Questions About Future Parenting Options for (Literal) Eunuchs

[Futurist]

Anyway, as you hopefully know, I am someone who wants to become a very feminine (literal) eunuch (in large part due to my own hostility at the idea of me ever being forced to pay child support for an unwanted child of mine); indeed, given my own attitudes towards (hypothetical future) unwanted children of mine, it would certainly be extremely immoral for me not to get an orchiectomy (after I will actually become able to afford it, of course).

However, presumably just like many cis-women who get elective abortions after having consensual penis-in-vagina sex, I myself certainly do want to eventually become a parent. Of course, I certainly want to only have one or two daughters (or trans-sons, if fate will lead to that); indeed, since I have certainly developed a type of latent misandry (Yes, you certainly read that correctly) over the last several years, I certainly don't want to have a (cis-)son due to the fact that I certainly don't think that I can ever be a good parent to a (cis-)son.

Thus, I have several questions for everyone here:

1. How much sperm am I going to need to freeze before I will actually get an orchiectomy if I want to have two daughters (in the event that adoption will not work out for me, that is)?
2. What are the chances of me eventually (once I will actually be ready to do this, that is) being able to adopt two White daughters (I'm sorry, but I certainly want my future daughters to look like me)?
3. In the event that, for whatever reason, adoption will not work out for me, would I be able to use modern technology to choose the sex of my future children (by manipulating my own sperm and/or by manipulating donor sperm, that is)?

Anyway, any thoughts on this?

[AnxietyDisord3r]

From what I can tell, adoption of a baby costs as much or more as fertility treatments, low to mid five figures. Even if you can't freeze your sperm, you could pick out sperm from a sperm bank from a donor who resembles you physically so your kids look like you if you are using a surrogate or having a kid with a future partner.  Actually, sperm bank + willing female partner is by far the cheapest option. Once you get into surrogates and donor eggs and so on it gets really expensive.

I have no idea about how much sperm you would need to freeze--I would ask a fertility clinic about that or check out some fertility forums.

[Futurist]

From what I can tell, adoption of a baby costs as much or more as fertility treatments, low to mid five figures. Even if you can't freeze your sperm, you could pick out sperm from a sperm bank from a donor who resembles you physically so your kids look like you if you are using a surrogate or having a kid with a future partner.  Actually, sperm bank + willing female partner is by far the cheapest option. Once you get into surrogates and donor eggs and so on it gets really expensive.

I have no idea about how much sperm you would need to freeze--I would ask a fertility clinic about that or check out some fertility forums.

Thank you very much for all of this information!

Also, though, please keep in mind that I would almost certainly be willing to pay more if I will be able to ensure that I will have one or two girls (or trans-boys, for that matter); indeed, I simply don't think that I could be a good father to a straight or straight-leaning cis-boy.

[kelly_aus]

You'll find most reproductive medicine places won't let you choose the sex of the baby as it is considered unethical..

[Futurist]

You'll find most reproductive medicine places won't let you choose the sex of the baby as it is considered unethical..

Why exactly is it considered to be unethical, though?

Indeed, from a pro-life perspective, this certainly appears to be much more ethical than, say, aborting embryos and fetuses with Down's Syndrome.

[kelly_aus]

One word - Eugenics..

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[Xirafel]

I doubt they'll let you choose the sex of the child in the Western World.
Maybe, somewhere like China where they give the finger to western ethics.

Even removing genetic diseases results in people raging about the super rich possibly creating "designer babies".

[Futurist]

One word - Eugenics..

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If that's eugenics, why exactly isn't aborting fetuses with Down's Syndrome likewise eugenics, though?

[Jacqueline]

There are other ethical concerns as well that have nothing to do with either "Pro Choice" or "Pro Life".

Many mothers giving up their children for adoption are in a vulnerable spot. Telling them they are now being denied due to their child's gender could be further traumatizing.

It also shows a certain selfish nature/interest on the part of the adoptive parent.  It seems to weigh the desires of the adoptive parents over the needs of the child. It is a hotly debated subject right now and some (US at least) services and lawyers will allow one to specify. However, the agencies that see this as an issue would hope/expect the adoptive parent (like a biological parent) may prefer one gender but will love, support and nurture any child that comes into their lives.

