Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

North Carolina Governor Signs Repeal of LGBT Protections

Started by traci_k, March 24, 2016, 06:42:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sydney_NYC

Quote from: Amy1988 on March 25, 2016, 10:37:35 PM
From my interpretation the law only repeals the city ordinance but does not contain language actually prohibiting transgendered people from using bathrooms consistent with their gender identity.

Unfortunately it does restrict bathrooms statewide to biological sex which according to the law is determined by a person birth certificate. You can read the finalized version here.
Sydney





Born - 1970
Came Out To Self/Wife - Sept-21-2013
Started therapy - Oct-15-2013
Laser and Electrolysis - Oct-24-2013
HRT - Dec-12-2013
Full time - Mar-15-2014
Name change  - June-23-2014
GCS - Nov-2-2017 (Dr Rachel Bluebond-Langner)


  •  

suzifrommd

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on March 25, 2016, 10:26:42 PM
This law is next to impossible to enforce.

I disagree. True, for the passable adult transwoman, it will have little impact. But for non-passable people, all sorts of harassment becomes possible. Security guards can prevent us from using the restroom, we can find cops waiting for us outside when we're done.

For children, it's devastating. Schools have lots of ways of enforcing discipline and students will have no recourse.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

Dee Marshall

Worse still if we try to follow it. I posed the following to a friend who tried to defend the idea (just because he has a habit of being "devil's advocate" I think):

Actually, since you've turned my light-hearted post into a mishegosh, let's look at it from the other side. I've gotten confused looks from people walking into a MENS' room in the past year. So, say I'm traveling through NC and steel myself to wear men's clothing (ask (*Sweetie*) about the panic attack I had wearing a suit on a cruise a year and a half ago) and enter a mens' room. I could still be arrested and detained. Do you suggest I should travel with my birth certificate? "Papers, please", anyone?
April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!
  •  

OCAnne

I do carry a certified copy of my birth certificate with correct gender...don't know why since I can lift my skirt if it becomes an issue.  Which is a great reason not to wear panties.  Can't wait to pull that off with the TSA!
My friend carry's a copy in glove box of her car just in case she's arrested.  Guess she does not want to get thrown in with the guys...not-sure why.  :P

Once again how will they enforce this law?  Outside bathroom: 'Mom that looks like a man, why honey?  She's too tall.  OK let call the police.'  Police: 'Can I see some ID?  It indicates you are female but in my opinion you look too masculine to be a woman.  Would you summit to a genital search or I'll have to arrest you.'  Why?  Probable cause.

EOM
'My Music, Much Money, Many Moons'
YTMV (Your Transsexualism May Vary)
  •  

AnonyMs

I've seen women in the mens bathroom at the new years Sydney fireworks. The lines for the women's get too long. No one says anything, it more funny than anything for the guys.

How would that work in the USA?
  •  

Deborah

Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
  •  

IdontEven

To get a good idea of how things are here, just look at women the same way you look at small children; they're weak, vulnerable, and need to be protected. Sometimes they even need to be told what to do for their own good. If there's a perceived threat, particularly to white women, the rednecks who consider themselves to be knights in shining armor will do whatever they have to in order to protect them. That group includes members of the police, legislature, etc.; they're everywhere, all the way up to the highest echelons of power.

To be trans-feminine is to threaten not just the hyper-masculine identity of the Southern Male (and sexuality if you're attractive), but to be a threat to the innocent, fragile women.

Being trans-masculine is like a kid playing pretend dress-up; it will make some of the men uncomfortable, but they'd never admit to it because to do so would be weak. They would be threatened by what they consider to be a female, which is laughable in their eyes.

At least that's what I see. I used to think NC was a lot more progressive than all this, but I see an overwhelming amount of regressive mindset here these days. A lot of seemingly decent, reasonable people start espousing some really, really wrong-headed ideas if you probe them enough on politics or gender issues and stuff.

There are a lot of really awesome people too, but they're not the ones in charge.
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
  •  

Amy1988

What about a private business?  My employer in NC told me to use the women's bathroom.  So does the law apply to private business. 
  •  

Amy1988

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 26, 2016, 08:19:27 AM
I disagree. True, for the passable adult transwoman, it will have little impact. But for non-passable people, all sorts of harassment becomes possible. Security guards can prevent us from using the restroom, we can find cops waiting for us outside when we're done.

For children, it's devastating. Schools have lots of ways of enforcing discipline and students will have no recourse.

How long does it take to pee at the Quick Trip? Couple minutes.  By the time cops get there you're gone.  That's if they even bother to respond.  I mean talk about a low priority. 
  •  

Deborah

Quote from: Amy1988 on March 26, 2016, 11:18:11 AM
What about a private business?  My employer in NC told me to use the women's bathroom.  So does the law apply to private business.
Yes, if it employs more than 15 people.
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
  •  

Amy1988

  •  

Deborah

Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
  •  

Tessa James

While this situation is a sad and dangerous effort by some lawmakers in NC I am taking the longer term view.  Their knee jerk, fear and ignorance, rally the fundamentalists based reaction will ultimately backfire.  While this is blatant discrimination it furthers our visibility and our issues.  Much like Trumps free air time for being a jerk, this is a transgender awareness opportunity featuring a red herring.

I fully expect this rushed law will be challenged and may end up in the NC or federal Supreme Court where it will be struck down on many grounds.  Just look at what SCOTUS did for marriage.

