When and how to tell potential boyfriend when dating

[Karen_A]

All I am saying that for some people, it right, proper, and good to tell a husband or wife or life partner about one's early days and past as a different gender. However, for some of us it is not and the closed-narrative option should not be dismissed without discussion as to its benefits; at least that's what I think.

I have heard cases where, when it came out even years later, it destroyed the relationship (as well as cases where it did not end or significantly change the relationship).

Unfortunately, in this electronic age where records are forever and more and more searchable, for those transitioning now in adulthood after having worked or gone to college, there will always be the possibility that it may come out accidentally, even many years later.

Although I am 18 years post-op , this is not something I have to deal with as I stayed married from before...

But I know if my marriage fell apart now so that I found myself alone in my 60's or beyond it would be devastating, much more so than when I was younger (thought it would always have been very hard).

[Virginia Hall]

I have heard cases where, when it came out even years later, it destroyed the relationship (as well as cases where it did not end or significantly change the relationship).

Unfortunately, in this electronic age where records are forever and more and more searchable, for those transitioning now in adulthood after having worked or gone to college, there will always be the possibility that it may come out accidentally, even many years later.

Although I am 18 years post-op , this is not something I have to deal with as I stayed married from before...

But I know if my marriage fell apart now so that I found myself alone in my 60's or beyond it would be devastating, much more so than when I was younger (thought it would always have been very hard).

Thank you for acknowledging my point Karen_A,

I do not disagree with your reasoning. You make very good points. I was lucky to transition when I did and when electronic records were in their infancy. Plus, in the 1970s people who transitioned usually lost everyone. I sure did. And you are right, it would be tough to lose someone late in life, so why push it in his face?

I came out of the closet by transitioning. Telling him would be going back into the closet by giving life to a false narrative. I would be telling a "lie." Does that suddenly sound backwards? "Isn't it the truth you were a guy!?" No. That was the lie. The lie was what I lived. The lie is the closet. Dumping the false images is the truth. He only knows me as Virginia. Heck. I only know me as Virginia for these 40 years. Why poison that?

I am not saying that someone is wrong in telling their husband, wife, or life partner about their past. That is a personal decision. All I am trying to say is that there may be circumstances and reasons someone might not chose to and we are not sinners for keeping it to ourselves.

[Karen_A]

. And you are right, it would be tough to lose someone late in life, so why push it in his face?

My point was that in the modern world the chance of it coming out unexpectedly is much higher than it was in the past. and that will likely be the case for people making the change now and likely forever more.

A spouse being told after many years  would be difficult of course because of feelings of betrayal, but a spouse finding out from a 3rd party or electronic search by accident IMO is a lot less likely to accept if they find out from any outside source...

Particularly if it comes out later in life, it can destroy  or at least severely damage 2 lives... That is why these days, as hard as it may be, I think it would be advisable to disclose BEFORE marriage...

For those in your situation, at this point what is best is unknowable.

Obviously  it is on weighing your mind  or you would not be posting about it. If you can forget about it, and *IF* it never comes out then all will be well.

But if knowing it can happen affects you emotionally or if you feel guilty about it, that will wear on you and affect both you and the relationship negatively... but I think you know that.

So a lot depends on you, as well as chance. Sometimes there is no good solution and you just have to decide why is the path of least damage for you both and live with it.

It is totally unfair that we as a group have to deal with this type of reality, but unless/until society truly accepts us as women, it is what it is.

[Virginia Hall]

Particularly if it comes out later in life, it can destroy  or at least severely damage 2 lives... That is why these days, as hard as it may be, I think it would be advisable to disclose BEFORE marriage...

Obviously  it is on weighing your mind  or you would not be posting about it. If you can forget about it, and *IF* it never comes out then all will be well.

But if knowing it can happen affects you emotionally or if you feel guilty about it, that will wear on you and affect both you and the relationship negatively... but I think you know that.

Hello Karen_A,

Thank you again for engaging in this conversation Yes, I have felt guilty. I have been guilt-tripped and been told in no uncertain terms that I am no good for having a closed narrative. This position is argued to the point just short of dogma.

Earlier I tried to share that I had tried each path, so its not completely theoretical. I did go the disclosure route and I shared why sharing that lie of a false self was corrosive and how I had come out of the closet only to be pushed back into one. The relationship ended, but not over gender issues.

Speaking only for myself I came to prefer being in a relationship that was a closed narrative. If he suspected anything, he never brought it up or hinted at it. I said I felt much better about this relationship than the one with the open narrative. It is a realistic option and one I chose. The relationship ended, but it was not over gender issues.

If there is no voice here saying that closed narratives can work (and I agree with you that they don't always work) then there is no balancing view. Way back when, others convinced me that it was mandatory--even righteous--to have an open narrative.

You suggested a closed narrative might wear on a person. Actually what "wore" on me was the open narrative, not the closed one. What wore on me was that the false pre-transition image of me had any ultimate validity.

You have valid points about telling a husband, wife, or life partner about the past if they are going to find out one way or the other. Sure. Better he hear it from you.

But what if that is not likely? What if God came to you and said, "your partner will never learn of the ancient past unless you tell him?" What then?

