Understanding Transgender Ideas

[JoanneB]

Hi everyone,

I'll start with the disclaimer that am the pinnacle of privilege that is the straight cis white male.  So, I suppose that may be the source of some of my difficulty grasping issues I never have to deal with.  I do have a good friend that is a transwoman and I fully support trans rights.  However, I feel like I am failing to grasp the ideas I am encountering in my position adjacent to transgender advocacy.  Speaking to my friend about my questions has mostly just proven a bit stressful for her.  And I am of the opinion she has enough to deal with without having to take on more stress in order to satisfy my curiosities.

Anyway, it's quite possible my confusion has to do with the fact much of the information I've gathered has come from the fairly chaotic source that is the Facebook news feed.  But the culprit may also simply be I'm being too pedantic, and need to let go of my desire to learn a comprehensive and consistent understanding of ->-bleeped-<-.  But I figured I'd check and see if anyone out there is feeling kind enough to indulge / enlighten me.

I suppose the easiest way to do this would be explain my understanding of gender and then have people point out additional information I should know or otherwise explain mistakes in my thinking.

I am atheist; though one that has a neutral-positive view of religion.  Essentially I am of the opinion that if your religion makes you happier, and/or helps you treat others in a better way, more power to you.  I currently have a similar view of gender.  I might be considered agender, or perhaps universally agender?  Anyway, I think that genders are a construct society has created (but not something anchored in any objective truth) that people are usually born into and occasionally people find doesn't fit them and thus switch to another.
 
Initially I thought that the trans community had a similar view, often seeing the statement made that sex was biological, but gender a creation of society.  However I have slowly started to get the impression that the community view gender is an objective biological reality.  Mostly in the form of seeing people cite studies showing some differences in MRI scans of transgender brain.  This has confused me further, aren't these studies arguing the opposite of the general principle of being trans?  That you're the gender you identity with, not the one determined by your biology?  Individual brain variance is pretty high.  If someone was assigned male at birth, then identified as female, but scans did not indicate a transgender brain would she not really be transgender?

Tip of the iceberg on my confusion I suppose, but thank you all in advance for your thoughts.

Oh how I love lobbing hand-grenades....

But first, the peace pipe. TG people are by nature and circumstance.... defensive and paranoid. Actually it is not paranoia when you know they are out to get you. So her being "Defensive" is like a defensive mechanism born out from years of battling people who had no clue.

Now for the meat... Gender is biology. Biology is Destiny. BTW-Gender is not just the dangly, or lack of, bits. Religion, Societal 'Norms' in general, and many other factors around us define what is "Male" and what is "Female".  Having an "Innie" or an "Outie" is an easy way to define people. Media, and esp "(anti)Social media" exert tremendous peer-pressure, which is why they were invented. The purpose is the same as it has been for a millennia, only the messages have changed. Religion has nuttin to do with nuttin, just an extension of peer-pressure as to "What is "Normal"'. The Jerry Springer's of the worlds as well as the .... I cannot say the name of the state.... love targets. Especially easy "low hanging fruit (pardon the pun)" targets. My life sucks and... Hey... You need to die

OK  I digressed... Bad week at blackrock

If you listen to the wizards of smart, there are a lot of "reasons" why I "MAY" be TG. Today I read the Pope says .... (bite tongue)  At the end of the day, the reason or reasons why I am what I am do not matter. I am what I am. Medical science cannot do more then what they already can to help me manage this.... dis-ease I have had for about as long as I can remember.

The "Anti" trans crowd loves citing "Scientific" evidence every bit as much as the pro trans crowd does. Again, reality says I cannot effective change either camps opinions. So again, it is a personal choice.

During and still to today,  "North Carolina" can trigger me. THe Jenner fallout was just a warm up exercise. I thought I was hardened to all the BS after years being a chameleon and the reality check of being part of the Maryland Trans-Rights bill legal process. (Otherwise known as dealing with the "Bathroom" nuts)

There is a LOT of HATE out there. Few can let that flow through us 

[JLT1]

Hi,

How's your math skills?

Imagine a gaussian bell curve. Label the curve "male and penis".  X axis is "masculinity going to feminity", Y axis is population.  So, we have manly men and more feminine men.  Do the same so women on a curve "female and vagina" offest on the feminine side.  Now we have feminine women and more masculine women. Draw a single line where the two curges overlap.  Remember, the curve extends fom 0 to infinity.  What is in the middle, where the two curves overlap? Where the male cure crosses the vagina cure and the femail curve crosses the penis line? Men with vaginas and women with a penis. 

