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My Purgatory

Started by Semira, May 27, 2016, 02:05:00 AM

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Semira

Hello,

I have a problem that I'm sure will sound very familiar. I'm a guy (unfortunately) and since my teens I have had a strong desire to be female. Now in my thirties, this desire only gets stronger with each passing year. My problem is that either choice, staying as I am now or initiating a change, ends poorly when I play it out in my head. I also can't imagine a gray-area scenario that I would be satisfied with.

So option one would be to continue the course I've been following, which is doing nothing. Gender issues coupled with severe depression (22 years at least, which I think predates the gender problem) and significant social anxiety has left me in a very pathetic state. I haven't had one friend in the past 15 years. I barely talk to family. I live alone. My depression is bad enough to cause my body to deteriorate. While I can fake it online and fake it just enough to hold down a job to keep a roof over my head, my ability to function as a human being is virtually gone.

As bleak as option one is, I'm not sold on option two. Taking any kind of action to change my body is extremely problematic and may leave me even worse off than I am now. Problems that come to mind include:

a. No Money. I'd never be able to afford it anyways. End of post. Have a nice day! Also, no insurance. No education to earn more money. And depression has robbed me of the mental fortitude needed to function at a level required to either earn an education or aquire more money. Plus no money to even begin to address the depression (or the myriad of other mental health problems I probably have).

b. No Support. I have nobody to help me. And as much as I appreciate the occasional contact I have with people on the internet, it's just not the same as someone in the flesh. I'm mind-numbingly lonely on a daily basis and even if I find myself near another human being I have no clue how to interact with them. There are days when I seriously feel that I will someday forget how to speak entirely. It's not like I can strike up a conversation with someone anymore. What could I talk about? I have no hobbies, no friends, no interests. Who would want to be around me? I sure wouldn't.

c. Even if A and B magically went away, I don't feel like transitioning would ever satisfy me. I would always feel fake or incomplete. I could never achieve a true female body because obviously it's not possible. It feels like it would be just a giant tease. So close but...so far. Ultimately I'd have to sacrifice what little money I have, what little human contact I have, any number of consequences stemming from significantly increased financial and social turmoil, and a million conveniences I couldn't begin to list all to transform myself from a C- male to an F female. I can barely pass as a guy. I'd make an awful woman.

Gray areas just feel like a stop-gap measure. Wearing feminine clothes is nice for a time but I get tired of it because I don't have the body to match. Accessories like makeup or jewelry are no different than the clothing. Their charm wears off quickly. It's the body that I really care about.

I had a notion that if I found a woman to be close to that I could kind of live vicariously through her and eek by that way but I'm too socially inept to be able to try that experiment. I try to find lists of reasons why being female would be a bad thing. I show my brain all kinds of statistical analysis on why it would be best to remain as I am. I explain to myself that being born a white male in the United States is like winning the lottery. I should just be happy with what I got. My brain won't listen to any amount of logic or reasoning that I throw its way.

I will wrap up this post by noting that I would never physically harm myself. One positive I suppose.
  •  

Mirya

There are ways for you to explore your gender identity that involve more than reading stuff on the internet.  Where do you live?  If you live near a major metropolitan area, consider visiting a transgender support group nearby.  Even if it's a 3-hour drive, that's close enough and you should go.  Sitting at home by yourself and stewing over these thoughts in your head will only get you so far.  Most support groups are free, and they always welcome newcomers.  It's a guaranteed way to make new friends who understand you right from the start.

There is nothing quite like meeting other transgender people in real life.  In getting to know other trans people, you will very likely make important discoveries about yourself.
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LizK

Quote from: Semira on May 27, 2016, 02:05:00 AM
Hello,

I have a problem that I'm sure will sound very familiar. I'm a guy (unfortunately) and since my teens I have had a strong desire to be female. Now in my thirties, this desire only gets stronger with each passing year. My problem is that either choice, staying as I am now or initiating a change, ends poorly when I play it out in my head. I also can't imagine a gray-area scenario that I would be satisfied with.

So option one would be to continue the course I've been following, which is doing nothing. Gender issues coupled with severe depression (22 years at least, which I think predates the gender problem) and significant social anxiety has left me in a very pathetic state. I haven't had one friend in the past 15 years. I barely talk to family. I live alone. My depression is bad enough to cause my body to deteriorate. While I can fake it online and fake it just enough to hold down a job to keep a roof over my head, my ability to function as a human being is virtually gone.

