Post op clocked at a wedding :(

[Icephoenyx]

Hi all,

WOW it has been a while since I've been on here! I used to live on these boards as a teenager pre transition lol. Ah the good ol' days.

So I went to a wedding tonight with my guy friend. I knew no one there but the unique thing is that this friends one parent is a part time CD and so we met through friends and support groups. He supports his parent and doesnt see me as anything less than a cisgirl. His sister was also there and she is not so eager about her one parent but is respecful to me as we are different according to her, anyways. I never hurt any family or children I guess.  Sister asks how me and him met when they went for a smoke outside, and he says I'm one of the said parent's friends. Which she then puts two and two together. About an hour later she's loaded and complaining about the one parent. So I kept my distance. But a little later she asks me why I'm not dating her brother. Her brother says he has children and that I don't want a guy with kids. Which is true. So then she says well kids these days won't tell off a crossdresser, and she points to me. And she practically yelling cause she's so plastered. I know people heard and saw her point.

So then I get a little mad and go back inside. She follows and admits that she's been having conversations about me with other guests. She even said another lady at our table said "I think thats a boy". I cant really say she's credible but I don't think she would make this up either. The topic was on her mind. I eventually got a ride home but I'm devastated and been crying for hours. I'm 4 years post op. I got my hair and lashes done for this event but apparently it's not good enough. The sister said she didn't know at first but she didn't know what she was saying for 90% of the night.

So now I'm paranoid and all my self esteem is shot. Do all my co-workers know? Was everyone at the wedding aware? The cashier at the supermarket? Why do I bother investing into my appearance. Or make any effort at all? I even had a date this past fall who texted me after the date and said "you're a transgender aren't you?"  that really upset me and now it's all coming back.

I am a very young transitioner and try to be as stealth as possible but clearly it can't be done. I like straight men but they all can see right through me.

I just never want to do anything social again or even leave the house for that matter. PLEASE HELP.

[Ms Grace]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. As someone who was recently asked (for the first time in two years) if I was trans (by some random idiot on the street) I know upsetting it is and how much it can damage your confidence and self-esteem. Hopefully that feeling will pass and you will gain your self esteem back again.

Unfortunately with being stealth (I'm semi stealth) it only takes one person to put two and two together and the cat can be out of the bag. That's sounds like what has happened here. What some cis people don't realise - whether they act out of spite, malice, gossip or good intent - they risk severely compromising a trans person if they start outing them to all and sundry. To be honest I'm not sure what you can do from this point, especially if you don't know who knows. How safe is your workplace? What are the anti-discrimination laws in your state like?

[nolwenn.perret]

I don't think that being devastated is going to help you.

At some point, cisgender people also criticize other cisgender thinking that they trans and making fun of other cisgenders that way which is... really cheap!

They probably know nothing at all about your past, what you have been through and everything, so I can understand that you feel bad about it especially in you case being 4 years post-op.

However, I think one thing we, trans people should consider is that there will always be a way to be clocked whatsoever, whether by someone really mean or just by someone saying that "for fun.

Just move on, this does not only happen to you, or just to transgenders (maybe a bit more, is there anybody with statistics about that?) but to cisgenders people as well... never forget that human beings are incredibly capable, stupidity-wise.

And even though you have been clocked, then what? Plus you are post-op so well technically-speaking if you put aside all the gender theory stuff aside (and don't get me wrong just to put yourself in the shoes of this person who had nothing else to do) then so far you don't have a hmhm between the legs so technically speaking you are "safe".

I must sound a bit like "easier said than done" but trust me this can happen to literally anybody and the best you can do is just to move on. Basically, don't take it too seriously cause to me it really sounds like a childish conversation... and I would care much about it.

I mean if everybody was doing that around you, always, all the time. Ok then maybe in that particular case you could ask yourself: Am I doing something wrong? Actually even if that was really the case I am not so sure that you would be doing something wrong. The a majority in a group has never been a sign of intelligence neither a evidence of being right whatsoever: who brought Hitler to the power back in period prior to the WW2? Just people).

