There is no solution to this.....or maybe there is!

[JoanneB]

How can you live life not knowing what you are?

After almost 60 years on this rock I haven't a clue either beyond how I feel. What makes me happy, what brings me joy, what makes me sad. Trying with all my being to supress, ignore or otherwise deny that I am TG was about as fruitful as trying to deny I am an alcoholic. There is no 'Test' for that either.

My therapists seem unable to help me, not from lack of trying either.

There is only one person in the universe that can 'help'. The answers need to come from the inside and not some person of letters

I just want to be a normal guy! Why is that so much to ask for?

I had the same request for 40 years. Like wishing to wake up as a girl since the age of 4, being a normal guy didn't pan out either

[rosinstraya]

How can you live life not knowing what you are? It is torture for me. I always feel like I am an outsider, an observer. I'm in a glass bubble watching other people live their lives but I'm not included because I'm not real or something like that. I keep waiting to one day wake up and be told that I was part of some cosmic science project. I don't even know where to go for help. This website is great, but is very anonymous. It is just words on a screen. I know you are all real people that are trying to help, but I have never met any of you and you don't know me just like I don't know any of you.

My therapists seem unable to help me, not from lack of trying either. They are trying very hard, but so far nothing is working. I sent them an email earlier today telling them how angry I am at them for not telling me what is wrong with me and not wanting to help me. Who does that to the very people who are trying to help? It all just makes me think I am an awful person that has done something terrible in a past life (if there is such a thing) and now I am being punished for it.

I just want to be a normal guy! Why is that so much to ask for?

The title of your thread is "There is no solution to this" - in a way you have predicted and pre-determined the outcome of all of the discussion and toing and froing .

You continue to appear to believe that somehow you are alone in having this happen to you. The experiences of so many on this site would seem to prove that's not the case. You're not in a bubble, you're in conflict between what you feel the world wants/expects you to be and what your brain and body are continuing to tell you. Your understandable pain, depression and anxiety are -most likely - absolutely visible to those around you. Even though you've internalised it for so long.

Your anger at yourself for this internal struggle is now coming out in frustration and anger at the therapists who "refuse" to tell you "who" or ".what" you are. But: what would this change in your mindset if they actually gave you a yes/no answer? You already appear to have decided there's "no solution" to your situation - so would anything really change? You appear almost to want there to be continuing hurdles, roadblocks to there ever being a "solution".

You state again that you want to be a "normal guy" - and so you're back to square one. Because you simply wouldn't have spent the time and energy on all of this if you were "normal" (whatever that might be). You balk at having the onus paced on you - as the person at the centre of all of this - to make a call. This really isn't as unreasonable as you make out. You are the one living your life, you are the one who deals with the outcomes of any decisions made about that life. It is for you to make that decision- whatever it may be; you cannot outsource it somewhere else.

You've previously stated you're not very in touch with your emotions, and your work life is centred on your analytical and problem solving skills. I disagree - there are plenty of emotions in your comments: love for your wife, fear of the Unknown, anger at your current situation etc. What I mean is that I don't think you can just pigeon hole yourself as a technically minded person who doesn't deal with emotions. Emotions are going on all around us and, perhaps, part of the issue is your steadfast denial to accept that this is the case. You are determined that all things have an "answer" of the unchanging and indivisible variety....but I think that the world around us makes life a lot more open ended than we might like it to be.

Jayne - if there is to be a solution to this, it lies with you.

[jayne01]

Everyone keeps telling me the solution lies with me. Why do psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc even exist if they are not able to diagnose a problem? Why spend all that money only to find out that only you can answer your questions? What do they do at university all those years when the answers supposedly lie in the brain of the patient who has no medical training whatsoever. I suppose I am also to diagnose various illnesses and diseases if they come my way. Why bother with health professionals who have studied for years and years? What could they possibly know? I am my own expert. That doesn't make any sense.

I have had pilots try to tell me what is wrong with a plane. They would say "I have been flying this type of plane for over 20 years and this is what the problem is!" Sometimes they are correct, but often they are wrong. They are not experts at knowing how the plane works and they come to their incorrect diagnosis based on their limited knowledge. A little knowledge can be dangerous. That is why there are experts in different fields who should be trusted in diagnosing what they specialise in. This self diagnosis makes no sense to me. It is like asking Google to diagnose a bunch of symptoms. I have tried that a few times and if Google was correct I would have died many times over due to some terminal condition rather than let a doctor tell me I have nothing more than a minor infection or food poisoning or whatever. I just don't understand where you are all coming from. It is not logical to me.