We do need ENDA and the ERA and more and this is happening.  It is tragic that there will be harm done along the way as the rear guard fights the inevitability of our full and public acceptance.  Love and reason will triumph and trump the hate and discrimination so evident in the NC bill.  I have live through times when LGBTQ people were virtually all in the closet, when jim crow and racial segregation were the law and people in wheel chairs stayed home.

We can expect more coverage and outrage and opportunities for people to examine their own hearts and minds.  We must be there to explain the harm and real danger this discrimination represents.  People are awakening and it is no wonder that the fastest growing affiliation for religion is "none of the above."

This is a reflection of and supported by fundamentalist ideologues.  They are hoisting themselves on their own petards and ready for the roasting they richly deserve for such blatant hate.  BBQ sauce anyone ;D >:-)
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

Amy1988

Quote from: Deborah on March 26, 2016, 11:44:16 AM
Here it is: http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf


Sapere Aude

Ok I went and read the actual law namely 14-159.13 that qualifies a violation as (without authorization).  I have authorization from my employer to use the ladies room.  At the mall I guess I could get what a citation? since it's a class 3 misdemeanor?  But I pass so easy no one even notices me.
  •  

Tysilio

Quote from: IdontEvenBeing trans-masculine is like a kid playing pretend dress-up; it will make some of the men uncomfortable, but they'd never admit to it because to do so would be weak. They would be threatened by what they consider to be a female, which is laughable in their eyes.

I can tell you one thing. If I were to obey this law and start using the women's room, I can guarantee that those men would not want me peeing with their wives -- who would probably call the cops on me for being that (non-existent) pervy man who just says he feels like a woman that day.  I'm glad I'm not in NC, because I also don't think this would end well for me, despite the fact that I'd be obeying their damn law.


Quote from: Tessa JamesWhile this situation is a sad and dangerous effort by some lawmakers in NC I am taking the longer term view.  Their knee jerk, fear and ignorance, rally the fundamentalists based reaction will ultimately backfire.  While this is blatant discrimination it furthers our visibility and our issues.  Much like Trumps free air time for being a jerk, this is a transgender awareness opportunity featuring a red herring.

I fully expect this rushed law will be challenged and may end up in the NC or federal Supreme Court where it will be struck down on many grounds.  Just look at what SCOTUS did for marriage.

Tessa, I think (hope) that in the long run you're right. There will be a SCOTUS ruling in our favor sooner or later.

In the meantime, though, fighting this sort of thing state by state is a huge drain on our resources of time, money, and energy -- and there are so many things we could accomplish if we didn't have to be constantly fighting these hateful, reactionary attempts to go back to a status quo which never really existed in the first place.
Never bring an umbrella to a coyote fight.
  •  

Christy82

I don't post on here much, I am usually too scared to.  I will say something now.  I went to visit my mom in the upper part of South Carolina, and while I was there, saw what happened in NC.  My mom only lives about 45 min. from NC.  This has really upset me, as I know that the governor of South Carolina is right behind NC.  I don't know what I would do if this happened where I live.  It hits close to home, and I fear it WILL happen here soon.  I served my country the best I could given the circumstances, but I feel that I will be searching for a new country to call mine if this keeps up.

Anyone know how to apply for citizenship to Canada or any other country? (I would rather die than be a part of this one if it keeps going the direction it is.)
  •  

Sydney_NYC

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 26, 2016, 08:19:27 AM
I disagree. True, for the passable adult transwoman, it will have little impact. But for non-passable people, all sorts of harassment becomes possible. Security guards can prevent us from using the restroom, we can find cops waiting for us outside when we're done.

For children, it's devastating. Schools have lots of ways of enforcing discipline and students will have no recourse.

This has been going around that I thought was appropriate about this:

Think You Can Enforce House Bill 2? Take This Easy Quiz!
Sydney





Born - 1970
Came Out To Self/Wife - Sept-21-2013
Started therapy - Oct-15-2013
Laser and Electrolysis - Oct-24-2013
HRT - Dec-12-2013
Full time - Mar-15-2014
Name change  - June-23-2014
GCS - Nov-2-2017 (Dr Rachel Bluebond-Langner)


  •  

suzifrommd

Quote from: Sydney_NYC on March 27, 2016, 12:11:12 AM
This has been going around that I thought was appropriate about this:

Think You Can Enforce House Bill 2? Take This Easy Quiz!

Folks are thinking this sort of argument will convince the folks who want to erase us that bills like HB 2 are misguided.

I wonder if it will do exactly the opposite.

The purpose of the FRC pushing bills like these is precisely because they are sick of not being able to tell the men from the women. In their world view, men should be men and women should be women, and by effectively outlawing transgender identities, in their eyes they're making it harder for us to live our "lifestyle". Their thinking goes that if they make it hard enough (and they have only just begun their war against us), we'll decided to stop being what they consider sinful. IMO the claim that they're protecting "safety" is just a pretense.

In a sense they're right. If things get hot enough, some of us will slink back into the closet who otherwise would have transitioned.

So, while arguments like these may seem like they'll convince people that laws like HB2 are ill-advised, to many they are an illustration of the very reason they think laws like this are needed.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

Amy1988

Last night I went to the ladies room at the Quick Trip and walked right past two cops standing there talking.  They both smiled at me as I entered.  My heart was pounding in my chest I thought I was going to pass out.
  •