I can graph it but not on my cell...

Hugs

Jen

[Heather14]

I was born male...not a choice I could make. When I was a child I interacted with females with ease and with males it always seemed, well boring. I grew up in an era where gender roles were clearly defined in public. Guys worked on cars and girls wore dresses and kept house. I preferred a dress. I never discussed how I wanted to be a girl with my mother but I think deep down she knew. She found some of her things in my drawers and did not remove them. As I grew I fell into the gender role of being a man. Married, had kids, job and other male aligned things. I didn't hate that role but knew it was society dictating that and not me. The knowledge of what I wanted my gender to be never lessened but grew over my lifetime. I am now divorced, kids in college and nearing retirement. I am now going to live the rest of my life how I want to be.

The problem with wanting to be a girl is not mine but societies problem. Like buttons on a shirt, right for male and left for female. What difference would it make for every shirt to have buttons just on one side. Why would I have been beaten up for wearing a dress or skirt to school when I was a child. Because society said I had to be beat. It's funny how it is ok to like different food, colors, cars, movies and on and on. But knowing you are a different gender inside than outside and wanting to be that inside gender is not ok as determined by society.

I didn't hate myself for being male, but I love myself for being female.

Heather

[Dee Marshall]

Perhaps I can help a bit by appealing to another function of the human body, but first this important tidbit and it is a little informative of your question.

TRANS PEOPLE CAN NO MORE UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE CIS THAN CIS PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE TRANS.

That points to a basic structural difference. If being trans was or could be a choice then we would know what it's like to be you because we would have started that way and you could get a glimmer of what it's like to be us.

Now, let's look at speech. An infant is born recognizing AND reproducing every phoneme humans are capable of using. This is due both to a shared physical structure and because of basic shared pathways in the brain. The social part comes in when the infant ceases to use or even recognize phonemes not used in there culture. A native Japanese speaker will not recognize the difference between "l" and "r" as an example. A person with some difference in the associated brain structure will not be able to use a perfectly formed voicebox to speak as others do even if they are otherwise perfectly normal. Basic brain structure underlays social changes.

The big difference is that there are a host of minor differences in brain structure between what is associated with male genitalia and what is associated with female genitalia. Many of them are likely artifactual and make no significant difference. All of them may or may not exist in any one individual. Brain development is a crap shoot. A big one is preference for competition versus cooperation. This difference is the basis of a lot of the differences between gender roles. There are many many others.

Also, as many people have said, the body having, post birth, the wrong balance of sex hormones can cause distress to brain structures that were laid out to operate under the other balance.

Physical layout is also structured in the brain. It expects two arms, two legs and, I believe, breasts on bodies with female brains. As to the genetalia, there is reason to believe that, for most purposes the two common structures send the same signals to the brain and at most times the differences can be ignored which may be why some transgender people are comfortable with their birth configuration in that area. Then again it could also be sour grapes. Surgery to correct that is expensive, rarely covered under medical insurance and, for about half of our population, has disappointing results.

My, this turned out long and pedantic. I haven't dredged this stuff up in some time. I'm not sure I would have the patience to read all this.

[laurenb]

"Imagine a gaussian bell curve.", Jen, maybe it's more Rayleigh distribution (and it's reverse on the left) but that's just me being nerdy

Anyhow, Curious, while the underpinnings of the biology of Transness has not been adequately explored in humans, it has been observed in nature all over the place (as with variances in sexuality - but remember it's not the same thing). See Joan Roughgardens fascinating book "Evolutions Rainbow: Diversity, Gender and Sexuality in Nature and People" for mind blowing descriptions of other species that have multiple genders and some that have changeable genders.

https://www.amazon.com/Evolutions-Rainbow-Diversity-Gender-Sexuality/dp/0520260120

If it exists across many species then this means that there is a biological and evolutionary basis to being Trans. It's not "all in our mind", a fetish or culturally derived.

What is contrived, however, is the strict gender binary in our western culture as if there were no alternatives. Any anthropological study turns up many, many cases of Transgender humans throughout history, especially pre-history. Yes, we were rare then and still are - see Jen's Bell curve discussion.