[tsroxy]

Like I said, they can confirm what you already know but never will they be able to "fix" you, how can you make certain thoughts or desires go away? Brain surgery? The solution lies within you, but they'll hold your hand towards that path.

You really can't compare yourself with an airplane over and over, an airplane is nothing but material and board computer, no intelligence, emotion..

[jayne01]

You really can't compare yourself with an airplane over and over, an airplane is nothing but material and board computer, no intelligence, emotion..

A plane is a complex machine made of metal and computers and a whole bunch of other materials. And each plane has its own "personality" even if it is the exact same model as the plane next door. I am also just a complex machine made of biological materials and chemistry and other stuff. I don't see a big difference there. I am just an ongoing chemical reaction between lots of different chemicals.

[ChiGirl]

Jayne, first off, I'd like to give you a virtual hug. You need it.

I understand how you feel. For years, all I wanted to be was a normal guy. So did many of us. That's why so many of us don't start transition until later in life and start families. We just want to be normal.

Well, you know what? Normal is just a town in Illinois. None of us are normal.  Not even the "normal" ones.  Trans or not, embrace  not being normal.

I also think you're thinking about it the wrong way. You are looking for definitive answers, but there aren't any. You're looking at this like an engineer, trying to make all the parts fit together and make sense. That won't happen.  You need to let go of the analytical mindset and focus on emotions.  I know it's hard, but it's necessary. 

Can I offer some suggestions?  Someone else mentioned getting tested for low T.  If you're low, you could try getting on testosertone for a while and see if that helps. I had low T (and I'm hairy like an ape!) so I was on T, but I hated it.  I hated the feel of T rushing through my body. It felt wrong. It's not a test to see if your trans, but it might help.

Try cross-dressing. Find a safe space to try on clothes and make up. See how it makes you feel. I know the first time I wore breast forms, I broke down crying. It felt so right.

Try and visualize your future. Think about your life if you stayed as a man, what it might be like. Then think about living as a woman.  It's all about emotion here. Embrace that.

There's no one right answer, but I'm going to get blunt here, so skip ahead if you don't want to read it.  You are questioning your gender. You have seen many therapists and other professionals about it. You joined an online community for trans people and you chose the username Jayne. You're trans, girl. Now, what do you do about it?  Ignore it?  Try low dose hormones? Cross-dress?  Explore your feminine side? That's up to you my friend.

It's a hard road, no matter which direction you go, so try to make it good. Be kind to yourself. You deserve it. Good luck & hugs!

Charlotte

P.S.  I'm 6' and 300+ pounds. I'm balding and I make one big girl. And I couldn't be happier. Don't let physical limitations stop you.

[jayne01]

I don't understand emotions. They don't make any sense. There is no logic to emotions. It is not possible to make decisions based in emotions. Emotions just make everything blury, unclear. How can you make a decision on something that has no basis in any facts? There is no logic to it at all.

[ChiGirl]

Believe me, I'm a big believer in facts. But emotions don't need facts or logic. They just are.  You may need to deal with understanding your emotions before you're ready to accept yourself.

Still need facts, though?  Write down a pro and cons list and share it with your therapist.


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[Megan.]

I don't understand emotions. They don't make any sense. There is no logic to emotions. It is not possible to make decisions based in emotions. Emotions just make everything blury, unclear. How can you make a decision on something that has no basis in any facts? There is no logic to it at all.

I felt exactly the same way, I spent decades of my life believing only in logic and what was measurable and quantifiable. But it came down to one simple question I had to ask myself, "was I happy?". I couldn't even answer the question! I spent months with a therapist while they helped ME answer this question, and identify what might. I have had to learn to listen and hear what my internal needs are, it's still a very difficult thing to do. But when I do and when I can fit those needs into my life, I can now say it makes me happy, I can't measure it, I just am. It takes time, patience and acceptance.

[SadieBlake]

How can you live life not knowing what you are? It is torture for me. I always feel like I am an outsider, an observer. I'm in a glass bubble watching other people live their lives but I'm not included because I'm not real or something like that. I keep waiting to one day wake up and be told that I was part of some cosmic science project. I don't even know where to go for help. This website is great, but is very anonymous. It is just words on a screen. I know you are all real people that are trying to help, but I have never met any of you and you don't know me just like I don't know any of you.

