Is being TS psychological.

[Lisbeth]

what is up with Lisbeth???

it seems that ever since she changed her avatar to this new one with the black cat, she's also changed into some kind of genius or something. what does it mean? *kowtows to Lisbeth and accidentally knocks head on floor*

-ell

*Lisbeth rolls eyes and goes back to petting familiar in her lap.*

[HelenW]

The doctors started studying people who looked like one sex but insisted they were another.  They looked at these people's feet up to their heads and with their best instruments, running at full capacity, could not find anything different about their patient's bodies.  HA!  They said, we can't find anything, OBVIOUSLY it is psychological.

So they threw the people into insane asylums and used drugs, electricity and torture to get them to stop insisting what was very obviously not true.

All because they assumed that their methods and machines were perfect and if they could not find the problem then it was all in those poor afflicted people's heads.

And that's how we got stuffed into the psychological box.  Arrogance and the fact that they couldn't (still can't) decide where to place us. 

Emelye

[Jaycie]

That's a very narrow definition........IS conditions do not always reflect genitalia. I have the male genitalia but have female chromosones and bone density structure. There are many IS conditions other than hermaphrodites...

The article doesn't state that IS are hermaphrodites in fact it states that the term is no longer used.  Additionally the article does say:

...one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes.

The complete article can be found here and it is quite extensive:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Steph

Not to nitpick too much,  but that definition doesn't completely mesh with the one used in the 'community definitions' in the following post.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html

Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Maybe the wiki needs updating? 

[Steph]

That's a very narrow definition........IS conditions do not always reflect genitalia. I have the male genitalia but have female chromosones and bone density structure. There are many IS conditions other than hermaphrodites...

The article doesn't state that IS are hermaphrodites in fact it states that the term is no longer used.  Additionally the article does say:

...one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes.

The complete article can be found here and it is quite extensive:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Steph

Not to nitpick too much,  but that definition doesn't completely mesh with the one used in the 'community definitions' in the following post.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html

Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Maybe the wiki needs updating? 

Hmmmm...  could be.

I reviewed the article and the references it contains and it would seem pretty accurate.  However, there is always new information and research going on and if you have additional references that would add to the article I will gladly include them for you.  Remember they must be credible, based on fact.

Steph

[Lucy]

Ive only read the initial question here and appoligise if i am behind on this thred. We all have a di3erent oppinion im sure. There isA problem in being TG, the body of one gender

[Hazumu]

Hmn.  "Psychological" seems to imply the normal/not-normal determination.

Do you mean the "Normal Distribution" normal, or the "Normal Behaviour" normal?

I specially like this quote from the second article, above:

Quote: It is dangerous to be right on a subject on which the established authorities are wrong. - Voltaire. (It is dangerous not to be "normal" even if you are right).

because it nicely sums up what I see to be the problem with us TGs.

'Psychological' also suggests the idea that we can be somehow 'fixed' if we're just made to realize how wrong our choice to behave like something we're not is, the way a shrink can use talk therapy to help his or her patients make their behaviour more -- wait for it -- 'normal'. (sorry for the circular reasoning  )

My take on this topic:

I believe our being is natural, in the sense that it is a possible but rare outcome of  human gene propagation (sexual reproduction), the conditions experienced by the mother during pregnancy (extreme stress to the mother can cause low testosterone levels for the fetus,) and, more recently, the possibility of well-meaning chemical meddling in the pregnancy (i.e., DES.)  Human physiology carries with it the rare but possible outcome of individuals who have mismatches between brain gender and body sex.   And it's completely natural.  There's nothing wrong with it.

The problem is when we are encountered by other individuals who fall within the first standard deviation of behaviour (average), who also have a revultion of anything that falls outside of that first standard deviation.  It's a common funtion though, in that it helps us chose health fruit, healthy vegetables and healthy mates, and guides us to avoid that which may harm us.

We TGs are okay.  We are merely a rarity, cursed with something that causes a significant number 'normal' people to react badly to us and either try to 'correct' our behaviour to bring it within the first standard deviation (ala Tink being 'taught' how to be a 'boy' (something I also went through,)) or to try to 'prune' us from the population via ostracism/shunning/beatings/murder.