Keep in mind that there is not such a thing as being right or wrong it's all made up by people around who all have different point of convergence and divergence and all in all accordingly to their beliefs just like yours. Why bothers to overthink about it, this is simple as live for yourself and people you love and not for the peace of mind of people who do not live in the same reality as you and the ones you love cause they won't think that much usually about what they are going to say (whether it's about you or others).

I'm aging and so far, one thing I am starting to understand it's that: never take something personally.
Worst case scenario always try to understand this person or just don't bother and as I said and move on.
Do democrats try to understand republicans? No, the other-way around, neither. (I digress a bit but you get the gist)

In a life of person, there are plenty of things that does not worth your attention, and this probably includes this small tiny little thing you have been through recently

[RachelsMantra]

So now I'm paranoid and all my self esteem is shot. Do all my co-workers know? Was everyone at the wedding aware? The cashier at the supermarket? Why do I bother investing into my appearance. Or make any effort at all? I even had a date this past fall who texted me after the date and said "you're a transgender aren't you?"  that really upset me and now it's all coming back.

If your co-workers know, so what? Do they treat you like the woman you are? Do they treat you with respect? Do they gender you female, using she/her pronouns? Do they know you as your current name, your current persona? If so, then perhaps it's not a big deal if they silently register to yourself that you are trans. Yeah sure it sucks to think about the hypothetical of them gossiping about your transness behind your back. But that's life. People are going to talk about ->-bleeped-<- that ain't their business because we're humans. But what you can do is try and give them a reason to not talk additional ->-bleeped-<- about you - be a good person - a good co-worker - and while they might know you're trans at least they'll respect you.

With respect to the cashier at the supermarket or random wedding geusts, they probably don't know because they're not paying close attention or interacting with you on an extended basis. Passing comes in degrees and depends on the context.

Why do you put effort into your appearance? The same reason anyone else does: it makes you feel better, more confident and makes you look better.

[Icephoenyx]

Ok so the appaearance thing is tough because I used to enjoy getting all dolled up and going to the salon having nice clothes etc, but it's all for nothing if I'm getting clocked. Isn't it?

And also clearly I'm not "safe" being post op. If you have a low voice or a 5 o clock shadow etc people don't care whats between the legs they have already made their assumptions. These are my struggles.

[April_TO]

First of all, I can truly empathize with you. I can just only imagine the pain and the betrayal you have experienced from what you have shared. However,based on experiences posted on this site from countless trans woman who are well over 10 yrs in their respective transition that one can still be clocked. Not because you are not presentable, pretty or well polished. There's just a person that will know and can tell based on many factors.

Don't let this incident blind you from what you have accomplished so far. Be proud of who you are and if they really intend of outing you then I will pursue any legal avenues to pursue them. That is just slander and oral defamation.

Stay strong.

April

[KyleeKrow]

I wonder if it's more of a...she put things together since you were friends with that one person and labelled you a cross dresser... Another way to look at it is, in four years, one person put things together. And I'm not so sure she would have if you hadn't mentioned being friends with them, so I wouldn't attribute it to appearance if it were me. Although, yes, definitely a sucky moment. I think it really reflects on her more than anybody else, though.

[nolwenn.perret]

Ok so the appearance thing is tough because I used to enjoy getting all dolled up and going to the salon having nice clothes etc, but it's all for nothing if I'm getting clocked. Isn't it?

And also clearly I'm not "safe" being post op. If you have a low voice or a 5 o clock shadow etc people don't care whats between the legs they have already made their assumptions. These are my struggles.

Well my point is you do things for yourself not necessarily to please others... if what you are doing match the typical female physical appearance expectations of others, fair enough but don't blame yourself or feel bad because you cannot match at a certain time the expectations of everybody around you.
This includes the people who potentially can hurt you by saying things like what you have heard at this wedding.

