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Frightening number of posts about botched surgeries on this board

Started by Hanouf, April 21, 2016, 09:13:57 PM

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Hanouf

I have not visited Susan's Place in about a decade and many things have changed,  so I am pretty much a Newbie again to the website. As so, I probably see things on this board with a fresh prospective and/or be alarmed by what I and everyone else is reading, but have come to expect.

I am surprised at the relatively large number of posts on this board that almost in passing, speak about botched surgeries and am even more surprised at how little is being said about the topic and it really not being fully acknowledged on Susan's Place.

Years ago, there was very little mentioned about surgical disasters and a lack of  willingness to hold doctors accountable. Have things really changed that much?
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stephaniec

I don't know , I been here at Susan's for three years and haven't noticed  that many, ofcoarse I usually stay in this section and maybe there are in the post op section.
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Cara_DarkCloud

What constitutes a botched surgery, Someone's expectations not being met or other?
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Laura_7

Quote from: Hanouf on April 21, 2016, 09:13:57 PM
I have not visited Susan's Place in about a decade and many things have changed,  so I am pretty much a Newbie again to the website. As so, I probably see things on this board with a fresh prospective and/or be alarmed by what I and everyone else is reading, but have come to expect.

I am surprised at the relatively large number of posts on this board that almost in passing, speak about botched surgeries and am even more surprised at how little is being said about the topic and it really not being fully acknowledged on Susan's Place.

Years ago, there was very little mentioned about surgical disasters and a lack of  willingness to hold doctors accountable. Have things really changed that much?

Imo its human nature...
everybod hopes all goes well.

Please keep in mind that there are many satisfied customers who do not open threads about it.

Imo it should be discussed openly.

So people know about possible shortcomings, and if they can do a few things to support, like hiring a nurse for better recovery ...
of if they would prefer to look for people with other processes and better recovery facilities for example.


*hugs*
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Paula1

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LanaL

Here's another one I'm afraid - My Story - Not for those with a squeamish disposition:

Moderator Edit: Removed the link due to TOS #1. The pertinent line is as follows:
QuoteMembers with a post rank of "family" or higher may post links to off site information provided that the information does not otherwise violate the Terms of Service. This is a privilege that will be revoked if abused.
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Debra

Quote from: LanaL on May 17, 2016, 03:23:32 PM
Here's another one I'm afraid - My Story - Not for those with a squeamish disposition:



Moderator Edit due to TOS #1(please see above and below post).



Wow Lana thanks for sharing! Sorry you went through all of that =/

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Jacqueline

Quote from: LanaL on May 17, 2016, 03:23:32 PM
Here's another one I'm afraid - My Story - Not for those with a squeamish disposition:

Moderator Edit: Removed the link due to TOS #1. The pertinent line is as follows:


LanaL,

Welcome to the site.

I had to remove your link to your review due to Terms of Service #1. In it's entirety it reads:
Quote1. We do not allow the advertising of other websites or chats on Susan's Place, with the exception of the Susan's Place Transgender Web Directory which is listed on the main page of this site. This prohibition includes the chat, forums, and the wiki.

There are seven exceptions:

    Links listed added by the chat staff to the Transgender Bot (TGBot) in our chat
    Users on the chat may give other users links to their photographs and personal websites.
    Links to the source of news stories posted In the News forum which is located under the News and Information section of the forum
    Members with a post rank of "family" or higher may post links to off site information provided that the information does not otherwise violate the Terms of Service. This is a privilege that will be revoked if abused.

    You may link to your personal website in your forum profile, and forum signature which is shown at the bottom of your forum posts.
    Links to the event website for more information in the Calendar of events.
    Site staff may at their discretion provide links to other websites, in order to provide informational resources to Susan's Place users, this is a privilege I feel that they have earned. If you are interested in this ability volunteer for the Chat, Forums, Links, or Wiki.

This is done for several reasons, the major one being spam prevention. It also helps us to ensure that the sites Susan's Place links are family friendly. To recommend sites for inclusion in the links area, simply find the category that the link best fits, and click the 'Add Link' text at the top of the page. You do not have to be the owner of the website to submit it for listing.

I know you have not received the links to these rules yet. So, just a note to let you know. Additionally, I would like to share some links that include welcoming information and those Terms of Service. If you have not read through them all, please take a moment to do so:

Things that you should read





Once again, welcome to Susan's. I hope you find what you are looking for here.

With warmth,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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jhulyglow

It would be important to be allowed to publish medical errors and dissatisfaction of patients. FFS and other surgeries are a dream for us. Moreover, it is remarkable the participation of fake profiles . Medical teams have the ability to create profiles and publishing reports , as if they were patients.
FFS -Frontoplasty: 13th of November 2014 - Dr. Maggio, Buenos Aires - Argentina.
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Jacqueline

Quote from: jhulyglow on May 19, 2016, 01:31:34 PM
It would be important to be allowed to publish medical errors and dissatisfaction of patients. FFS and other surgeries are a dream for us. Moreover , it is remarkable the participation of fake profiles propagandizing doctors and patients undergoing.

