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Excluding transgenders shouldn't stop gay bill

Started by LostInTime, October 22, 2007, 06:13:33 AM

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LostInTime

Daily 49er
Niki Payne
Issue date: 10/22/07 Section: Opinion

So what? Transgender people aren't included in the measure. Discrimination will still prevail regardless of what laws are enacted. It's human nature. We all have bias of some type, against something or someone that is not the same as us.

I just think this all-or-nothing mentality is completely bogus. Let's discriminate against the gays, not for their sexual orientation, but for not using their brains. Given the history of the LGBT community, you'd think it'd be a no-brainer.
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Lisbeth

"you'd think it'd be a no-brainer." 

Undoubtedly it is.  Anyone without a brain can see that is the answer.
"Anyone who attempts to play the 'real transsexual' card should be summarily dismissed, as they are merely engaging in name calling rather than serious debate."
--Julia Serano

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2011/09/transsexual-versus-transgender.html
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BeverlyAnn

At first I was outraged by the "betrayal" of TG people by Barney Frank and HRC.  But the more I think about it, I wonder why I, or for that matter, any TG person was surprised by this.  I mean lets face it, good old Barney is going to do whatever HRC wants him to do.  And, despite all protests to the contrary, HRC is not an activist group for the GLBT or even the GLB community...it is nothing more than a Political Action Committee for white, middle and upper class gay males.  Oh sure, they make LBT noise and therein lies the rub; the thing that angers so many people.  I mean if you want to be a group that represents left handed, red headed lesbians living in Omaha, that's fine...I have no problem with that as long as you specify that's what you're about.  But don't say that's what you are while making noise about being concerned for bi-sexual Cubans in Fort Lauderdale just to raise more money and that is exactly what HRC does.  It's a magic act that's all smoke, mirrors and misdirection to make us believe what we think we see, not what's real.

Beverly
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Sandy

Quote from: LostInTime on October 22, 2007, 06:13:33 AM
I just think this all-or-nothing mentality is completely bogus. Let's discriminate against the gays, not for their sexual orientation, but for not using their brains. Given the history of the LGBT community, you'd think it'd be a no-brainer.

I am so amazed that all the people who think that it's a no-brainer are all in the WGM group.  I have not heard one trans person agree with this increadibly stupid position.  Nor, really, have I heard any lesbian say that it was a no brainer either.

I just wonder if the opposite were true for the ENDA legislation and the move was to keep the transsexuals/transgender and drop the GLB group, would those same numbskulls still be saying "Yep! It's a no-brainer!"

We're all in this boat together.  We can't be throwing people overboard anytime somebody rocks the boat!

-Sandy(We shall hang together or we shall hang separately!)
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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Omika

Yeah, we're in the same boat alright.  They're the only ones that were nice enough to pull us out of the water, but we're still the lowest on the totem pole.

I'm going to come out (no pun intended) and say it.  I generally don't like homosexual men.  Maybe it's because people can't seem to make the distinction between an MtF transsexual like myself and them.

Now my step brother is gay and he's cool, but man, they sure do things that I don't understand/that piss me off/that make me wish it was just LGB and the T could go off and represent itself.  After all, this is NOT an issue of sexuality in the least.  I'm sick of this LGBT crap, but that's another talk for another time.

Screw these jerks.  Let's build our own boat.  Theirs can be for sexual orientation, and ours can be for gender identity. 

Lousy *expletive deleted*.  I'll show them.

~ BB
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Kate

Quote from: Kassandra on October 22, 2007, 01:53:18 PM
I am so amazed that all the people who think that it's a no-brainer are all in the WGM group.  I have not heard one trans person agree with this increadibly stupid position...

(raises hand)

I've agreed with it earlier, though I've since kinda changed my mind since seeing the outrage amoungst the GLB community over leaving the T behind. I didn't think keeping ENDA together was really a choice for the T community to make, since it MIGHT hold back the GLB segment. Plus, I agree that we - or at least I - don't have anything in common with the GLBs except for all of us being subject to discrimination by the same "types" of people. The catch-22 is lumping us (me) into a GLBT "community" also ironically makes me more likely to be discriminated against, IMHO.

BUT... it seems to be a necessary evil for now.

~Kate~
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ChildOfTheLight

Quote from: Blair on October 22, 2007, 02:39:28 PMScrew these jerks.  Let's build our own boat.  Theirs can be for sexual orientation, and ours can be for gender identity.

Sexual orientation, in any case, is dependent on gender identity.  And small boats are more likely to sink.

As I've posted elsewhere: blacks and Jews fought together for civil rights in the US.  They certainly didn't have anything in common beyond facing discrimination from the same kinds of people.  They had less in common with each other than GLBs with Ts.  Some Jews and some lighter-skinned blacks could pass as vanilla white people, the same way as some in the GLBT community can pass as straight cisgender people.

When that alliance broke up, blacks got the worst of it, partly because they were identifiable just by who they were, unless they were able to pass as white because of being light-skinned and then lied about their race.  Which of the separate boats that some of you want to construct does this sound more like?
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Kate

Quote from: ChildOfTheLight on October 22, 2007, 03:17:22 PM
As I've posted elsewhere: blacks and Jews fought together for civil rights in the US.

True, but the public didn't confuse the two groups. Artificially sticking me into the GLB "community" screams to everyone that my transitioning was sexually motivated, reinforcing a stereotype I SO badly want to distance myself from.

~Kate~
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Omika

Quote from: Kate on October 22, 2007, 03:32:16 PM
Quote from: ChildOfTheLight on October 22, 2007, 03:17:22 PM
As I've posted elsewhere: blacks and Jews fought together for civil rights in the US.

True, but the public didn't confuse the two groups. Artificially sticking me into the GLB "community" screams to everyone that my transitioning was sexually motivated, reinforcing a stereotype I SO badly want to distance myself from.

~Kate~

Ayep.
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melissa90299

I don't understand why some transsexuals deny that they fall under the "gay" umbrella. As far as being lumped into the LGB category, I can only wish that I live to see the day that discrimination against isn't any worse than what the average gay man or woman faces.
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SusanK

The truth of someone's values, when it comes down to the real decisions, isn't what or who they include but what or who the exclude. And while it's clear many LGB and women's groups support transpeople in the struggle for acceptance and for rights and protections from injustice and discrimination, many of these same have shown their true and real values. In their world TG and DQ's are mere entertainment, and CD's belong to the straight world. And transpeople just aren't.

If there was a real chance of ENDA being signed by Bush does anyone really think the LBG community would really be on our side if they knew we were the proverbial boat anchor? The truth is no politician is going to jeopardize their election next year voting for an all-inclusive ENDA bill and no LGB group is going to support it in 2009 when the next (Democratic) President will sign it if the circumstances stay the same.

Just my view of a biased world.

--Susan--
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