Finally feel ready for FFS , Facial Team

[Victoria_Stark]

Hi! my name is Victoria and im from Norway. I have been a long time reader on this forum, but now finally took the plunge and became a member , looking forward to getting to know you girls

Im 27 years old, and started my transition 5 years ago, 3 years on antiandrogens and proscar (but still no estrogen sadly, but will hopefully start it this summer)

I feel i pass rather well, and don`t get misgendered , but im still anxious walking around in day time , selfconsious of my nose, adamsapple, and when people see me in profile (i feel that reads as more masculine than from the front)

And after lot of thought and deliberation i decided to do something about it .
I have done lots of research and ended up with Facial Team, i like the natural results and expertise , and the loaction is convenient since i live in Norway (and its sunny and warm in Marbella, wich i really craaave)
Going to a consultation in Oslo , October 1, really excited!

Im not certain what procedure i should get, expect rhinoplasty and trachea shave, transplants to fill the corners of the hairline. I think i could benefit from some slight orbital work maby, maby some slight jawline work too?
What to you think?

My hairline in general is rather high (wich i like actually, kind of high fashion xD) But the its way to M shaped.

Opions, suggestions ?

Just lipstick and eyeliner, no fondation or conturing.





Just a view of the browbone





Hugs from Norway!

*edit, sorry i dont have picture with the adamsapple showing, just second nature now trying to hide it, but its there in all its pointy ,prominent "glory". *

[Debra]

Couldn't tell how bad your brow ridge was because of no profile view but you look REALLY good imho.

I used to have a square hairline like that as well. If you don't need forehead work done, maybe consider hair transplants as another option.

I did them a few yrs ago and I'm still going to go in for FFS this year probably for forehead and nose.

[Victoria_Stark]

Silly me i forgot the profile view, here it is



Thank you so much

How did you find the hair transplant healing process, in regards to pain ?

[Paula1]

Hi Victoria,

Great to hear from you and thank you for sharing your images.

You look stunning and are 99% the way there already ... 

I have recently had FFS with Facial Team and I have never been happier.

It was my " Last chance saloon " as I had two bad experiences previously.

See my thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,199847.0.html

I am no expert at judging what other people need but I feel that your forehead does need feminising more, the transition area down to your nose and your nose also need improving. Orbital feminising, I believe is done automatically when the forehead is opened up. This you can check with the surgeons.

Not sure about your your jaw, Dr Capitan & Dr Simon will advise you about that when you see them in October. They never sell patients procedures that are not needed as they are too jealous of their reputations.

I bet that you are excited at seeing them and Marbella is to die for.

Hair Grafting painwise is " A walk in the park " I can assure you.

Good luck on your wonderful journey and what a great age to have transitioned.

In earlier times, it was so much more difficult with prejudice from people, governments and so on.

Also nowadays we have all these great surgeons at our disposal, not like in my day when they were pretty bad and still took the money off us.

Hugs

Paula

PS. You have a wonderfully feminine top lip, you lucky girl ... 

PPS. Your eyebrows will also be lifted a little at the same time as the forehead procedure.

[Laura_7]

Hello and welcome 

You look gorgeous imo.

If you want to speed up your HRT you might consider going private.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208198.msg1845578.html#msg1845578


hugs

[Jacqueline]

Victoria_Stark

I think you look great!

Welcome to the site. As you have noticed over the years, there are a lot of people with much experience. Helps out when looking for advice.

I also wanted to share some links we pass along to newly posting members. If you have not read through them before, please do so:

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

Once again, welcome to Susan's. I hope you find what you  are looking for.

With warmth,

Joanna

[mmmmm]

If anything you have a few androgynous features, which many biological women have. You dont really have any masculine features, you are very lucky in that regard. So it wouldnt be a facial feminization in the proper meaning of the term... but if you want there are couple things that you might benefit from having done. It all depends on what you want, not saying that you actually need any of this.

You could look into little hairline lowering in the middle, and filling the corners with hairtransplant.
Forehead remodeling (lower third setback) with some orbital shaving
Rhinoplasty
Improving chin projection with sliding genioplasty (or chin implant) 

I dont see your adams apple on any of pics except on side profile, and its not really clear on that pic either how prominent it actually is.

[KayXo]

You don't need FFS AT ALL! It's all in your head and I wonder if FFS will really help if you are already anxious with the beautiful, feminine face you have. It's also important to take estrogen with anti-androgens as with time, you can suffer from osteoporosis, mood problems, low energy, increasing ageing (although you look quite young now), weight problems, diabetes, heart problems, etc. Please discuss with this doctor as 3 years without E is a long time, IMO.