I am not denying the fact to be willing to have a good passing and thus to feel accepted in the "right" gender slot.
Rather, what I am saying it happens to a lot people and don't let it get you down just because of that.

I failed my past transitions mainly because of being hurt (and getting oversensitive about it).
At some point I've been clocked and start to purge and cry like a baby (without a real support it's hard).

About the "safe" part, don't get wrong it's more about the mindset of the person who hurt you... and her more than probable contradictions how she considers the gender of others... which is most likely really shallow (a grandma with a bit a moustache is probably a man to her she might even laugh at it, who knows?).
Personally, I stopped dealing with over-superficial people and I am really fine, whenever there is someone like that on my way, I just ignore him/her.
It does not change the fact that I'm still looking forward the day where I will look like "naturally feminine" and where I cannot be clocked but even if the second does not come true, I can still be happy without everybody around acknowledging my gender cause it's not possible.

After all it's a matter of where you put the bar and where they are putting theirs, there are always disagreements don't feel down, seriously.

[sparrow]

Ok so the appaearance thing is tough because I used to enjoy getting all dolled up and going to the salon having nice clothes etc, but it's all for nothing if I'm getting clocked. Isn't it?

I write this from a position of privilege: I identify as nonbinary, and passing isn't a thing I really aim for.  However... attaining that position was a long struggle and part of it is a compromise between what I want (to be read as female) and what I've got the time and patience for.

Anyway... it's not all for nothing.  It's all about you.  You aren't nothing.  Far from it... you're the most important thing in the universe!  For me, it's all about the person I see in the mirror.  Haters gonna hate.  I'm betting she's just jealous.

[Cindy]

I was wondering about this situation overnight and I do have a few thoughts I would like to share.

Firstly this woman was drunk, spiteful and full of bile, she may well have made up the comment about another person seeing you as a 'guy' that is spite.

But why would someone do this?

Well two stories: I took my wife to her work reunion party last year, she is in a wheelchair and I accompanied her, fed her etc. One of her ex work friends (female) came up to me and said, loudly. 'If I didn't know you were a man I would have thought you were a woman' That was mean and nasty, but I am a mean and nasty woman as well (sometimes) I replied "Oh I thought you were transitioning into a guy! I didn't want to say anything in case you were a transman in early transition, but your facial hair is coming along nicely"

I also have issues with one family member, one sister in law. She continually misgenders and deadnames me, after 5 years.

I asked my boyfriend if he knew why.

His response: You are thin and attractive, she is morbidly obese. You have a good job and career, she doesn't. You have a good income, she doesn't. You drive a cute sportscar' she doesn't. You are popular and have lots of friends, she doesn't.

She is jealous of you. She suffers from narcissism, you don't.

I think you met someone similar! Don't worry about her and live your life as the lovely woman you are.

[Obfuskatie]

The biggest problem I have with going stealth is that it's just another closet to hide in. I believe the hardest part of our transition is getting past the internalized transphobic shame. I'm proud I've come as far as I have in my life and transition. Being a trans woman is nothing to be ashamed of.

I often like to pass on the wisdom of Dan Savage, so here goes. Being trans, or having any part of yourself that jerks don't like is a sort of super-power. Embrace it, let your trans status filter the dbags from your dating pool.

Surround yourself with people who know you're trans and are supportive. Then when some drunk c-word starts making transphobic comments about you, your friends will have your back and call her out on her bigoted bs. Let your friends fight some of your battles for you, but you can stand up loud and proud and make her say things to your face as well. As long as you have friends to watch your back, you can take comfort knowing you won't be attacked for being outspoken in your own defense.


     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JustOneQuestion]

Anyone can tell me to be proud to be trans, but I can't. I am semi stealth. Rarely some seem to notice, often they just mention my height.