I agree. A respectfully written review is very helpful here. It should be posted here.

Sincerely,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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jhulyglow

Quote from: Joanna50 on May 19, 2016, 01:35:23 PM
I agree. A respectfully written review is very helpful here. It should be posted here.

Sincerely,

Joanna

Sorry for the mistakes in writing. I am Brazilian and I'm learning English.
FFS -Frontoplasty: 13th of November 2014 - Dr. Maggio, Buenos Aires - Argentina.
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Jacqueline

No problem. I encouraged LanaL, through a message, to post her review here. Just a little early to post a link.

:)

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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KayXo

Quote from: jhulyglow on May 19, 2016, 01:31:34 PM
It would be important to be allowed to publish medical errors and dissatisfaction of patients.

Also agree.  ;)
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Debra

Quote from: Joanna50 on May 19, 2016, 01:45:48 PM
No problem. I encouraged LanaL, through a message, to post her review here. Just a little early to post a link.

:)

Joanna

Cool, I hope she does!

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LanaL

Here is my honest review of my surgery with Dr Bart Van De Ven, as promulgated on Realself site (With pics) dated 2nd May 2016. Now 3 years post-op.

1st session Sept 2011
Procedures:
Forehead recontouring with orbital recontouring + Hairline correction + Browlift, Blepharoplasty lowerlid, Rhinoplasty (Nose reduction), Earlobe reduction, Lipfift, Trachea shave, MACS facelift, Lipo-filling face: cheeks, nasolabial folds, vermillion upper lip, mental fold.

Problems with surgery:
There was a two hour delay in the start of my operation. Supposedly, due to the anaesthetist not turning up. Patient care at whilst under general anaesthesia wasn't good. I had ulna nerve damage at the elbow of my left arm, due to it being badly positioned arm during the long surgery (Still have problems with it now) and a painful bruise at the bottom of my spine, probably caused when moving me from theatre to recovery. Whilst under anaesthetic, I had two extra procedures carried out on me that I was not aware Dr Bart was going to do. They certainly were not discussed preoperatively. They were, liposuction of my neck and stuffing my upper lip with skin left over from the forehead surgery I had. This is assault! The latter also resulted in two very visible scars on my neck (The other was for the trachea shave) instead of just one. Discharged from hospital to hotel 11am next day with excessive swelling and no facial compression bandage.

The good:
Bone work was good. Happy with forehead and nose.

The bad:
Soft tissue work was disappointing. Puckered scar line left lower bleph. Scars badly positioned under both eyes. Expanding scar right temple area near endotine. Resulting in infection (Controlled with antibiotic) this resulted in baldness right temple area. Large Haematoma around trachea shave making adams apple seem larger than it was before. The resulting internal scarring means adams apple is still quite prominent and it's not helped by the internal scarring caused by neck lipo-suction. Neck will have to be revised by an experience surgeon, once internal caring has softened, in a few years time. A MACS facelift is not a suitable procedure for people in their 50s. The vector is only upwards and leaves the neck saggy.

The ugly:
Adhesions left jaw line. Scarred/bald right temple area. Bleph scars, left one worse than right. Permanent uncomfortable, watery eyes. Ear lobes attached to side of face. Right side bad lazy stitching . Saggy neck.

2nd Session Oct 2012
Procedures:
Revision lipo-filling upper lip, Revision forehead (brows dropping) plus another extra procedure, chin-recontouring with a view to revision of MACS lift due to adhesions along left side jawline, when chin swelling recedes.

Problems with surgery:
None.

The good:
Chin work was a good decision.

The bad:
Permanent lump appeared on right side skin above top lip after lipo top-up to lip vermillion. Forehead nip n tuck didn't do anything, brows continue downwards.
The Ugly:
Not much changed as swelling disguised chin work.

3rd Session April 2013

Procedures:
MACS facelift revision, lip lift revision, Left eye scar revision (Laser resurfacing).

Problems with surgery.
Woke up from surgery with paresis to the right side of my face. My right eyebrow was collapsed and wouldn't move. My lips were not competent on the right making it difficult to speak (Labial sounds, Ems, Bees and Peas impossible) and I couldn't drink the water she offered me. I told the recovery nurse to record it in the "book". Dr Bart came in and ask me to smile, which I did. He seemed not to worry about my permanent wink, wonky pucker or inability to drink or talk properly. Three years since surgery I still have permanent nerve damage to my motor nerves affecting to submandular, buccal and temporal branches. When back in my hotel (Discharged next day at 11am again) I discovered that Dr Bart had also ruptured my parotid gland on the left side of my face filling my face with saliva and making it difficult to breath. I had to go back to the hospital on Monday (Op was on Thurs) have a vacuum drain bottle permanently fitted. I could see the bottle filling with saliva when I ate. I lost a fair bit of weight! This also meant I had to plan for a longer stay in Ghent adding £500 to my travel and accommodation expenses. The lip lift revision was lopsided and the scar under my right nostril is badly puckered. My right earlobe has "pixied" and both ear lobes have dog ears. I think this proves my previous analysis that with Dr Bart, it is a case of – Bone work good, soft tissue work bad. I have tried seeking a lawyer in the UK to sue Dr Bart for his inept workmanship. But they will not take a case to the Belgian courts as it is too expensive and difficult to do on a no win no fee basis. A lawyer, I spoke to, did actually win a successful case suing a Belgian surgeon in a Belgian court. But two years later, his client is still waiting for her compensation to be paid. Be warned, Dr Bart's bad work is protected by this fact also by the fact that transgender people are reticent about going public.