[Victoria_Stark]

Thank you all for the kind words and a warm welcome !

Thank you Paula1 for your advice and kind words, i followed the thread with your experince at Facial Team at waited excited to see your results, wich btw look great!

Yeah even in the last few years there have been huge advances in trans avareness and acceptance ( especially in norway, with transpeople in the media, even in the Norwegian version of Dancing with the Stars

My lips have been injected with Restylane maaany times (used to go every 3 months) , but i stopped 2 years ago for financial reasons. Luckily some permanent effect was had (i guess because each time you get lipinjections there is some small amount of scartissue inside) or that was what my doctor said.

Pastry thank you for your kind assesments im excited to hear what Dr Capitan & Dr Simon have to say, but i think they might recomend the same procedures you mention.

Laura_7 thank you so much for the message you sent, i dont know yet how to respond to privatmessages :/ but will when i figure out, if my GP is not helpfull i will try what you suggested

Johanna50 thank you for the welcome i will read through the enclosed links, i dont want to break any rules or upset anyone

KayXO
I must say to some extent i agree with you KayXo. I pass rather well, and my anxiety is the biggest problem for shure. But i still feel for my own sake that tweeking some features will remove the few telltale signs of being born male. I will try tomorrow when its light to get a proper picture of my adams apple , its the one thing people really notice and remark on when they learn that im trans.
I guess in my case it`s more cosmetic then actually feminizing. My main goal is the nose, adams apple and hairline.

I have heard of the negative effect of longterm antiandrogen use and the potencial side effects, and to be honest they scare the bejesus out of me, thats why im really pushing for getting started on Estrogen now. The national treatment senter for transgender people in norway is slow to give treatment, around 200 people are refeered each year, only 20-25 get treatment (if your unemployed you risk not getting treatment) i even know a girl who was told she needed to get at least a B at school to show she was doing well in her new gender role before being allowed to start hormones.
They also only treat people they feel satisfy F64.0 diagnosis, anyone not fitting after theyre opinion within that diagnosis does not get treatment. And we know that there are many varients of gender idenity and dysphoria, needing different degrees of treatment

Luckily i have a super nice GP doctor who gave me the antiandrogens in first place, she has been scared of giving me estrogen in fear of angering the national treatment senter (even though there is no laws against it) But i think she can finally be convinced too do so with all the risks acssosiated with long term antiandrogen use.

[Paula1]

Good Morning Victoria ... 

Thank you all for the kind words and a warm welcome !

Thank you Paula1 for your advice and kind words, i followed the thread with your experince at Facial Team at waited excited to see your results, wich btw look great!

You are really welcome. Thank you for your kind words regarding my result ...  <hugs>.  I have still quite a long way to go yet in terms of the nose and upper lip lift healing (afterall it's only 32 days since surgery) but every day I see the scars diminishing. As with all surgery that is external, it takes time to settle down. My forehead profile is amazing now which just proves that burring in my case anyway was not the answer. After my facial surgery in 2004, it took around 6 to 9 months before I looked normal again and this time around, I am sure it will be quicker. I can't wait to see the new me, I am ever so excited.

Yeah even in the last few years there have been huge advances in trans avareness and acceptance ( especially in norway, with transpeople in the media, even in the Norwegian version of Dancing with the Stars

I did not know that. Of course there was Jordan Gray in this year's BBC's "The Voice".

My lips have been injected with Restylane maaany times (used to go every 3 months) , but i stopped 2 years ago for financial reasons. Luckily some permanent effect was had (i guess because each time you get lipinjections there is some small amount of scartissue inside) or that was what my doctor said.

Pastry thank you for your kind assesments im excited to hear what Dr Capitan & Dr Simon have to say, but i think they might recomend the same procedures you mention.

Laura_7 thank you so much for the message you sent, i dont know yet how to respond to privatmessages :/ but will when i figure out, if my GP is not helpfull i will try what you suggested

Johanna50 thank you for the welcome i will read through the enclosed links, i dont want to break any rules or upset anyone

KayXO
I must say to some extent i agree with you KayXo. I pass rather well, and my anxiety is the biggest problem for shure. But i still feel for my own sake that tweeking some features will remove the few telltale signs of being born male. I will try tomorrow when its light to get a proper picture of my adams apple , its the one thing people really notice and remark on when they learn that im trans.
I guess in my case it`s more cosmetic then actually feminizing. My main goal is the nose, adams apple and hairline.

