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Why do many trans women serve in the military?

Started by Sebby Michelango, June 10, 2016, 02:01:06 PM

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V M

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on June 11, 2016, 05:46:42 AM
I thought trans women wanted to prove the world that they are women, not men. They do transistion for a reason, either socially or medical. So why do you want to prove you're a man, ladies? I always believed trans women are women who wants to live as women, even though they aren't cis. Maybe I have missed something.

Just curious, how old are you Sebby?
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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AnxietyDisord3r

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on June 11, 2016, 05:46:42 AM
I thought trans women wanted to prove the world that they are women, not men. They do transistion for a reason, either socially or medical. So why do you want to prove you're a man, ladies? I always believed trans women are women who wants to live as women, even though they aren't cis. Maybe I have missed something.

Because for one thing if you're trying to purge something about yourself you don't like, it's not uncommon to go running for the absolute opposite extreme.

Also, plenty of cis women join the military. Like my aunt. "Don't think of me as a women," she said, when she became a NCO, "think of me as your commanding officer." My aunt is my hero.
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KathyLauren

#22
I wanted to join the "government flying club".  Teach me to fly and then pay me to do it?  Cool, sign me up!

That and "proving myself".
Quote from: Deborah on June 10, 2016, 03:19:22 PM
However, even after proving myself it didn't change anything about being trans.
Yes, this.

Sebby, "proving oneself" is part of the pattern of denial that many of us have had to fight through.  We tried, unsuccessfully, to be the men that we were told that we were, and to prove to our families and to ourselves that we were as macho as all those soldiers.  Even after I got out (That was one time I was true to myself: I may have been macho enough to die for my country, but I sure as heck wasn't going to kill for it.), I stayed in denial about being trans for another three+ decades.

I envy the folks who figure it out early.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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Michelle_P

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on June 11, 2016, 05:46:42 AM
I thought trans women wanted to prove the world that they are women, not men. They do transistion for a reason, either socially or medical. So why do you want to prove you're a man, ladies? I always believed trans women are women who wants to live as women, even though they aren't cis. Maybe I have missed something.

You missed the 1950s, 1960s, and maybe the 1970s, I suspect.  I'm 62 years old.  In the 1950s, a child that expressed a preference for being the opposite gender was just engaging in inappropriate behavior, readily corrected with corporial punishment and prayer. ("And what did you pray for?"  "I prayed God would make me a girl."  "That's sinful!" *WHACK*)

In the 1960s, some treatments were available, which are now banned as torture in many places.  My parents (I had no say) were offered electroconvulsive and aversion therapy to correct my behavior.  Mom turned that down, thank goodness.  Instead, for my issues, including delayed onset of puberty, I was given "vitamins so you'll grow up right".  Vitamin T helped change me from an effeminate A student to a hairy, angry D student, so progress...

Halting puberty and offering the child the opportunity to live as their desired gender was simply not available.  Instead, we had society and authority figures who firmly believe that what's between your legs defines you entirely, and taught that any deviation from this was perversion, sinful, and a mental illness. 

So, trying to live as a woman was not exactly an opportunity we had.  We were conditioned and trained to hide our 'sinful desires' and 'mental illness', trying our damndest to pass as cismen as a matter of simple survival.  We often joined the military, or engaged in high risk manly man activities to try and have our Man Credentials, in case we were ever questioned. 

Yes, we have serious levels of self-doubt, up to self-loathing, while repressing our true nature.  BTW, this is the core of my gender dysphoria.   Trying to get our Manly Man Credentials was a way to try and prove to ourselves that we were real cismen, not just some mentally ill freak trying to hide and pass as cismen.

Of course, if we do this long enough, over the decades we can develop other problems, including depression and anxiety.  That can lead to things like suicide attempts, and self-medication from substance abuse.  Some of us who lived through this era have been lucky enough to get help and find a real solution.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Devlyn

I walked in and sat down and they gave me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the psychiatrist, room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, Kill, KILL!" And I started jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumping up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL!"

And the Sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

Arlo Guthrie


I was definitely in the service to prove myself. It was over twenty years after my discharge before I realized I was transgender, though.

Hugs, Devlyn
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BeverlyAnn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on June 11, 2016, 03:46:49 PM
I walked in and sat down and they gave me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the psychiatrist, room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, Kill, KILL!" And I started jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumping up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL!"

And the Sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."


Arlo Guthrie

"Didn't feel too good about it."  LOL
Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. - Oscar Wilde



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Sebby Michelango

Quote from: V M on June 11, 2016, 06:15:29 AM
Just curious, how old are you Sebby?

I'm born in year 2000. Maybe that's the reason I'm not so used to how the 1960 - 1970 works.

I think it's sad some people can be so mean and discriminate other people for being difference. Thanks everybody for replies at this thread. I'm glad the time changed from the 70s to now in many places in the world. Especially West-Europa and some places in the US has improved - become more LGBT friendly.
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Seshatneferw

First, to answer Sebby: it took me about 40 years and a Ph.D. to figure out that cis people exist. After that it was obvious I'm trans; before, I just figured that all boys want to be girls but most are better role-players than I. So for a while I tried harder.

Second, why the military: we have a conscription-based military over here, so it was the norm. Also, I tried to fit in (see above) until about halfway to my reserve officer course when something snapped (luckily not bad enough for me to say 'Well f* you too, Sir' aloud). That was the start of my trying to find a somewhat gender-non-conforming life that I could actually live, and since then I've come to realise that one can get away with lots of things. The military isn't what it used to be either: this winter, no-one batted an eye when I started using my third given name (the female one) instead of the first (which is male), although that was after they had already directed me to the women's side to change into uniform.
Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me.
-- Pete Conrad, Apollo XII
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Alex123

I served for 20 years, and knew I wanted to be female way before I joined.  It was a coping strategy to "cure" myself....and that was an unmitergated failure.  Dabbled on and off with HRT whilst still serving.
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