This really SUCKS

[Sara]

I just found out today that in Australia in order for you to have your marker changed on your birth certificate to female you must be affirmated as having the surgery by two specialists (not an issue) and you must be single. (WHAT?)

I am married and so does that mean that if I have srs/grs I would not be a woman because I have a ring on my finger( actually I have rings on my fingers but they are not wedding bands).

This really sucks, who gives them the right to say who can and cannot be a woman anyhow?

Sara.

[stephanie_craxford]

So are they saying that if a married preson were to have SRS/GRS they would have to get divorced before the gender maker is changed.  Don't they have same sex protections of any kind in Australia?  Very strange and really sucks if true.

Steph

[Sara]

Hi Stephanie, here is their quote "Who can apply
To be eligible to apply, you must be unmarried,18 years
of age or over (an adult) and have undergone sex
affirmation surgery".

So I guess they are saying you need to get divorced before you can claim you are a female.

You can change your name though!

Sara.

[Dennis]

Britain has the same requirement. I think it's currently being challenged. But it always takes the EU to tell Britain they're wrong, so it'll be a long time before it's change.

Thank god for Canada's stance on same sex marriages. Avoids absurdities like this.

Dennis

[Shelley]

If you think about it further Sara there is a reason, not a good one, but one nonetheless. It is against the law here for same sex marriage so unless that law changes the law on xhanging your monica must stay also.

As much as i hope it happens I don't think ousting Howard will change this either as the otherside won't change it either.

Shelley

[Sara]

Shelley, This is really wrong.

So you are supposed to say goodbye to your partner because you want to have a stupid bit of paper changed... well I have kinda thought about it but then I get so mad that the government can have rules like this. Its all about John Howard, what about his religious outlook (families first my arse).

What it does do is force people to lie and cheat the system by getting a divorce which is also another bit of crappy paper just to change your marker. Lies Lies and more Lies!!!!

Sara.

[Shelley]

I agree it is totally wrong and I don't see where these polititians get off making these decisions that seem so cruel to so many.

I have friends who are gay both male and female who can't marry and this is sad but even worse they can't leave their worldly goods to each other and family members can come in and take it.

Marriage provides more than an opportunity to share love. it provides protection for the remaining partner in the event of an untimely death. This safety is withheld from gay and TG couples.

Shelley

[Leigh]

Shelley, This is really wrong.

So you are supposed to say goodbye to your partner because you want to have a stupid bit of paper changed... well I have kinda thought about it but then I get so mad that the government can have rules like this. Its all about John Howard, what about his religious outlook (families first my arse).

What it does do is force people to lie and cheat the system by getting a divorce which is also another bit of crappy paper just to change your marker. Lies Lies and more Lies!!!!

Sara.

I you want the benefits of being female then you accept the consequences.  If two natal women who are lesbians cannot legally be married why should you have different rights?   

Leigh

[Dennis]

I think everyone here is saying the better option is to get over it and allow same sex marriages, Leigh. I don't think anyone's claiming different status because of being trans.

The other side of it though is do they allow you to marry a man once you've changed your gender marker? If not then they're treating trans people entirely differently from the rest of the population.

Dennis

[Sara]

I agree, you can change your gender to female from a male then marry someone but you cannot be married to a woman if you are a transgendered person who has had the chop or even if you are another female. The point is the Law SUCKS in Countries where they have these rules no matter what the gender. Accept it hell no, have to follow the law yes, unfortunately.

Sara.

[Peggiann]

Yes, it seems no matter where you live there is always someone trying to tell someone else how they should live, by what standards they should live, and where and when they should do things. The individuality and uniquenes of people is no longer when the law makers have there way. Freedoms are not really free no matter where you live. There is always a price to pay for what you want. Not fare and not always right.

This always changes my smiles to :-[,
Peggiann

[Sara]

Well said Peggiann.

Sara

[Leigh]

 you cannot be married to a woman if you are a transgendered person who has had the chop or even if you are another female.  

This is not true.

There are many cases where after surgery a couple has remained together legally married.  The are even instances where a post op has used their natal birth to demand and have a legal marriage.

My belief is that if a person transitons and wants to be recognised as female or male, they should have to live with all the restrictions and benefits that go with the appropiate gender.  No claiming genetic birth to marry.  If your place of residence does not recognise same sex marriages-oh well.  You wanted to be female/male, live with the consequesnces of transition.

Maybe this is a radical thought but if you claim it, live it!  Ya just cant pick and choose which part applies.

"I'm a woman, hear me roar" should be "hear me whine"

Leigh

[Sara]

Leigh, we girls do not whine, we go shopping.

Sara.

[Dennis]

I dunno, Leigh. I think it's bull->-bleeped-<- that any government should think they can say who marries whom (other than obvious genetic relations stuff). I also think asking someone to give up a marriage just because it turns out to be a same sex marriage and others aren't allowed to is the wrong route to take for glbt folks. I think the more same sex and trans-cis opposite sex and just mixed up gender marriages there are, the more we can point out the absurdity of restricted marriage.

Dennis

[rana]

There is no political advantage to Government (I am talking Australian, but you can substitute US, UK French etc) in leglislating for same sex marriages - lobby for it is not powerful, and face it - unpopular, too many people don't want same sex marriages & are affronted by them.  There is no money to be made or political advantage, so its not worth a Government risking being voted out of office by leglislating for the principle.
It is a result of living in a democracy I guess.  But - attitudes are changing, people are becoming more considerate & aware (I hope)

[Leigh]

Hey Dennis

A woman may marry a man but not another woman which is the identical treatment that natal women get, the opposite is also true for men.  My point is that if someone is a woman or man then euqal treatment should not be complained about.  To fully transition and then complain that you do not have the perogatives of the left behind gender is hypocrisy.

I also agree that love has nothing to do with government or religion.  Neither have any business telling me that I cannot marry another woman and receive the same bennies as a dysfunctional str8 couple.

If someone is not willing to take a public stand and fight for what is right then they get exactly what they deserve.

Leigh

[Shelley]

To fully transition and then complain that you do not have the perogatives of the left behind gender is hypocrisy.

Have to disagree here. The argument is not about what is in the domain of a paticular gender but the right of a person to partner with a person of their choice regardless of gender and with the same rights. For those transitioning and who were currently married the hypocracy of the situation is coming home to roost. This is something gay couples have had to live with.

To Rana, we are very closely aligned to the English legal system and while I accept what you say in terms of political advantage I don't see why we can't have it here(same sex marriage) as they do in England. I also think that although I do not personally feel the need to engage in marriage with someone of my gender I do have friends who are in that boat. The pain I see them experience makes me realise there are more affected then just the couples and that the lobby may be more than we realsie.

Shelley

[stephanie_craxford]

I don't need to stand up for Leigh Shelley but re-read her reply

To fully transition and then complain that you do not have the perogatives of the left behind gender is hypocrisy..

makes perfect sense.

Steph

[Shelley]

It does I agree the point I was making is that just because you transition this shouldn't be an issue. Making same sex marriage illegal is applying ones morals on others for no valid reason.

(Also I don't want to get the lash thing happening again.)

Shelley