I too know what KayXo is saying BUT with some little Facial Team tweaks here and there and you will be smoking ( I quote a certain US surgeon's words ...  ). When I was in Spain last month there was a young girl like you with great looks prior to surgery and now she is already looking red hot ... 

I have heard of the negative effect of longterm antiandrogen use and the potencial side effects, and to be honest they scare the bejesus out of me, thats why im really pushing for getting started on Estrogen now. The national treatment senter for transgender people in norway is slow to give treatment, around 200 people are refeered each year, only 20-25 get treatment (if your unemployed you risk not getting treatment) i even know a girl who was told she needed to get at least a B at school to show she was doing well in her new gender role before being allowed to start hormones.

This all sounds rather archaic.

They also only treat people they feel satisfy F64.0 diagnosis, anyone not fitting after theyre opinion within that diagnosis does not get treatment. And we know that there are many varients of gender idenity and dysphoria, needing different degrees of treatment

Does not sound good either.

Luckily i have a super nice GP doctor who gave me the antiandrogens in first place, she has been scared of giving me estrogen in fear of angering the national treatment senter (even though there is no laws against it) But i think she can finally be convinced too do so with all the risks acssosiated with long term antiandrogen use.

I really hope that you are placed on oestrogen therapy as soon as possible.

Have a great Sunday Victoria.

Hugs

Paula

PS. It's amazing when I walk around looking at some Cis women, I see brow bossing, too low eyebrows, poor noses and I think " You need FFS !! ". I am not being rude here and if they knew it and/or could afford it they might well have surgery to improve their appearances. In fact in the past, I have been to various FFS surgeon's presentations/consultations where genetic women have come to seek surgery to feminise their faces even more. I have genetic women friends post menopausal and not on HRT who sadly look quite masculine, even with beard growth. When they ask me how come you look so good at your age, I say HRT and to an extent my late mother's genes.

[Laura_7]

Luckily i have a super nice GP doctor who gave me the antiandrogens in first place, she has been scared of giving me estrogen in fear of angering the national treatment senter (even though there is no laws against it) But i think she can finally be convinced too do so with all the risks acssosiated with long term antiandrogen use.

There are no rules against it yet doctors seems to be shy to help people.
You are a clear case and look great imo. Its like you were made for this. Quite a few transgender people are, their endocrine system and looks can show signs of being trans before hrt.
If there are no contraindications sublingual bioidentical estrogen or patches for example are considered really safe, if vital functions are monitored. So there should be no reason for concern, and you might tell her to keep it confidential.
Its a sad state that people needing help are not served as they could.
You have a second option with going private, hopefully there will be more such services in the future.
Many endos strive for levels of estrogen of 180 pg/ml and of testosterone of below 70 ng/dl for good feminization.
If using sublingual bioidentical estrogen pills or sublingual estradiol valerate it may be a good idea to spread the daily dose in a few small doses so levels are more steady. I would not use synthetic forms of estrogen because some have grave side effects.
Bioidentical or estradiol valerate should be readily available nowadays.
You might talk about all of this with your doctor.


hugs

[Paula1]

Hi again Victoria,

I used to take Climaval (oestradiol valerate) by mouth with water See: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/a6233/climaval-estradiol/

but my NHS endocrinologist Dr Leighton-Seal prescribed me with Sandrena Gel which I rub into my thighs each day.

Result: Much kinder to my liver and my oestrogen levels at a far lower dosage than with Climaval are now actually higher and optimised.

Sandrena Gel is widely used here in the UK for us girls and is made by Orion Corporation in Finland.

Here is the UK website:  http://www.orionpharma.co.uk/

[Laura_7]

I used to take Climaval (oestradiol valerate) by mouth with water

If estrogen is swallowed the liver encounters estrogen in the digestive tract, presumes a leak and raises clotting factors.
If bioidentical estrogen or estrogen valerate is dissolved under the tongue estrogen enters the bloodstream directly.
It may also be more effective since the liver builds down part of the estrogen.

Some people have better results with pills than with patches because skins are different.

An advantage of patches are more steady levels.

hugs

[Victoria_Stark]

WOW ! the accumulated knowledge on this board is astounding


Paula1 , im also interested in a lip lift, a sligth one , just to have a slightly more full lipp (in the picture there are generous amounts if lipliner and lipstick. How has it been while healing ? has eating been difficult/painfull ?