'Normal' people certainly do not have to endure such pressure. and so are likely to exhibit far fewer psychological abnormalities (behaviour that falls within the second standard deviation or greater.)

Maybe we're not 'normal'.

But we're certainly natural.

Karen

[Lucy]

I like that explanation but can u back up the first part with evidence. Its a strange place we live in. I was also torght to b a boy, i hated it. You almost seem to blame my parents pregnacy for my mix match of brain n body. Emmm. May be and may b not.

[Lisbeth]

what is up with Lisbeth???

it seems that ever since she changed her avatar to this new one with the black cat, she's also changed into some kind of genius or something. what does it mean? *kowtows to Lisbeth and accidentally knocks head on floor*

-ell

*Lisbeth rolls eyes and goes back to petting familiar in her lap.*

what? did i say something wrong?

Did I say you said something wrong?  You can get up off the floor now.

[Jeannette]

Congenital. Something that happened in the womb. It's a condition not a disorder. The only trouble is that I was disorderly part of my life as a result of not recognizing that I have this condition. It was something that stood between me and being "normal" (by society's definition).

[Dorothy]

Transsexualism (also known as transsexuality) is a complex condition that is defined differently by different people. Many terms have been proposed through the years to describe transsexual people and the processes they go through. As with any terms used by a group, or to refer to a particular group, some of these terms are controversial, or have become controversial, not only to society at large, but even among the transsexual community.

The definition of transsexuality is somewhat debated. One common definition is that a transsexual is a person who believes that his or her body does not reflect his or her true inner gender. Another common definition is that a transsexual is a person who has had or plans to have medical or surgical treatments that alter his or her body to better reflect what the individual believes is his or her true gender. The first definition allows greater freedom for individuals to self-identify as a transsexual. The latter defines the term based on actual or planned operative status and makes it more an external label than a term of self-definition.

When surgery is undertaken it is commonly referred to as sex reassignment surgery by health care providers and community members. An older term, sex change surgery may be seen as disrespectful.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders accepts the expression of desire to be of the opposite sex, or assertion that one is of the sex opposite from the one with which they were assigned at birth, as sufficient for being transsexual.[4] The ICD-10 states in a similar way that transsexualism is defined by, the desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his, or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment. In contrast, some transgender people often do not identify as being of, or desiring to be the opposite sex, but as being of or wanting to be another gender.

Transsexualism has been variously described as a trait, disease, behavior, desire, mental illness, perversion, paraphilia, political identity, lifestyle and sin. The terms perversion and sin are often used in a derogatory manner (especially by Western religions). People may consider the use of such labels offensive whether they are or are not transsexual, or involved with Western religions, themselves.

Transsexualism is often included within the broader term transgender, which is generally considered an umbrella term for people who do not conform to typical accepted gender roles, for example cross-dressers, drag queens, and people who identify as genderqueer. However, some transsexuals object to this inclusion. Historically the reason that transsexuals rejected associations with the transgender or broader LGBT community is largely that the medical community in the 1950s through the late 1980s encouraged (and in many ways required) this rejection of ones queer kin in order to be a (true transsexual) who would thus be allowed to access medical and surgical care. The animosity that is present today is no longer fed by this same kind of pressure from the medical community (indeed, today many gender therapists actively encourage their clients to explore support within the broader community. However the current animosity is reflective of this historical division.

Regardless of definition, transsexualism should not be confused with cross dressing or with the behaviour of drag queens and drag kings, which can be described as transgender but not transsexual. Also, transvestic fetishism usually has little, if anything, to do with transsexualism. As a general rule, transsexual people tend to dress and behave in a manner consistent with the gender they identify with, crossdressers tend to dress (and sometimes behave) in a manner consistent with stereotypical ideals of the opposite gender as opposed to the real-life behavior of that gender, and drag queens or drag kings tend to dress and behave in a flamboyant manner which parodies rather than emulates the opposite gender.

[TheBattler]

Yay - I am not TS  .

Regardless of definition, transsexualism should not be confused with cross dressing or with the behaviour of drag queens and drag kings, which can be described as transgender but not transsexual. Also, transvestic fetishism usually has little, if anything, to do with transsexualism.

