Vagina anatomy is all wrong

[allie0365]

Hi Serenation, what do mean by meshing? Thanks Allie

Meshing vs non meshing has more relevance

[Lady_Oracle]

As I understand it some surgeons aren't able to create a full labia minora that surrounds the vagina canal in the inital surgery. From everything I've read a labiaplasty aka revision can fix this aesthetic issue.

[karenpayneoregon]

No matter if things are not anatomically correct. it's best to wait until you are fully healed before considering a revision as with my post operative experience things looked different from hours after surgery to one month then to two months. Even if there is not significant changes you may very well find that the final outcome is acceptable.

[Serenation]

Hi Serenation, what do mean by meshing? Thanks Allie

I'm to queesy to look at mid surgery pics, but suporn basically punches lots of holes in the skin so it can stretch much further, I'm told he does this for the inner labia not just the vagina canal, that's why his the only one that doesn't require grafts from other sources if there's not enough materiel to work with.

[mmmmm]

I'm to queesy to look at mid surgery pics, but suporn basically punches lots of holes in the skin so it can stretch much further, I'm told he does this for the inner labia not just the vagina canal, that's why his the only one that doesn't require grafts from other sources if there's not enough materiel to work with.

Surgeons form labias with skin flaps. And this is what average meshing machine looks like:



Now, important question! Would you bring a patient to the machine, or would you bring a machine to the patient, to mesh her skin flaps?

[mmmmm]

... what do mean by meshing?

If you go to Dr. Chettawut (who uses normal scrotal graft) you get 6 inch depth. If you go to Dr. Suporn (who uses meshed scrotal graft) you get 7.5 inch from the same scrotum.

[Devlyn]

"The depth of the neovagina is usually limited by the length of the rectovesicle septum, typically 10 to 12 cm, or about 4 to 5 inches"

"The depth of the typical neovagina created by male-to-female sex reassignment surgery is generally limited by the length of Denonvilliers' fascia,[citation needed] and is reported to be between 11 and 12 cm (4.3-4.7 in), within the range of the natural female vagina."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vaginal_size

Hint: Your vagina isn't supposed to come out of your back.

[mmmmm]

"The depth of the neovagina is usually limited by the length of the rectovesicle septum, typically 10 to 12 cm, or about 4 to 5 inches"

"Maximum vaginal depth attained with the scrotal skin graft beyond the original position of the peritoneal reflection (Douglas Pouch). A minimum of 6.0" (15.25 cm) vaginal depth is guaranteed immediately after surgery in all cases of SRS. The modal average is 7.0" (17.8 cm) depth."

http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/SRS/srstechnique.aspx

[Devlyn]

"2016 Cadillac Escalade/MPG

Up to 15 city / 22 highway."

It doesn't actually get anywhere near that. It's called advertising for a reason.
Doesn't mean we have to fall for it. 

[mmmmm]

Doesn't mean we have to fall for it. 

Im happy to show you photos privately ... They made photos before surgery (where you can see lack of donor material), during surgery photos, immediately post surgery photos, 1 week after... and I can make a recent one.

 

[Devlyn]

No thanks. It's just my opinion, but I'd rather have a tight vagina the same size as a  healthy woman than some Wiley Coyote tunnel painted between my legs. To each their own, I guess.

[mmmmm]

I'd rather have a tight vagina the same size as a  healthy woman than some Wiley Coyote tunnel painted between my legs. To each their own, I guess.

Cis female vaginas are able to stretch, especially during arousal. 4" can become 7-8". SRS techniques are not there yet.

[TinaVane]

Cis female vaginas are able to stretch, especially during arousal. 4" can become 7-8". SRS techniques are not there yet.

You think it will ever get to that point ? And if so would the already post ops be able to get it considering they already been snipped ?


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[mmmmm]

You think it will ever get to that point ? And if so would the already post ops be able to get it considering they already been snipped ?