Although I notice the biggest difference between me and a cis woman is that when anyone misgenders either I get insecure and silent. A cis woman gets upset and angry. Anyone can get misgendered but the way you handle it will get you clocked or not.

[Laura_7]

Ok so the appaearance thing is tough because I used to enjoy getting all dolled up and going to the salon having nice clothes etc, but it's all for nothing if I'm getting clocked. Isn't it?

And also clearly I'm not "safe" being post op. If you have a low voice or a 5 o clock shadow etc people don't care whats between the legs they have already made their assumptions. These are my struggles.

1. You haven't been clocked. There was a woman digging around and making assumptions. Thats a difference.
You could try to practise a few things to say.

2. There are things that also are unmistakenly feminine.
People often look at the face and then for boobs, and if they are present they assume female.
So ... you might point to your boobs and ask them if they look like those of a male.
Usually people apologize then, if its a random encounter.

I know its not easy in such situations to have a quick response ready.
But a few possible responses might be trained.

What is part of your femininity and shows is simply how you feel inside.
I'd say just be yourself, keep on sailing through this, and most people will see the woman.
Just sail a steady course ... and keep having fun, remember how much fun you had at the hairdresser, and enjoy.
You are a woman inside, have fun and enjoy it


*hugs*

[Lady_Oracle]

Being post op doesn't factor in with passing, it may give you more confidence but that's not necessarily going to fix your passing situation. Having a flawless female voice will shut up anyone misgendering you and will remove all doubt.

Sounds like to me this said person just figured it out or something cause of the parent. When someone already knows one trans person, especially someone that has a personal relationship with them, it's like they gain their own trans radar.

[gymrat93]

Hi all,

WOW it has been a while since I've been on here! I used to live on these boards as a teenager pre transition lol. Ah the good ol' days.

So I went to a wedding tonight with my guy friend. I knew no one there but the unique thing is that this friends one parent is a part time CD and so we met through friends and support groups. He supports his parent and doesnt see me as anything less than a cisgirl. His sister was also there and she is not so eager about her one parent but is respecful to me as we are different according to her, anyways. I never hurt any family or children I guess.  Sister asks how me and him met when they went for a smoke outside, and he says I'm one of the said parent's friends. Which she then puts two and two together. About an hour later she's loaded and complaining about the one parent. So I kept my distance. But a little later she asks me why I'm not dating her brother. Her brother says he has children and that I don't want a guy with kids. Which is true. So then she says well kids these days won't tell off a crossdresser, and she points to me. And she practically yelling cause she's so plastered. I know people heard and saw her point.

So then I get a little mad and go back inside. She follows and admits that she's been having conversations about me with other guests. She even said another lady at our table said "I think thats a boy". I cant really say she's credible but I don't think she would make this up either. The topic was on her mind. I eventually got a ride home but I'm devastated and been crying for hours. I'm 4 years post op. I got my hair and lashes done for this event but apparently it's not good enough. The sister said she didn't know at first but she didn't know what she was saying for 90% of the night.

So now I'm paranoid and all my self esteem is shot. Do all my co-workers know? Was everyone at the wedding aware? The cashier at the supermarket? Why do I bother investing into my appearance. Or make any effort at all? I even had a date this past fall who texted me after the date and said "you're a transgender aren't you?"  that really upset me and now it's all coming back.

I am a very young transitioner and try to be as stealth as possible but clearly it can't be done. I like straight men but they all can see right through me.

I just never want to do anything social again or even leave the house for that matter. PLEASE HELP.

I hate what has been done to you. It was so visceral, just for me to read that. You must be in a world of hurt, and I'm here to let you know that that's entirely justified. I can relate, btw. I am only 22, have been transitioning for a while, and am also in stealth. I have passing privilege to the point that my roommates didn't know i was trans until I mentioned it. I am not bragging.