The Good:
I look like a female, from most angles.
The Bad:
I can't speak or eat properly which has badly affected my social life.
The Ugly:
Due to the number of obvious scars and lop-sidedness, I look operated on!
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Devlyn

Just be aware, all of the surgeons (and their lawyers) are free to read this board, too.

Hugs, Devlyn
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anjaq

We need something like "Trip Advisor" for Trans surgeons. Where peole can leave comments, rate the surgeons and be verified as patients who really had the surgery to increase their credibility on the vote ;)

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Devlyn

Quote from: anjaq on June 27, 2016, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on June 02, 2016, 03:05:39 PM
Just be aware, all of the surgeons (and their lawyers) are free to read this board, too.

I find it sad that apparently one has to be afraid of surgeons coming after patients who report about bad results. How is one going to form a proper opinion about which surgeon to choose for a good result and minimal risks, if people are afraid to speak about bad results or problems with surgeons.

I'm merely stating the obvious. If someone has an issue with a surgeon, it follows that there could be subsequent civil court actions. The first thing your lawyer will tell is not to talk about your case.....especially on social media. We have people requesting to have their comments removed from the surgery boards all the time. I just caution everyone to be aware that this board is open to the public.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn
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2cherry

Indeed, a patient and surgeon should find remedy in court, not on a forum.

I think it would be best to deny/remove any unfair complaints about surgeons, because they quickly spiral out of control and can really damage a reputation. It's too easy to damage a reputation online. Douglas Ousterhout wrote in his book, that a smear campaign was being waged against him by other surgeons on the Internet. Thus, he warns about trusting things on the Internet. A surgeon who never makes a mistake, never operates. If you're that 1% that had complications, you're just unlucky. It's a risk, and with risk comes responsibility.


1977: Born.
2009: HRT
2012: RLE
2014: SRS
2016: FFS
2017: rejoicing

focus on the positive, focus on solutions.
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Susan

Quote from: Joanna50 on May 18, 2016, 11:08:02 AM
Quote from: LanaL on May 17, 2016, 03:23:32 PM
Here's another one I'm afraid - My Story - Not for those with a squeamish disposition:

Moderator Edit: Removed the link due to TOS #1. The pertinent line is as follows:


LanaL,

Welcome to the site.

I had to remove your link to your review due to Terms of Service #1. In it's entirety it reads:
Quote1. We do not allow the advertising of other websites or chats on Susan's Place, with the exception of the Susan's Place Transgender Web Directory which is listed on the main page of this site. This prohibition includes the chat, forums, and the wiki.

There are seven exceptions:

    Links listed added by the chat staff to the Transgender Bot (TGBot) in our chat
    Users on the chat may give other users links to their photographs and personal websites.
    Links to the source of news stories posted In the News forum which is located under the News and Information section of the forum
    Members with a post rank of "family" or higher may post links to off site information provided that the information does not otherwise violate the Terms of Service. This is a privilege that will be revoked if abused.

    You may link to your personal website in your forum profile, and forum signature which is shown at the bottom of your forum posts.
    Links to the event website for more information in the Calendar of events.
    Site staff may at their discretion provide links to other websites, in order to provide informational resources to Susan's Place users, this is a privilege I feel that they have earned. If you are interested in this ability volunteer for the Chat, Forums, Links, or Wiki.

This is done for several reasons, the major one being spam prevention. It also helps us to ensure that the sites Susan's Place links are family friendly. To recommend sites for inclusion in the links area, simply find the category that the link best fits, and click the 'Add Link' text at the top of the page. You do not have to be the owner of the website to submit it for listing.

I know you have not received the links to these rules yet. So, just a note to let you know. Additionally, I would like to share some links that include welcoming information and those Terms of Service. If you have not read through them all, please take a moment to do so:

Things that you should read





Once again, welcome to Susan's. I hope you find what you are looking for here.

With warmth,

Joanna

Just a FYI if it is an internal link ie susans.org there is no restriction.

Quote from: jhulyglow on May 19, 2016, 01:31:34 PM
It would be important to be allowed to publish medical errors and dissatisfaction of patients. FFS and other surgeries are a dream for us. Moreover, it is remarkable the participation of fake profiles . Medical teams have the ability to create profiles and publishing reports , as if they were patients.

And that is the problem we face here, who is a disgruntled patient, and who is a fake profile created by the staff of a competing surgeon to bad mouth that surgeon. It is not like you send in a copy of your drivers license to register.

The courts are the place to handle botched surgeries, if the doctor won't make things right on their own.
Susan Larson
Founder
Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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