My therapists seem unable to help me, not from lack of trying either. They are trying very hard, but so far nothing is working. I sent them an email earlier today telling them how angry I am at them for not telling me what is wrong with me and not wanting to help me. Who does that to the very people who are trying to help? It all just makes me think I am an awful person that has done something terrible in a past life (if there is such a thing) and now I am being punished for it.

I just want to be a normal guy! Why is that so much to ask for?

I can do it because there is no alternative. I again suggest you accept that we know what we're talking about, as do your therapists.

You see science as hard & fast and at it's core deterministic and I can see that makes sense in your chosen career. -- aircraft maintenance and repair probably has more rules and procedures to ensure high certainty than 99.99% of fields. (Even given this I would wager there is an element of creativity involved in diagnosis.)

However is not science which is entirely involved in learning about the things we don't know. In fact central to physics and mathematics you will find there are contradictions to any notion that the world can ever be deterministic or whether systems of logic can even be internally consistent ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorem )

In a separate answer I laid out the reasons why as you progress to successively less 'fundamental' sciences the world becomes less and less understood in anything like the terms of physics or mathematics.

I wouldn't tell you how to maintain an aircraft that's your field. As a scientist and engineer you might accept my expertise in saying that the deterministic world you believe in is nothing more than a story that we make up to try to wrap our heads around reality.

Please note, I'm not saying I am right, or that you should accept my words, rather that given you have so many examples of people who have progressed through the path of being transgender that you owe it to yourself to learn what you can from them and make that the starting point of the rest of your own journey.

[Deborah]

The post above got me to thinking about my thought process in all of this.  It really came down to best guess with incomplete information with a reliance on intuition.  Fortunately, my personality type is comfortable  there and my career profession is trained to make rapid decisions under those explicit conditions. 

I think you are going to have to step outside your comfort zone to move past this.


Sapere Aude

[jayne01]

I want to thank you all for continuing to put up with me and still trying to help me. I know that I probably seem like I don't want to take any advice and stick my head in the sand, but that is not the case. I am having quite a bit of trouble linking everything I read on this website with the real world. As I have stated earlier, the Internet is very anonymous and can seem quite disconnected from the real world. I have never met a trans person in real life. So even though this website is a community full of trans people supporting each other, I still feel isolated in a way because I can't relate anything on here to my real world life. I hope that makes sense, I don't really know how to explain what I'm trying to say.

I guess if I was able to relate some of the advice I'm getting here to the real world, then what you are all trying to tell me would make more sense to me. Where any of you able to move to acceptance and onto transition without ever meeting another trans person?

[Deborah]

My psychologist is trans himself so my answer is no.  Also, while I am on HRT I have not publicly transitioned and do not have any near term intention to do so.  What I am doing now is working pretty well.


Sapere Aude

[Fresas con Nata]

Where any of you able to move to acceptance and onto transition without ever meeting another trans person?

Oh yes, and I didn't struggle with that. I have seen pretty strong signals that I feel like a woman, increasing in both frequency and clarity, so I decided that it was going to be better to follow the flow instead of fighting it. I wonder about the whys and hows but that's another story.

[autumn08]

Your problem is that you think there is something wrong with you relative to your community, not that you have a physiological defect. Therefore, while I'm also a materialist, comparing yourself to a broken airplane isn't an accurate metaphor (I've met some charismatic airplanes, but they never had a sense of community).

Even if you can't stop believing that it's wrong to want to be the opposite sex, there is no way for you to stop wanting to be the opposite sex (regardless of the root of the desire), so you're left with either feeling pain, or taking a painkiller. I know you're afraid of harming those you care about by giving yourself what you're aching for (even if it would be difficult for you to pass, if you have hope, making progress will bring you pleasure), and you have a low valuation of your life, but since you have the option to alleviate your pain, by suffering needlessly, you are most likely hindering your goal of promoting the most good.

Stop self-flagellating to make yourself feel moral, stop contemplating all of the situations you would rather be in, stop torturing yourself with memories of your perceived mistakes, and instead work on creating a decent life for yourself. It is the most productive and moral thing you can do.

I'm sorry for being tough. I'm just trying rouse you from your self-described robotic state. I understand it is difficult for you accept ambiguous ideas and to remove your long held belief that if you acted a certain way, there would be order and justice in the world. Never give up though and along the way, don't feel selfish for asking for help, as you're providing a valuable service. Through you, we are all fighting a common demon.