As bleak as option one is, I'm not sold on option two. Taking any kind of action to change my body is extremely problematic and may leave me even worse off than I am now. Problems that come to mind include:

a. No Money. I'd never be able to afford it anyways. End of post. Have a nice day! Also, no insurance. No education to earn more money. And depression has robbed me of the mental fortitude needed to function at a level required to either earn an education or aquire more money. Plus no money to even begin to address the depression (or the myriad of other mental health problems I probably have).

b. No Support. I have nobody to help me. And as much as I appreciate the occasional contact I have with people on the internet, it's just not the same as someone in the flesh. I'm mind-numbingly lonely on a daily basis and even if I find myself near another human being I have no clue how to interact with them. There are days when I seriously feel that I will someday forget how to speak entirely. It's not like I can strike up a conversation with someone anymore. What could I talk about? I have no hobbies, no friends, no interests. Who would want to be around me? I sure wouldn't.

c. Even if A and B magically went away, I don't feel like transitioning would ever satisfy me. I would always feel fake or incomplete. I could never achieve a true female body because obviously it's not possible. It feels like it would be just a giant tease. So close but...so far. Ultimately I'd have to sacrifice what little money I have, what little human contact I have, any number of consequences stemming from significantly increased financial and social turmoil, and a million conveniences I couldn't begin to list all to transform myself from a C- male to an F female. I can barely pass as a guy. I'd make an awful woman.

Gray areas just feel like a stop-gap measure. Wearing feminine clothes is nice for a time but I get tired of it because I don't have the body to match. Accessories like makeup or jewelry are no different than the clothing. Their charm wears off quickly. It's the body that I really care about.

I had a notion that if I found a woman to be close to that I could kind of live vicariously through her and eek by that way but I'm too socially inept to be able to try that experiment. I try to find lists of reasons why being female would be a bad thing. I show my brain all kinds of statistical analysis on why it would be best to remain as I am. I explain to myself that being born a white male in the United States is like winning the lottery. I should just be happy with what I got. My brain won't listen to any amount of logic or reasoning that I throw its way.

I will wrap up this post by noting that I would never physically harm myself. One positive I suppose.

Semira Welcome to Susan's and I am glad you posted. You are in one tough space. Mirya made a good suggestions to find resources from your local support groups. You will find support and help in these groups and not just talk.

Your view of yourself is based on the idea that to transition you have to pass as a cis female. You don't have to worry about it...if you are non passing then you are non passing but I think you would find that many many people will still respect who you are. Being passable is not as prerequisite to transitioning and becomes a Psychological barrier. Before even trying to alter your body you have dismissed it out of hand because you have decided you won't pass...So if you rule out number 1 because if you could live with it successfully then you would be already.

Could you depression be reactive in nature to your gender issues. Have you expressed how you feel to a counselor or Dr? Imagine if transition actually improved your depression to a point where you could live a life...it could happen and will happen if you can get to the right people.

Take Care and have a big Aussie Hug from me :icon_flower:

Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
  •  

J79

Hi.

I feel the same way you do in a lot of respects. Dressing like a female, wearing jewelry and make up, and the like are great, for a little bit. But then there's that moment when you see your masculine body wrapped in feminine clothes and you feel altogether broken inside. At least I do. :(

I'm sorry you don't have friends and support. But having friends is hard too. I keep this huge part of me hidden from them. I don't want to tell them I'm afraid of what they would think and say.

I did the thing you said. I've been in relationships with women just to live vicariously through them. I even got married.

I have no idea what I'm doing. I've struggled with depression too. Since I was 12 or 13 on and off.

I don't know if any of that helps. I know I like it when people reply to my posts. No matter what they say. It's nice to feel heard.