As a general rule, transsexual people tend to dress and behave in a manner consistent with the gender they identify with, crossdressers tend to dress (and sometimes behave) in a manner consistent with stereotypical ideals of the opposite gender as opposed to the real-life behavior of that gender

You look at my early posts here (I will quote from them when I get home). I started out with a transvestic fetish. I can tell you know these are not mutualy excussive. Someone with Transvestic Fetish (or a simple CD) can very easier turn into a TS person when they relise they are more relaxed as a female.

So many people here started out knowing they where female. Being a very logical person I knew I was male. It was why I was so embarrised at my cross dressing - I was a guy and felt like a freck.

Now after many years of exploring (and many years of pain) I know it is not black and white - My brain is female and if that causes me to transistion so be it. I will never forget my past and hate my male self. It is just with my brain and the way it works - being female means I will be more relaxed with myself and be able to relate to people a whole lot better.

I now know a lot of CDs that are trying hormone. Alice Novic (author of "Alice in Genderland") is one of a host of poeple I know who initaly called themselves Cross dresses but have relised that they are infact closer to being female then male.

Alice

Alice

[Lisbeth]

what? did i say something wrong?

Did I say you said something wrong?  You can get up off the floor now.

well, you responded to a compliment with what seemed to be a scoff or criticism. i never give compliments unless they're well-deserved. and even then, not often. i was being sincere. take it however you wish.
scoff, scoff, scoff away.

I'm sorry I didn't recognize it as a compliment.

[Butterfly]

Genetic, a type of intersex condition that happens in the uterus while the fetus is developing within the mother.  The brain of one sex and the gonads of the opposite sex.
Thank you kindly Steph for making this thread exclusively for trans peeps.  We've got more than enough confusion; thus peeps that aren't trans shouldnt be able to participate because they dont understand us and only cause more complications.

[Kate]

I now know a lot of CDs that are trying hormone. Alice Novic (author of "Alice in Genderland") is one of a host of poeple I know who initaly called themselves Cross dresses but have relised that they are infact closer to being female then male.

Perhaps, but I also think CDrs occasionally mistake their compulsion to crossdress for a need to live as, or identify as, a female. If someone's crossdressing compulsion becomes so intense that it begins to interfere with everyday life, they may decide that transtitioning will allow them the freedom to crossdress permanently - thus alleviating their frustration and angst.

~Kate~

[TheBattler]

I now know a lot of CDs that are trying hormone. Alice Novic (author of "Alice in Genderland") is one of a host of poeple I know who initaly called themselves Cross dresses but have relised that they are infact closer to being female then male.

Perhaps, but I also think CDrs occasionally mistake their compulsion to crossdress for a need to live as, or identify as, a female. If someone's crossdressing compulsion becomes so intense that it begins to interfere with everyday life, they may decide that transtitioning will allow them the freedom to crossdress permanently - thus alleviating their frustration and angst.

~Kate~

It more then interdered with my life - it stuffed it up totaly.  .

I am just working on the ashes of my old life and hoping to build a new life. In any case it should never of interfered with what I enjoyed.

Alice

> today

[Pysgod]

What?  We just have different physical needs than your standard, fresh-off-the-assembly-line human.  We're a little more high maintenance.  We need something extra in order to survive.  I really don't see what the big issue is, here.  We're not normal, physically, and that results in psychological issues that can be remedied by correcting the physical ailment.  Am I ringing any bells here?  How is it any different from some other physical disfigurement?  Depending on how socially debilitating it is (ours is arguably one of the worst in that regard), you suffer pretty severe mental repurcussions until you get things ironed out.

But hey, at least we don't have to drink blood (although that would be pretty sexy.)

~ BB

Just please don't drink mine.......I really need it and all that. Besides my gf might be a bit upset.

[katia]

Genetic, a type of intersex condition that happens in the uterus while the fetus is developing within the mother.  The brain of one sex and the gonads of the opposite sex.
Thank you kindly Steph for making this thread exclusively for trans peeps.  We've got more than enough confusion; thus peeps that aren't trans shouldnt be able to participate because they dont understand us and only cause more complications.

here here.  ditto.