Further study of history shows that when primarily patriarchal cultures became dominant (read Abrahamic religions mostly), we along with any other gender variant persons were suppressed and oppressed ... and still are to this day. Why? because we threaten the privilege of males and that wonderful status quo. Ta Da - there you are. 

Ironically, in those older cultures, Trans, Queer and Third Gender folks were highly valued culturally in many cases (I've not read any counter examples BTW). In fact, Trans folks often held positions of great power and influence (see Raven Kaldera's writing).

So I want to thank you for checking your male and cis privilege and inquiring directly to Trans people. It's a breath of fresh air when that happens. We're so used to being "cis-speaked" to by people who think they know something about being Trans when there's no way for them to actually have a clue (usually while ignoring both the science and the history).

Best,
Lauren

[MeghanMe]

Now for the most part, A people like their Pizza, and the Bs like their hamburgers. But some people who got classified as As decide they like hamburgers, and want to transition to B people. And vice versa.

Well, here's part of the problem. Do you really *decide* to like hamburgers? I don't. I try them, and either I like them or I don't. There's no calculus about nutrition vs. mouth feel vs. the ratio of savory to sweet.

I'm a woman, but not because I like wearing skirts. I did no math related to privilege when I decided to transition. I'm a woman because I'm a woman: Trans people experience gender identity as a base fact. There's no arguing it, just as there's no arguing that I actually hate the taste of that hamburger because it has too much sodium. Do you see?

You talk about privilege, so you must understand that some things non-privileged people experience, think, and feel are invisible to you. Not only haven't you experienced, thought, or felt them, but you can't sense the distinction... You don't realize that these things *can* be experienced, thought, or felt. You need to trust your friend to tell you her truth, and not push her on how she can feel what is to her a basic truth of her existence.

"Whipping Girl" is an extremely good book if you really want to educate yourself about these things.

[Deborah]

Let me try to say the same thing some others have said.  The idea that we want to transition into something else isn't really correct.  In our minds we already are that something else.  Some of us have had to hide it and many have hidden it very well.  Nevertheless, we have always been that something else. 

So what is called transition is simply bringing the outside into some kind of consistency with the inside.  This is necessary because when they are not consistent, life basically sucks.  I don't really know why it does, but it did for me and also for everyone else I have ever talked to.

The word transition really gives the wrong idea about what's going on.

[Sno]

I've tried to write my thoughts, this is my 5th rewrite, and it's grossly simplistic on purpose, because I am trying to express what I felt, and what feelings I have read in many other folks stories, and tried to reduce that to something more manageable.

We are aware.
Aware that our exterior doesn't match our internal experience.
Aware that our expression isn't consistent with our exterior.
Aware that our expression isn't consistent with societies expectations for our exterior.
Aware that there are rules around societies expectations.

Our internal experience, we are:
Aware that we do not align with fellow folk of similar exterior.
Aware that we do align with fellow folk of dissimilar exterior (in some cases), or
Aware that we align in part with fellow folk regardless of exterior, or
Aware that we do not align with folk, regardless of exterior, or
Aware that our alignment with folk of a given exterior may change day by day, or week by week.

In society we are:
Aware that the unaware will not see any need to question, or try to become aware, unless they have an awakening, or feel that they need to be able to relate to become an ally.
Aware that we can be perceived as dangerous or threatening by the unaware, simply because we challenge the status quo.
Aware that the inconsistency of our expression vs our exterior is confusing to the unaware, and we do have to try to explain.

Our awakening happens when, we have asked the unlikely questions of ourselves and our gender expression and found answers that are completely counter to our expectations.

Mine was the realisation that I was, in most part, performing my opposite gender role and I subconsciously sought out the company of the opposite gender for support, conversation and interaction. I became aware. I became aware that a significant proportion of time, I am Female in expression, words and deeds. I also became aware that the remainder I see the boundaries around both, neither one or the other. I also became aware that I have learned quite well (but not well enough), the rules of performing as expected according to my physical exterior.

That awakening poses the significant problem that we know we are outside the rules and every ounce of our core being wants us to be congruent and aligned. That fundamental mismatch is dysphoria. Our transformations come from a basic need to improve that alignment at any cost, driven by the stresses of our dysphoria - every minute, of every day is emotional work.

If I play in electric label-land, where we are trying to create an ontology of understanding and categories of identification, I may be a cross dressing Neutrois Demi-woman.

I am, however, me - amazing 'til the day I die, however badly I express it!



Sno