I hope today is a good day for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Dena

Like you I only had about 1/4 the money I needed for my transition. I started at age 23 working and saving in order to pay for treatment and surgery at age 30. Throughout that time I had depression which today can be reduced. My parents were 400 miles away from me and I didn't accept any financial assistance from them.  It comes down to making a plan and seeing it through. It will not be easy and maybe you will have to upgrade your skills or find another line of work but if it's what you want above everything else and are willing to make the commitment, it can be done. 
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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Ms Grace

one thing I've learned from my transition is that I could do things at my own pace so you do things if and when you can afford them. Better still many of the nightmare scenarios I had concocted in my imagination never came to pass. Most problems have a solution if you work to resolve them, or work around them. Have a chat with a therapist, don't live in your head with this.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Semira

Quote from: Mirya on May 27, 2016, 02:24:32 AM
Where do you live?  If you live near a major metropolitan area, consider visiting a transgender support group nearby.  Even if it's a 3-hour drive, that's close enough and you should go.
I live in a rural area. The closest decent-sized city is about an hour away and the closest major city is anywhere from 2 to 3 hours depending on traffic. A 3 hour drive might be doable if that's round-trip, but 3 hours one-way would be very difficult if only because that would burn an entire tank of gas each trip and that's too much money. I have a hard time finding information online that actually turns out to be both what I want and not 10 years outdated. I'll have to keep an eye out for one of the more local cities and hope for the best.

Quote from: ElizabethK on May 27, 2016, 06:00:53 AM
Your view of yourself is based on the idea that to transition you have to pass as a cis female. You don't have to worry about it...if you are non passing then you are non passing but I think you would find that many many people will still respect who you are. Being passable is not as prerequisite to transitioning and becomes a Psychological barrier. Before even trying to alter your body you have dismissed it out of hand because you have decided you won't pass...So if you rule out number 1 because if you could live with it successfully then you would be already.

Could you depression be reactive in nature to your gender issues. Have you expressed how you feel to a counselor or Dr? Imagine if transition actually improved your depression to a point where you could live a life...it could happen and will happen if you can get to the right people.
Grading my future hypothetical self as an F might have been a little harsh of me (although F goes all the way up to 59%!). Putting on my objectivity hat...
- I've had some compliments from people in regards to my long hair. I've had hair down to my waist for years now.
- Because of my hair people with poor vision who've walked up behind me have referred to me with female pronouns.
- I'm pencil thin and not overly tall at 5'8" to 5'10" (I seem to get a different measurement every time).
- I do have fantastic ankles. Silky smooth perfection. But just the ankles. If ankle fetish was a thing, I'd be rich!
- Negative: Deep voice. And a voice that has trouble speaking to begin with.
- Negative: Tons of body hair...everywhere. Sure it can be removed but...egads.
- Negative: I don't think my body is capable of generating fat cells. From my understanding a lot of the desirable shapes that come with a female body owes to fat distribution. I could consume a bajillion calories a day and not gain a pound. I eat nothing but junk and sit around all day and I'm still a skeleton.
- Negative: I would worry that hormones would fail because my body rarely responds to anything. Food often makes me hungrier. No over the counter drug has ever worked as advertised. I had minor surgery and the anesthetic failed...3 times...resulting in a very painful procedure. Caffeine has no impact even right before bed.

My depression started around age 11 and initially unrelated to any gender issues. I wanted to be a girl when I was a kid but it wasn't a significant part of my life then. I'd like to find someone in the flesh to talk to but when I do searches for nearby therapists that deal with transgender issues it turns out that they "specialize" in every word in the dictionary. Specializing in everything means specializing in nothing. The search continues.

Quote from: J79 on May 27, 2016, 12:24:09 PM
I don't know if any of that helps. I know I like it when people reply to my posts. No matter what they say. It's nice to feel heard.
I feel the same way. Even if I had 500 replies of gibberish "huifew 78h34thui ghuierg" it would still be something.  :)

Quote from: Dena on May 27, 2016, 05:07:44 PM
Like you I only had about 1/4 the money I needed for my transition. I started at age 23 working and saving in order to pay for treatment and surgery at age 30. Throughout that time I had depression which today can be reduced. My parents were 400 miles away from me and I didn't accept any financial assistance from them.  It comes down to making a plan and seeing it through. It will not be easy and maybe you will have to upgrade your skills or find another line of work but if it's what you want above everything else and are willing to make the commitment, it can be done.
I worry about spending money because while I technically have some money stored away, I never know if I'll need it for an emergency. If I spend it on therapy I could really be in trouble. Not that long ago I had a medical problem pop up out of the blue that cost about $700 to fix (and the office lost track of my visits and really should have charged me an additional $300). If I didn't have that $700 to fix it, it could have turned into a life threatening problem and I'd be out of luck.

