My VFS with Dr. Haben

[GeekGirl]

I did see it close all the way at times during my recital of The Rainbow Passage, but it looked more like that (a teardrop shaped hole) than not. I suspect that could be contributing to how my voice sounds. It should probably be much higher than what I have now based on how much of my cords have been stitched up.

[anjaq]

Ok - so that is a glottal gap there - the issue it can cause is some breathiness and maybe not the volume that you want. I had this before I had the surgery but it was corrected with it. It can be caused by 2 things I know of - either muscle tension (Dr Kim gives Botox for that) because of having learned to sound more breathy deliberately to sound more feminine before the surgery - so that cna be trained out. Or it can be caused by scarring near the tip of the V or U - this is not uncommon with Wendler Glottoplasty, especially when using stitches that dissolve after 4 weeks or if a laser was used to cut the area - one has to hope that the scar tissue at that point will get soft with time or maybe if it is granulation it may recede. I prefer Dr Kims method of not causing much scarring in that area evne if the tradeoff is to have permanent sutures in the throat.

[GeekGirl]

I do notice a strange phenomenon that has happened to someone else in this forum... when my voice is strained from being overused or in recent days due to a cold, my voice sounds like there's this squeaky second version on top of it... as if a mouse is speaking in unison with my own voice. Usually there's a lot of phlegm in my throat.

I also notice that the more calm and relaxed I am, the more easily my voice sounds as it should. However, the more I use my voice during the day, the more it becomes strained and gravitates to a lower pitch. There's still this mental hurdle I have to overcome where I'm subconsciously forcing my voice to pitch down to make it sound like it did pre-surgery.

The people in my life who hear me speak daily don't notice any dramatic changes, but when I play back what my old voice sounded like, they are floored by the difference. In crowded environments, it's very difficult for me to be heard, but as I said in a previous post, that is a welcome change from having to be loud and male-sounding.

[Dena]

It was about month 7 that I felt my volume and endurance start to improve and at a year and 4 months there are still times that I feel I may be overusing it. I try not to use more volume that is required as I feel my voice get a bit rougher if I tend to use higher volume over a long period of time. Healing from this take a long time and I suspect because the geometry of the vocal cords has changed as the result of the surgery, we need to adopt a slightly different way of speaking to properly use the voice for the best results.

[GeekGirl]

6 Month-ish update: I haven't posted in a while, so here is what's happening to me almost 6 months out post-op. I would like to say that there's nothing new to report and progress is happening slowly, but that's not the case. In some cases, progress has regressed, but more due to my own fault than anyone else. Whenever I overuse my voice (e.g. yell something out during a busy bartending night, belt out yoga instructions over music so I can be heard, or scold my kids), it takes about a week or so to recover from it. My voice gets really raspy and almost unusable for the first day or two. It starts getting better a few days later, but then it sounds quite androgynous before it settles down and gets back to normal.

My volume is still very low. Over the phone, it's fine because phone mics amplify your voice, but in person it really is pretty hard to hear me if there is any background noise. I teach yoga with a headset now and it's unlikely I'll be able to do so without a headset from now on. As I stated previously, this is a blessing to me because my loud voice was always one of the factors that negatively impacted my voice passability.

I am a bit sad that the highest note I can reasonably sing right now is C#4 (280Hz). I can go highter, but it crackles. I can sing as low as C#3 (136Hz). My tone without placing my voice is about G3 (199Hz). Placing it I can easily sing A3 (225Hz). But that's a very limited range from what I used to be able to sing. I suppose there's still a lot of healing that needs to take place, so more time has to pass and more forced rest has to take place for me to improve.

Anyways, I'm very hopeful. My voice does sound better now than before.

On another note, has anyone tried Ingo Titze's straw intonation exercises? Will this help my new voice or should I hold off on it?

[anjaq]

What was your vocal range before the surgery? I was back to a range of 130-600 Hz at about month 2 and later I recovered most of the upper part, although some remains lost. But 280 Hz as the highest possible note seems pretty low. That is still below the passagio - so you are stuck in the "chest voice" and cannot go over the passagio into the head voice?