I don't think anyone can know what child is going to be a trans. While I can understand you stating you are not sure if you could be a good parent to a cis boy, it seems speculative. If you are a good parent, it can shift to either gender. Not to mention that children only rarely turn out so cis as to be on one end of the spectrum or another. This site is a testament of that. Girls don't have to have "pink toys, clothes,rooms nor do boys have to have "blue" ones.

Additionally it often takes longer to adopt a specific gender due to two facts. Half the babies born are male. Statistics show that many more adoptive parents, if given the choice, would prefer a girl over a boy. Higher demand means longer wait time.

At the risk of offending you, I think adoption agencies would see a red flag go up if you phrased your desires this way

one or two girls (or trans-boys...

Part of their jobs are to place wanting parents with needing children. However, part of it is to check suitability and stability. That phrase may not help you in that particular situation.

Good luck,

Joanna

[Futurist]

I doubt they'll let you choose the sex of the child in the Western World.
Maybe, somewhere like China where they give the finger to western ethics.

Even removing genetic diseases results in people raging about the super rich possibly creating "designer babies".

Frankly, I certainly think that Western ethics are extremely screwed-up in regards to this!

Also, out of curiosity--is sex selection (and race selection, for that matter) possible with adoption?

[Futurist]

1. There are other ethical concerns as well that have nothing to do with either "Pro Choice" or "Pro Life".

2. Many mothers giving up their children for adoption are in a vulnerable spot. Telling them they are now being denied due to their child's gender could be further traumatizing.

3. It also shows a certain selfish nature/interest on the part of the adoptive parent.  It seems to weigh the desires of the adoptive parents over the needs of the child.

4. It is a hotly debated subject right now and some (US at least) services and lawyers will allow one to specify. However, the agencies that see this as an issue would hope/expect the adoptive parent (like a biological parent) may prefer one gender but will love, support and nurture any child that comes into their lives.

5. I don't think anyone can know what child is going to be a trans. While I can understand you stating you are not sure if you could be a good parent to a cis boy, it seems speculative. If you are a good parent, it can shift to either gender. Not to mention that children only rarely turn out so cis as to be on one end of the spectrum or another. This site is a testament of that. Girls don't have to have "pink toys, clothes,rooms nor do boys have to have "blue" ones.

6. Additionally it often takes longer to adopt a specific gender due to two facts. Half the babies born are male. Statistics show that many more adoptive parents, if given the choice, would prefer a girl over a boy. Higher demand means longer wait time.

7. At the risk of offending you, I think adoption agencies would see a red flag go up if you phrased your desires this way  Part of their jobs are to place wanting parents with needing children. However, part of it is to check suitability and stability. That phrase may not help you in that particular situation.

Good luck,

Joanna

1. Such as what, exactly?

2. Yes, and? After all, one certainly doesn't have to adopt any children!

3. And things such as aborting Down's Syndrome embryos and fetuses isn't selfish?

4. Look--I am certainly capable of doing this; however, having a straight or straight-leaning cis-male son would certainly cause me to have much more emotional trauma than I would have with a different child of mine.

5. Frankly, please let me say this--my own detestation of both males' inclination towards aggression (due to the testosterone in their systems) and males' testicles (which is especially relevant in regards to unplanned pregnancy) certainly makes me extremely unwilling to have or adopt a straight or straight-leaning cis-son (a gay or gay-leaning cis-son would be somewhat better for me--but certainly not ideal--due to the fact that I at least won't have to worry about him whining to me about his Vasalgel injection (and/or whatever) failing, though ).

6. Well, I will certainly be able to wait in regards to this.

7. So, would they prefer that a child not be adopted at all? After all, isn't there currently a shortage of adoptive parents here in the U.S.?

[Futurist]

Also, I certainly don't get why exactly abortion is considered to be ethical but not sex selection in regards to embryos? Indeed, surely sex selection in regards to embryos is much more ethical than this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/05/health/05essa.html

[Xirafel]

Even if parents would prefer adopting a cis-girl over a cis-boy, few would want to adopt a trans girl over a cis-boy. And if the system actually took them away from abusive parents, they would flood the system.