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 27, 2016, 08:57:15 PM
one thing I've learned from my transition is that I could do things at my own pace so you do things if and when you can afford them. Better still many of the nightmare scenarios I had concocted in my imagination never came to pass. Most problems have a solution if you work to resolve them, or work around them. Have a chat with a therapist, don't live in your head with this.
I'm great at concocting nightmare scenarios. Give me a story of a cute fluffy bunny and I'll give it rabies and a thirst for human blood.
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JMJW

QuoteI explain to myself that being born a white male in the United States is like winning the lottery.

Except when it isn't. These social Marxist theories are about classes of people and can break down when applied to individuals. No one is reasonably asserting every white male has it made.
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NikkiC

Quote from: Semira on May 27, 2016, 02:05:00 AM
So option one would be to continue the course I've been following, which is doing nothing. Gender issues coupled with severe depression (22 years at least, which I think predates the gender problem) and significant social anxiety has left me in a very pathetic state. I haven't had one friend in the past 15 years. I barely talk to family. I live alone. My depression is bad enough to cause my body to deteriorate. While I can fake it online and fake it just enough to hold down a job to keep a roof over my head, my ability to function as a human being is virtually gone.

Semira, I feel your pain, your situation almost mirrors my own in many ways.  I could say you are not alone,  but honestly thats not going to make you feel any better.  So much for the misery loves company notion.  But I can relate.

Quote
a. No Money. I'd never be able to afford it anyways. End of post. Have a nice day! Also, no insurance. No education to earn more money. And depression has robbed me of the mental fortitude needed to function at a level required to either earn an education or aquire more money. Plus no money to even begin to address the depression (or the myriad of other mental health problems I probably have).

You're not alone Semira. Sorry.  I couldn't help it.  I have serious dental issues, PTSD and crippling depression.  And it seems if one doesn't have insurance others look down at that.  Its a catch-22 situation.

Quote
b. No Support. I have nobody to help me. And as much as I appreciate the occasional contact I have with people on the internet, it's just not the same as someone in the flesh. I'm mind-numbingly lonely on a daily basis and even if I find myself near another human being I have no clue how to interact with them. There are days when I seriously feel that I will someday forget how to speak entirely. It's not like I can strike up a conversation with someone anymore. What could I talk about? I have no hobbies, no friends, no interests. Who would want to be around me? I sure wouldn't.

My father died last year at 90 years old.  My mom the year before that.  While they never accepted the fact their son was actually their daughter, I still loved them and I miss them.  I have a sister who I can't stand.  She is around 8 years older and has always managed to make my life miserable.  Everytime I have to deal with her, the experience leaves me drained, exhausted and depressed for days.  The only true friend I ever had was from childhood but he died 10 years ago.   Like you, I have no friends, no one to socialize with.  I don't go out.  I believe myself to be an alien that has been forced  to live  in a sociopathic society.  I fear that I have become sociopathic like the environment I live in, but I cry a lot and feel a great sense of empathy to others so this cannot be the case. It seems to me that people's smiles are really just superficial.  When I socialized at a younger age, I felt like a stranger amongst pseudo-friends.

Quote
c. Even if A and B magically went away, I don't feel like transitioning would ever satisfy me. I would always feel fake or incomplete. I could never achieve a true female body because obviously it's not possible. It feels like it would be just a giant tease. So close but...so far. Ultimately I'd have to sacrifice what little money I have, what little human contact I have, any number of consequences stemming from significantly increased financial and social turmoil, and a million conveniences I couldn't begin to list all to transform myself from a C- male to an F female. I can barely pass as a guy. I'd make an awful woman.

You know what? I feel the same way sometimes.   But the thought of not being a woman is just unacceptably horrifying to me.  I am too poor and too much of a coward to ever transition into a woman like some have.  At one point in my young adulthood, I started taking female hormones.  I was stupid.  Back in those days it was difficult to find a doctor in Texas who would prescribe female hormones to someone like me. So I took black market ones instead. 
And I started to change, but I was talked out of taking them.  They say that hormone treatment is irreversible, but that wasn't my experience, however, I only took them for a little under 6 months.  I  try to remind myself its all about what's in ones heart and not outwardly appearances. But society brainwashes us to think differently doesn't it?

