may be reduced by undertaking certain measures (active surveillance, no biopsies with low risk factors) so that benefits of screening may outweigh drawbacks. So, conclusions by these task forces may be indeed too quickly drawn up. 

For these and other reasons mentioned above, I still think it would be in our best interest to do screening, after the age of 60 (when prostate cancers have been found in transsexual women), perhaps even before, after age 50, to be on the safe side, as the majority of prostate cancers in men occurs after this age.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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KayXo

And I, just now, came across this!  :D

Andrologia. 2014 Dec;46(10):1156-60.
Prostate cancer incidence in orchidectomised male-to-female transsexual persons treated with oestrogens.
Gooren L1, Morgentaler A.


« When diagnosed in this population, there appears to be a tendency for PCa to behave aggressively. Prostate monitoring should be considered in these individuals beginning at age 50 years."

They agree with my conclusions.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Lucie

Quote from: KayXo on March 18, 2016, 04:35:32 PM
And I, just now, came across this!  :D

Andrologia. 2014 Dec;46(10):1156-60.
Prostate cancer incidence in orchidectomised male-to-female transsexual persons treated with oestrogens.
Gooren L1, Morgentaler A.


« When diagnosed in this population, there appears to be a tendency for PCa to behave aggressively. Prostate monitoring should be considered in these individuals beginning at age 50 years."

They agree with my conclusions.

Wow, this is not reassuring at all. Unfortunately the full text is not freely available.
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Lucie

Quote from: KayXo on March 17, 2016, 02:37:52 PM
Keep us posted. :)

Today I had my appointment with my urologist. Total disappointment. I think he is not the right interlocutor for taking care/charge of my BPH, taking in account my HRT at same time. I have to find another one.
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KayXo

I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
  •  

Lucie

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WendyA

Quote from: Lucie on March 18, 2016, 06:58:04 AMFrom what I have read the last document advocates a vegetarian diet for preventing prostate cancer ; however it does not provide scientific references for what is asserted (unless I missed them).

Yes Lucie you missed them because the page I linked to was simply an index page for the topic.  Each video linked from that article is meticulously cited by simply clicking the Sources Cited button next to the video.  You won't find many sites out there that do as good as job at citing sources.

Quote from: KayXo on March 18, 2016, 09:35:26 AM
Quote
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/prostate-cancer/

And indeed, as Lucy correctly states, there are no scientific references that support statements made on that site. And most likely, if there are in fact studies that supposedly support these statements, they are the type that show associations and not causation, so not convincing at all.

As I explained to Lucie above this is one of the best cited sites on the web.

He often cites multiple studies.  Many of them you may not like and many of them will meet your approval, but the bottom line is that he usually evaluates and presents what would be considered the best current science based on a preponderance of the evidence.

That said nothing on his page may have any direct bearing on what Lucie is facing, I just wanted to give her as much info as possible.
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Lucie

Thank you again Wendy for the links you have provided.
As for the site nutritionfacts.org my problem is the way information is presented. In my opinion videos are not the best media for providing and commenting factual scientific data. It sounds to me too much as a show. As regards the sources cited, sorry I had missed the button next each video. But, as Kay has said, these sources mostly show correlation between observed phenomenons but lack convincing demonstration of a true causal relationship between them.
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