One thing I learned was that shouting or speaking loudly now means you have to go up in pitch - there is a reason why girls have a "girlish" scream or squeak - it just works better on these vocal folds. So ifI have to speak up now, I go up in pitch , which gives me more volume and more control over the voice.

I think the straw exercises are similar to the laxvox, designed to keep a constant airflow and take out tension. I believe they are probably a good thing, why not try it - I do not think any harm will be done by them - worst case is you do not see any effect

[GeekGirl]

Yes, 280Hz is the highest note I can reasonably sing without crackling. When I yell, my voice really squeaks. It starts off loud and then when I get too loud it sounds like a high-pitched squeak or yelp, something inhuman and otherworldly, like from a horror movie. It's like the sound my doggie used to make when I accidentally stepped on her tail.

I'm wondering if this has something to do with the first surgery. I had the triple so Dr. Haben did the thing where he pulled the vocal cords tighter through an incision in the neck. At that time, my vocal cords didn't stay attached (hence why my voice didn't change and I needed the second surgery). I wonder if just having the vocal cords tightened and allowing it to heal that way prevents me from getting all of the lost range between 280Hz and the high-pitched squeak/yelp (which is clearly super high in Hz).

Or, maybe I'm a really slow healer and the best is yet to come.

[GeekGirl]

One more thing to consider is from the pics of my vocal cords on the day after surgery, there was a huge scar tissue bump sitting near my vocal cords. I suppose it's possible that this could be affecting my pitch.

[Dena]

The higher pitch was very slow to develop for me. Your vocal cords need to be flexible to hit the higher note and my were swollen for a long time reducing the upper range. For a while, the best I could hit was 500HZ. Somewhere along the line  I was playing with my voice and I discovered I could hit 700Hz. I think the remaining swelling went away giving me the additional range.

Dr Haben says healing can take up to 6 months but I suspect for some of us a year is closer to the truth.

[kwala]

Yes, 280Hz is the highest note I can reasonably sing without crackling. When I yell, my voice really squeaks. It starts off loud and then when I get too loud it sounds like a high-pitched squeak or yelp, something inhuman and otherworldly, like from a horror movie. It's like the sound my doggie used to make when I accidentally stepped on her tail.

I'm wondering if this has something to do with the first surgery. I had the triple so Dr. Haben did the thing where he pulled the vocal cords tighter through an incision in the neck. At that time, my vocal cords didn't stay attached (hence why my voice didn't change and I needed the second surgery). I wonder if just having the vocal cords tightened and allowing it to heal that way prevents me from getting all of the lost range between 280Hz and the high-pitched squeak/yelp (which is clearly super high in Hz).

Or, maybe I'm a really slow healer and the best is yet to come.

Geek Girl, I would get a second opinion. At that point post op you should not be experiencing this many problems. In my case, I just kept waiting for months and months for my voice to slowly start coming back... and sadly it never did. It wasn't until I saw another reputable ENT who, after looking at my cords, said that without any doubt the type of scarring I had was permanent and not part of a healing process. Another doctor can tell you what to expect and if there are any options to improve the quality of your voice. Good luck, and hoping the best for you!

[GeekGirl]

Geek Girl, I would get a second opinion. At that point post op you should not be experiencing this many problems. In my case, I just kept waiting for months and months for my voice to slowly start coming back... and sadly it never did. It wasn't until I saw another reputable ENT who, after looking at my cords, said that without any doubt the type of scarring I had was permanent and not part of a healing process. Another doctor can tell you what to expect and if there are any options to improve the quality of your voice. Good luck, and hoping the best for you!

I'm not going to be quick to jump to any conclusions yet because it took a year for my GRS wounds to heal due to necrosis and other problems. So far, the surgery that has caused the least trouble and has given me the most satisfactory results is my breast augmentation, but that's a relatively easy surgery compared to the others. There are some days in which I can hear my voice and think "Wow, this sounds really nice" and then there are other days when I've overused my voice the day before and end up sounding like Demi Moore with a cold. One positive note of encouragement is last night after my yoga class, one of my students said to me, "You have such a calm, soothing voice!" I haven't heard that kind of compliment in many months.