Quote
Gray areas just feel like a stop-gap measure. Wearing feminine clothes is nice for a time but I get tired of it because I don't have the body to match. Accessories like makeup or jewelry are no different than the clothing. Their charm wears off quickly. It's the body that I really care about.

You think too much Semira. You really, really should maybe think about trying to someway, somehow occupy your mind.  Too much idle time makes for  thinking too much about nothing.  Trust me.  I am an expert at doing this. Stop looking in the mirror. The idea is to FEEL like a woman.  You are going to have to compromise and find some middle ground somewhere. Even if you have to get feminine and imagine you are the woman you want to be.  All women do that whether they care to admit it or not.

Yes, life sucks, people suck. Sometimes. The world is cruel and calloused.  One just gets tired.  So numbly tired. So sleepy yet sleepless. So numb yet feeling much pain. The days merge together, the world passes by, and I may as well not even exist. Ignored yet magnified. Scrutnized yet marginalized.   Screaming inside, but no one to hear it; And even if they did no one would care.  No one. I sometimes feel the world is such a horrible place because I was born in it. Maybe the world would be a better place if I were not in it. I don't know.  The darkness and despair from depression knows no bounds.  Sinking so low to the point of beliving one cannot sink any lower.  Oh believe me, you can!  Don't let your depression go untreated.  Depression will hold you in bondage, take your life away from you.

Get a dog.  Get a cat. You need to have something in your life that gives you pure love with no strings attached.  And you need to have something to love back.  Yes, at some point your dog or cat will die.  But as cruel and unfair as it seems, that is the cycle of life. So don't use that as an excuse to deny yourself.  Fill that void in your life.  It is well worth it.  I honestly don't think I could survive if I didn't have a dog or a cat to give and receive lots of love.

Quote
I had a notion that if I found a woman to be close to that I could kind of live vicariously through her and eek by that way but I'm too socially inept to be able to try that experiment. I try to find lists of reasons why being female would be a bad thing. I show my brain all kinds of statistical analysis on why it would be best to remain as I am. I explain to myself that being born a white male in the United States is like winning the lottery. I should just be happy with what I got. My brain won't listen to any amount of logic or reasoning that I throw its way.

I tried that route. Make Nikki go to sleep. Enter into a relationship with a nice girl. Know what happened?  Nikki eventually wakes up.  Demands to be let out.  I found myself at best envious of the girl and at worse jealous to the point of wearing her panties, nighties, skirts and blouses when she wasn't around. She can indulge in her femininity; Why can't I?  I would feel like a phoney piece of crap for allowing this beautiful girl put her trust in me only to ultimately be a flagrantly lying hypocrite to her. What a jerk!  I had become so adept at deceiving and lying to myself that it became second nature to do the same onto others.  Why did I always ultimately hurt the ones I loved the most?  Why was I so selfish?  I'm not the smartest kid on the block and it takes me years to learn things that most people know right off.  After years and years of this type of diminishing, destructive behavour, I realized my selfishness was directly proportional to the amount of pain I was feeling emotionally.  In other words I was experiencing abject emotional and psychological pain which would deaf, dumb and blind me to the pain I may have been causing others.  I couldn't feel past my own pain. Self denial.  Sometimes it was easier to deny what I already knew.  No amount of girl friends, no amount of having sex with them would change what I was.  Physically, my male body desired girls but emotionally, I  realized I was using them just so I could learn how to be like them.  How despicable.

Quote
I will wrap up this post by noting that I would never physically harm myself. One positive I suppose.

For what its worth I care. We are pretty much in the same boat. There is just nothing anyone can say or do to automagically make things better.  That somehow comes from within.  I just wish I knew how.

I'm really into female names.  Semira is such a pretty name!  Isn't that a Hebrew name meaning 'from heaven' or 'highest heaven'?  Many moons ago I remember asking my mother what she would have named me if I were a girl and she told me she thought Nikki was a pretty name and would have probably named me that.  So I have since then felt that is what my name should have been.

Nikki
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