I went 2 weeks ago to get x-rays to monitor bonedensity , so anxious to find out if the anti androgens have done any damage, but i think because of my age there is not a huge risk.
I will educate my GP doctor and really push the point why she should give me the estrogen.

If all else fails, i could take a holiday to England and maby find some nice private doctor to sort it out there?
Seems transgender care is a bit more civilized there in general

Update on FFS at Facial Team, i have a skype consultation on 3rd of June to get a estimate of price and what procedures need to be done, and then in 1 October a in person consultation so the doctors can get a proper look in person.




And now for a random digression , i just realised who i kind of look like, a young Patti LuPone (im a musical geek okay)






I wish i looked like Jemima Kirke, but even with surgery one has to remember that surgeons are not magicians xD

[KayXo]

Luckily i have a super nice GP doctor who gave me the antiandrogens in first place, she has been scared of giving me estrogen in fear of angering the national treatment senter (even though there is no laws against it)

In other words, your health matters less to her than the negative response she *might* get from the center. I don't call this a nice and considerate doctor. To me, a doctor puts others' well-being first and foremost, before their own. That's why people become doctors in the first place...Perhaps ideal but it should be this way and it is not fair to you.

By the way, estrogen naturally thickens lips and makes them redder. You probably wouldn't need to resort to lip surgery/injections.

If estrogen is swallowed the liver encounters estrogen in the digestive tract, presumes a leak and raises clotting factors.

Indeed but the effect is much smaller when bio-identical estradiol is taken as it raises coagulability to a much lesser degree that is unlikely to cause clots. It also exerts other effects in the body which reduce clotting like  increasing fibrinolysis. I have rarely come across incidences of DVT in people taking bio-identical E orally, even when higher doses were taken. In the case of non bio-identical E, the cases are more numerous and this is what doctors base themselves on when they fear giving hormones to women, not quite understanding the significant difference between different forms of E.

[Debra]

Silly me i forgot the profile view, here it is

Wow yeah, you don't seem to have much of a brow ridge or orbital rim , if you ask me. That's good.

How did you find the hair transplant healing process, in regards to pain ?

The healing process wasn't too bad really. Not painful at all. It was more annoying having to be VERY careful with the area and having it look weird for a few months.

[Paula1]

Hi Victoria,

WOW ! the accumulated knowledge on this board is astounding

It certainly is, but sometimes there is misinformation too, so be careful and always double check that the information that you have been given or read is correct.

Paula1 , im also interested in a lip lift, a sligth one , just to have a slightly more full lipp (in the picture there are generous amounts if lipliner and lipstick. How has it been while healing ? has eating been difficult/painfull ?

Right after surgery, I did not notice much difference in the feel or eating/drinking but after I arrived home which was 9 days after surgery, the healing and swelling really kicked in and for a while I found it odd drinking and eating, so I tended to slurp a bit. Because above the upper lip lift I also had an open rhinoplasty, there is an incision at the base of the nose just above the ULL incision, so the whole area feels tight.

I am massaging these scars and the nose itself which helps things to settle down. Two weeks after surgery, I applied musk rose oil to both incisions for seven days and then a week later I am still applying Dermatix Gel for 4 weeks.

This all helps to settle down the scar.

FT tell patients who have had an ULL not to make sudden facial expressions or smile/laugh too much as it stretches the stitches which worsens the scar before they come out 7-8 days later. Also soft foods are recommended.

I still find that if I make an exaggerated expression the area feels sore but not painful, nearly 5 weeks on.

Just have to let nature do it's work and heal the area and I know it will be fine having had this procedure done 12 years ago in the USA. You can see the fotos from back then on my FT thread. See:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,199847.140.html

I looked far worse after a few weeks back then than I do now, so that's good.

I went 2 weeks ago to get x-rays to monitor bonedensity , so anxious to find out if the anti androgens have done any damage, but i think because of my age there is not a huge risk.
I will educate my GP doctor and really push the point why she should give me the estrogen.

If all else fails, i could take a holiday to England and maby find some nice private doctor to sort it out there?
Seems transgender care is a bit more civilized there in general

Update on FFS at Facial Team, i have a skype consultation on 3rd of June to get a estimate of price and what procedures need to be done, and then in 1 October a in person consultation so the doctors can get a proper look in person.

That's great, good luck with your consultations ... 

And now for a random digression , i just realised who i kind of look like, a young Patti LuPone (im a musical geek okay)






I wish i looked like Jemima Kirke, but even with surgery one has to remember that surgeons are not magicians xD

You are already as attractive as they are, if not more so, thus don't worry.

Hugs

Paula