Also, find a support group. Self acceptance can be much easier if you befriend people that would happily accept you with breasts and a dress.

[jayne01]

Even if you can't stop believing that it's wrong to want to be the opposite sex, there is no way for you to stop wanting to be the opposite sex

I don't think it is wrong for people wanting to be the opposite sex. I don't think that at all. I don't WANT to be the opposite sex, not even altimeter bit. I want to be a normal guy. I feel like such a f**%ing idiot. I don't remember ever thinking I was a girl when I was a child. It has never been a lifelong dream wishing I was a girl. For a condition that exists from before being born, it sure is taking its damn sweet time revealing itself to me. What a way to flush your whole life down the toilet, to learn that you are not what you thought you were. What the hell is the point of going on......

[Jenelle]

I don't remember ever thinking I was a girl when I was a child. It has never been a lifelong dream wishing I was a girl. For a condition that exists from before being born, it sure is taking its damn sweet time revealing itself to me.

Join the club. I have no memories of ever thinking I was a woman. For me, it was a life long dread of "something is not right." I spent my life chasing what that was from political causes, social injustices and every religion under the sun and a whole lot of alcohol.

The only link I have is always being attracted to feminine things (clothes, makeup, mannerism etc), as if they were things that just felt right. I spent a lot of time identifying as a cross dresser (once I learned there was such a thing) and yet still never said "I am a woman". It took decades until my brain was just tired of it subconscious struggle that it finally surfaced, "I am a woman".

Every one has a different journey so just because yours doesn't fit the trans-normative narrative being blasted by the media does not mean you are not trans.

[jayne01]

I have never been attracted to female clothes, makeup and don't have any female mannerisms. I don't fit in to any story described by others here. Maybe I am just too stupid to decipher my own thoughts. Maybe I have always thought I was a girl but not consciously known it. I feel like such an idiot. I don't even know how to understand my own thinking. This is so damn depressing.

[autumn08]

I don't think it is wrong for people wanting to be the opposite sex. I don't think that at all. I don't WANT to be the opposite sex, not even altimeter bit. I want to be a normal guy. I feel like such a f**%ing idiot. I don't remember ever thinking I was a girl when I was a child. It has never been a lifelong dream wishing I was a girl. For a condition that exists from before being born, it sure is taking its damn sweet time revealing itself to me. What a way to flush your whole life down the toilet, to learn that you are not what you thought you were. What the hell is the point of going on......

By wanting to be normal guy, you're wanting to want to be normal guy, which means you currently don't want to. By describing your gender dysphoria as wanting to be normal guy, all you're doing is revealing your internalized-transphoria (don't worry I have thick skin, so it will take a lot more than that to upset me).

Also, don't view feeling resistance against doing something as being an idiot, but rather an opportunity to become more intelligent. Again, you will have greater self-esteem and be more productive if you do.

Also, since you're a materialist, you should be a compatibilist, and know you've done the best you can so far. Therefore, don't waste time excoriating yourself, and get on with it.

[JoanneB]

I guess if I was able to relate some of the advice I'm getting here to the real world, then what you are all trying to tell me would make more sense to me. Where any of you able to move to acceptance and onto transition without ever meeting another trans person?

To say I was a precocious Know-It-All did does begin to scratch the surface. I got my big thick envelope of info from The Ericson Education Foundation in my early teens after I saw the Christine Jorgenson movie, I lived 10 miles from Times Square in NYC. By the time I was WELL entrenched into my 30-40's there was NOTHING anyone could do say or tell me about being TG

That was untill I hit ROCK-Bottom and found myself in a living room filled with others whose life stories, their feelings, what they did, what they felt, etc. practically mirrored my own.

I was in Shock!  OK fine, Been there done that. All WAAAAY too new. Let's see how next moth goes.

A month later, another meeting. I actually started to spill my guts a bit. For the next week I was again in shock. How the F can this be. I KNOW it all.

A month later. Another meeting. This is for real. I NEED to be there.

A week later I dropped the T-Bomb on my wife

That was 7 years ago. We are still together. I still present male. I am still alive. I know how dead I was on the inside.

I live in constant fear of EVER reverting back to that THING I was. Dead on the inside. A lifeless, soulless Thing that did what was expected. Whose only meaning for existing was.... No F'n idea For sure I'd be eating the barrel of a gun if I go back to that dark place again