[GeekGirl]

6 Month voice sample: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KIfkmnI1OY

[KimSails]

Hi Geek Girl,

I hear your voice as androgynous at times and very female at times in your recording -- this according to my untrained ear.

Curiously, I think you really sound the best (great, really) at the end of your recording, from the spot at which you mention that your voice gets tired and gravel-y.  I don't hear the gravel at all, I just hear a woman's voice.

I am about 7 weeks since my surgery with Dr. Haben.  Still a lot of laryngitis sound.  I'll be pretty happy if I can sound like you in another 4 1/2 months.

[Dena]

The inflection sound good but your pitch is still on the low side. If you are not already, you will still need to use a head voice in order to move your voice into the feminine range. You should be working with Praat or a pitch meter in order to get your ear used to the correct pitch and in case you don't already know it, the following link will tell you what to look for.

http://www.nyspeechandvoicelab.net/transgender/voice-feminization/

[Miss Lux]

I'm not going to be quick to jump to any conclusions yet because it took a year for my GRS wounds to heal due to necrosis and other problems. So far, the surgery that has caused the least trouble and has given me the most satisfactory results is my breast augmentation, but that's a relatively easy surgery compared to the others. There are some days in which I can hear my voice and think "Wow, this sounds really nice" and then there are other days when I've overused my voice the day before and end up sounding like Demi Moore with a cold. One positive note of encouragement is last night after my yoga class, one of my students said to me, "You have such a calm, soothing voice!" I haven't heard that kind of compliment in many months.

Geekgirl,
I hope you are doing well...my experience is similar - it varies from day to day . There are days that I sound really good and there are days that I too sound like Demi Moore with a cold but I would'nt exchange it for my old voice... Now I can talk without thinking of placing my voice... Even on it's worse state it is passable/ feminine enough....U r one of my VFS inspiration . Take care !.... I listened to ur 6th month recording.... D rainbow passage is on the androgynous to neautral zone but when u were talking casually it sounded feminine to me and compared to your pre surgery voice for me it is a huge improvement....

[GeekGirl]

Thank you kind ladies!

Yes, I'm quite aware of the androgyny in my voice, especially when I read things like the Rainbow Passage and even on the phone sometimes. I think I know why. I think it's ingrained in me to read things a certain way and talk over the phone a certain way. I have to shake myself out of old habits. I think the best way to describe the times when my voice sounds androgynous is imagine a female voice pitched lower. It sounds a little weird and people can't really tell what gender I am unless I add lots of intonation, inflection, and proper movement/phrasing. Dr. Haben told me "you just gotta' relax and let the new voice come out." I think the biggest problem I have is my brain is still wired to try to eke out the old voice within the confines of the new voice. I don't want this to happen, but sometimes it happens.

I noticed that my best voice comes out when I'm not talking very loudly. The problem with this is most of the time I'm required to talk loudly, especially to the people I interact with daily (I'm in IT support during the day and I teach yoga on Thursday nights). That puts a strain on my voice and then I feel as if all the healing that's happened was for naught... like 2 steps forward and 1 or 2 steps back every day.

(to KimSails) Thanks Kim! I believe when I'm just talking, I'm relaxed, so that's when my best voice comes out. Best wishes to your healing!

(to Dena) You hit the nail right on the head. I've not been using my head voice much or at all since my surgery. I think I've taken a lot of things for granted so far because in the early stages (about 1-2 months out) when I started talking I had this nice pitch going in my voice and that was because I wasn't straining my voice at all. My  mentors in yoga are always telling me "You have to teach using your chest voice!" so that's a little ingrained in me to just use the old ways of speaking that I'm familiar with. I know, I have to stop doing that.

(to Miss Lux) Thanks for making me one of your VFS inspirations! There is not a day that goes by where I feel any regrets with doing VFS. It was a necessary surgery for me.

[Inarasarah]

I worry about voice strain too with my upcoming VFS.  Like you Geekgirl, I have to speak up a lot in my job (as a consultant) and through my role as a coach.  I am hoping that the post surgical voice training will help me to maintain that "head voice" when I am projecting my voice to the back seats, as my old theater director use to tell us. 

I did hear that it takes time and a lot of work.  Once I have some results, I will also post them for y'all.