Back whenever I wasn't as passable, people would still tell me that I'm really passable and unclockable just to shut me up. There came a point where I let my guard down, and then I got clocked at a 4th of July celebration. It crippled me, and I was depressed for six months, to a dangerous extent, because I swore I was unclockable. It has been a pretty long time, and I'm on a new level now, after another year of transitioning. In retrospect, what it was that revealed my trans status was my voice. Unfortunately, voice is half the equation.

I later trained my voice, and now I can't speak outside of cis female range. No one suspects I'm trans anymore. Aside from people just being bigoted pieces of dirt, who likely don't look nearly as feminine as you do, do you think your voice might play a role?

Claire

[gymrat93]

I hate what has been done to you. It was so visceral, just for me to read that. You must be in a world of hurt, and I'm here to let you know that that's entirely justified. I can relate, btw. I am only 22, have been transitioning for a while, and am also in stealth. I have passing privilege to the point that my roommates didn't know i was trans until I mentioned it. I am not bragging.

Back whenever I wasn't as passable, people would still tell me that I'm really passable and unclockable just to shut me up. There came a point where I let my guard down, and then I got clocked at a 4th of July celebration. It crippled me, and I was depressed for six months, to a dangerous extent, because I swore I was unclockable. It has been a pretty long time, and I'm on a new level now, after another year of transitioning. In retrospect, what it was that revealed my trans status was my voice. Unfortunately, voice is half the equation.

I later trained my voice, and now I can't speak outside of cis female range. No one suspects I'm trans anymore. Aside from people just being bigoted pieces of dirt, who likely don't look nearly as feminine as you do, do you think your voice might play a role?

Claire

...Also, I'd wonder if your geographic location might play a role here too. My early transitioning days were spent in a small town in the Bible Belt, and the overwhelming majority of the people there were, by definition, narrow-minded---especially relative to the metropolitan people I now know as my friends. Such people would look at a fashion model and rudely ask if she is "secretly a man" just because she doesn't look like the provincial women they're used to seeing. I'm not all that tall for a woman, with 2 out of every 50 women being my height or taller, yet my height of 5 ft. 9 would elicit some really uncalled for comments. When I worked at a car factory months and months ago, people would ask my work partner of I was "secretly a man" because of how tall I am. Eons ago, some likely cornfed woman asked my partner if I'm trans because of how "fit" I was----and I wasn't that fit.

People are just small-minded and live in small worlds, and this is what you reminded me of whenever you started writing about how some of them were smokers (i.e., potentially blue collar), and the bizarre lashing-out that one woman had about youth being more okay with "cross-dressers". These are the types of people who had some immature tirade a few years ago, prompting Ciara to answer whether or not she's transgender. We're talking about Clara here. You know how  attractive Clara is, right? Or Famke Janssen?

And about the guys, I like straight men too, and my predicament can be really painful or really erotic since I look entirely cis but am non-op. They'll say some really unwarranted things if they feel like matters aren't going their way. Most of them are out there to hurt your feelings and/or get sex out of you. One time, this guy kept sexually harassing me on a dating site, and I told him to go away four different times. Lo-and-behold, he rage-types: "Are you a boy. You have boy boobs." I have big B's; the dude was trying to hurt me, and that's all there is to it. I probably told him that that was hurtful, experienced him admitting that he was just trying to hurt me, sent him photos of my boobs, laughed as he pleasured himself to it, and then told him I was trans. Then he reported me for trapping him, and my account was deleted, but I digress.

Claire



Modified Language. Read the ToS in particular https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,201010.0.html
The post is also very close to bashing, I will not tolerate that against anyone.

Forum Admin

[barbie]

Most people around me are too busy paying any special attention to me. If they do, then they have some business or other agenda to be interested in me. Yes. My close friends pay attention to me, asking and commenting about fashion and beauty, my family and my work.

Some students comment like "you look very beautiful today", but I tend to remind them that their relationship with me is basically educational or scientific one.

barbie~~