We're demonised by the media as sexual predators after-all.

[Futurist]

Even if parents would prefer adopting a cis-girl over a cis-boy, few would want to adopt a trans girl over a cis-boy.

Well, I myself am certainly an exception to this rule! Indeed, I certainly think that I will be just as good of a father to a trans-girl that I would be to a cis-girl!

And if the system actually took them away from abusive parents, they would flood the system.

OK; understood. Indeed, <not Allowed> transphobia and transphobia hatred and abuse!

We're demonised by the media as sexual predators after-all.

Yes, unfortunately. Indeed, how about people actually bother to try educating themselves in regards to this issue?

Moderator Edit: No foul language please.

[Futurist]

Indeed, for me, the choice between a trans-girl and any cis-boy is certainly a no-brainer--the trans-girl would certainly win every time!

[Jacqueline]

Futurist,

You seem very caught up in the abortion issue. I was answering what other ethical issues one might have. In answer to your #1 question, most of the rest of my post.

I don't quite understand your response about a potentially traumatized mother giving up her child for adoption. Your response seems more focused on the adoptive parent.

I may or may not agree with you about children diagnosed with Down's Syndrome. That however, is another ethical debate. Different subject.

Raising children to become adults is a challenge. It is really hard.  Cis, trans, fluid... Any of them. As I mentioned, adoption agencies want parents who are not likely to have emotional trauma regardless of the child's gender or gender identity.

I am tired and have to go to bed soon. I mostly wanted to let you know there are more ethical questions. Nothing is black and white.

Have a good evening,

Joanna

PS You posted since I finished. So I will have to edit out one of your word choices before I hit the sack.

[Futurist]

Futurist,

1. You seem very caught up in the abortion issue. I was answering what other ethical issues one might have. In answer to your #1 question, most of the rest of my post.

OK.

2. I don't quite understand your response about a potentially traumatized mother giving up her child for adoption. Your response seems more focused on the adoptive parent.

Basically, the point of my response is that while an adoptive mother can be traumatized further by me refusing to adopt a child of a particular sex, she should also keep in mind that I certainly don't have to adopt any child at all!

I may or may not agree with you about children diagnosed with Down's Syndrome. That however, is another ethical debate. Different subject.

OK.

Raising children to become adults is a challenge. It is really hard.  Cis, trans, fluid... Any of them. As I mentioned, adoption agencies want parents who are not likely to have emotional trauma regardless of the child's gender or gender identity.

Even if my own emotional trauma is limited to straight and straight-leaning cis-boys?

I am tired and have to go to bed soon. I mostly wanted to let you know there are more ethical questions. Nothing is black and white.

OK.

PS You posted since I finished. So I will have to edit out one of your word choices before I hit the sack.

OK; good.

[Futurist]

1. Other parents don't get the choice, why should you?

2. Adoption is a choice made by people wanting to be parents..

3. I'd argue it was and I certainly don't support it.. But it is an entirely different ethical discussion.

4. In that case, you should probably avoid being a parent at all.. This is not an appropriate attitude for a potential parent to have.

5. Aggression is as much learned as it is caused by hormones.

6. Blaming men for unplanned pregnancies is only fair 50% of the time - I know fathers who were lied to about birth control.

7. Frankly, the misogyny displayed here is a huge red flag for any potential adoption agency - as you may pass that same sexist attitude on to any possible children.

1. Make this option available for everyone; there--problem solved!

2. Yes, I certainly know this.

3. OK.

4. Why exactly would it matter if I am not raising a straight or straight-leaning cis-boy, though?

5. Source, please?

6. Frankly, men who don't want to become parents can get their testicles surgically removed just like I myself intend to do; indeed, if that's too much for them, then they can get rid of both their entire vas deferens and their epididymis.

7. Misogyny? Indeed, I certainly don't appear to exhibit any misogyny here.

Frankly, are you thinking of misandry here?

[V M]

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