In a way its already possible. Colovaginoplasty with sigmoid colon or jejunal colon segment, makes a lot more cis-female like vaginal wall. Its just a lot riskier surgery, with quite higher rate of complications than more common skin inversion techniques. Partial vaginal prolapse is one of most concerning of those complications. Others are related to simply having more invasive surgery on intestinal area. Large percentage of patients report too excessive discharge, which can require use of panty liners. With sigmoid colon vaginoplasty you get quite visable scar in abdominal area, which can supposedly be avoided with jejunal segment vaginoplasty... In short: it sadly just isnt the ideal option. And for most people, the risks outweights the benefits. It is however commonly used as a revision vaginoplasty for cis and trans women.

Other option is vaginoplasty with mucos membrane as well... mucosa from cultured autologous oral epithelial cells. But its still in very early stages.. There has been various studies done on use for vaginoplasty on cis women, and one study with 6 patients which was done in Italy (2013-2014).. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24374675
It showed promising results short term... which sadly turned out for worse later, after papers were released. Study was planned to be repeated, but after all patients had severe complications, it was dropped.   
Still, its probably the best and most promising solution for MTF vaginoplasty in the future... but current science just isnt there yet.


... When it will become common practice, yes, you could have a revision vaginoplasty, if thats what you wish and more importantly need. I just dont see that many, who have otherwise a normal functional vagina, opting for mucosal revision without a very good reason behind it. 

[RubyAliza]

Cis female vaginas are able to stretch, especially during arousal. 4" can become 7-8". SRS techniques are not there yet.

Yeah I think this is what makes the sizes misleading. Stretch-ability makes the difference between cis and post op vaginas. That being said, the average cis, even when stretched is probably around 5 to 6 inches (my lady for example, 5 1/2 stretched).  Getting 7-9 stretched for a cis female is probably on the much deeper end, and most likely unnecessary for most guys, even with bigger penises. With big ones, most of the sensation doesn't come from the base of the shaft anyways but from the first 4-5 inches from the glans. Don't ask me how I know 

I get not wanting a deeper vagina. I'm only a little over 5 inches and I'm happy. But generally I find mmmmm to be very reliable, insightful, and smart, not one to give into false advertising. I trust what she says

- Ruby

[allie0365]

If you go to Dr. Chettawut (who uses normal scrotal graft) you get 6 inch depth. If you go to Dr. Suporn (who uses meshed scrotal graft) you get 7.5 inch from the same scrotum.

ah, thanks for the explanation!! What happens as the meshed tissue heals, does it form scar tissue? Could that possibly cause a tightness or constriction?

I'm curious because I'm having consults this fall and hopefully surgery next yea   

[DawnOday]

No thanks. It's just my opinion, but I'd rather have a tight vagina the same size as   a  healthy woman than some Wiley Coyote tunnel painted between my legs. To each their own, I guess.

                         X Beep, beep 

[mmmmm]

ah, thanks for the explanation!! What happens as the meshed tissue heals, does it form scar tissue? Could that possibly cause a tightness or constriction?

There is a lot of tissue contraction even with techniques where normal skin grafts are used (flaps make easier recovery in that regard). Use of meshed grafts makes scar tissue contractions even that much stronger. To oppose these contractions, so called dynamic dilation was introduced, which helps to break down scar tissue a lot more efficiently. Regular "static" dilation, simply wouldnt be enough.

[Serenation]

"Maximum vaginal depth attained with the scrotal skin graft beyond the original position of the peritoneal reflection (Douglas Pouch). A minimum of 6.0" (15.25 cm) vaginal depth is guaranteed immediately after surgery in all cases of SRS. The modal average is 7.0" (17.8 cm) depth."

http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/SRS/srstechnique.aspx

Don't believe everything you read from Suporn. His a brilliant salesman. As far depth goes you get what you get. Suporn just has to discard skin if he can't make the cavity as deep as his meshed grafts allows. People go to Suporn and get less than 6 inches, there is no actual guarantee, maybe it's lost in translation but you just go home with less than 6 inches.

If you have any proof of anyone actually getting their srs refunded because of this I'd like to hear it.

[Serenation]

If you go to Dr. Chettawut (who uses normal scrotal graft) you get 6 inch depth. If you go to Dr. Suporn (who uses meshed scrotal graft) you get 7.5 inch from the same scrotum.

That's probably misleading, the amount of skin available, with or without meshing does not equate to depth.It  It just removes one potential limitation.

This thread has totally derailed into a suporn fest.