[chocolate97]

Thank you so much for your advice and helpful insights everyone! And Joanna thanks for the welcome! I do feel so welcome here after all the replies and caring persons here❤

The success stories from those who came out and told their boyfriends/husbands tell me that there are boys that will accept. And indeed, if he cannot accept he is simply not the right one.

At the moment i am still waiting for the right moment. This is still the difficult part, but now I do know how to tell and I have never doubted that I should tell him, but the timing seems to be a struggle. This weekend we dated again and things went physical again, but I was a little more reserved about it and did not take it too far. I know he wants penetrative sex because he asked about it couple of times but he also knows I am virgin so seems to understand why i am holding back(although the real reason is that I want to tell him about being a transgirl before going all the way..). I will probably tell him during our next dinner date, since dinner feels like a good time to tell.

I will keep you all posted😘

[Karen_A]

But what if that is not likely? What if God came to you and said, "your partner will never learn of the ancient past unless you tell him?" What then?

Realistically there are no guarantees in life...

So it depends on his much guilt you feel and can live with and how much that guilt, as well as any worrying about if it might come out some day, and how much your having to be be guarded and and not being able to share yourself fully with your life partner, affects the relationship.

For some that will be a lot. For some it will be only a little.  For some it will be none (though I personally don't understand how it can be none at all)

Again although the odds may be small in your situation they are not zero

Once in that situation you have to decide what you think is best for BOTH of you and the relationship... and keeping that secret means you take that burden completely on yourself.  If what you decide is right or wrong, is up to you. In an ideal world it would not matter, but obviously you know in this world it does.

As i said it's not fair that we should have to deal with such things ... but things are as they are and given that, I don't think anyone has the right to condemn anyone for the decision they make.  Life is too complicated for absolutes.

I fully understand the desire to just be seen as a woman without an asterisk by all, including the person closed to you... I think that is what most of have always wanted dearly,  and so it's lot easier not to tell if no one can tell...

But I will say is for the reasons I mention above, I think it's a situation that is best avoided. Even without disclosure it MAY have a long tern caustic effect on the relationship, and if it comes out years later, it MAY blow blow up 2 lives.  As hard as it might be, it seems it would be best to find someone who can see you as you, even if they know.

BTW your writing style seems very familiar. Have we discussed these types of issues in other fora years ago?

[Virginia Hall]

. . . it depends on his much guilt you feel and can live with and how much that guilt, as well as any worrying about if it might come out some day, and how much your having to be be guarded and and not being able to share yourself fully with your life partner, affects the relationship.

Again although the odds may be small in your situation they are not zero . . .

If God says "no chance," I'll take it. The point was to take out the fear factor. The two remaining thins are guilt and intimacy. Guilt comes from doing something wrong--possibly because a certain kind of intimacy is not achieved. But there is a tradeoff because a different intimacy is lost.

[Jacqueline]

Chocolate,

Congratulations on finding such a special person. I wish you luck as you proceed forward.

It seems like this topic has shifted to a debate of whether to tell or not. Your original post was when and how. It seems that debating whether to is a topic all it's own. Is there interest in me splitting that off as a topic to be further discussed while we can continue with Chocolate's progress and question here?

Sincerely,

Joanna

[Rhonda Lynn]

Thank you so much for your advice and helpful insights everyone! And Joanna thanks for the welcome! I do feel so welcome here after all the replies and caring persons here❤

The success stories from those who came out and told their boyfriends/husbands tell me that there are boys that will accept. And indeed, if he cannot accept he is simply not the right one.

At the moment i am still waiting for the right moment. This is still the difficult part, but now I do know how to tell and I have never doubted that I should tell him, but the timing seems to be a struggle. This weekend we dated again and things went physical again, but I was a little more reserved about it and did not take it too far. I know he wants penetrative sex because he asked about it couple of times but he also knows I am virgin so seems to understand why i am holding back(although the real reason is that I want to tell him about being a transgirl before going all the way..). I will probably tell him during our next dinner date, since dinner feels like a good time to tell.

I will keep you all posted😘

Chocolate, you seem to have a pretty handle on the situation and on knowing when the time is right. At the very least, it is likely that he will appreciate your honesty. I have found that most people do.

Good luck to you, hun! Please let us know how it goes.

[Miss Lux]

Don't judge me but I never tell the guys I date/dated and some never knew for years until now or  perhaps they just don't want to deal with it.... I did tell a few guys that I dated before - the ones Im really not in to....the  2 usual reaction that I experienced are the ff:  they are so in love then in a snap of a finger goodbye as if you never existed and or they don't disappear but things change, romance and affection gone just turns into a sexual thing.... I screen/choose the guys I date carefully and I don't date guys who I can assess could be violent. i agree that no matter how passable or gorgeous you are some people can sense a little bit or it would cross their mind but generally I pass 99% of the time... It's just harder to pass with Asian guys- i dont care for them anyway lol.. Asian people have an excellent trans radar lol. i've dated a few doctors/ surgeon and they never even questioned my anatomy... I was just asked once or twice if I had kids due to my cs like scar on my lower abdomen/pubic area....... I honestly think some guys knew but just din't care but din't want to deal/talk about it and doesn't care about your past, some has clues or discovers later on but don't want to deal with it so they just disappear or finds an excuse for a break up other than that.......some guys I knew pre-op that I never had to explain they just started wooing or developing feelings naturally.... I dunno but I am firm on never admitting/ revealing my past and I have a plethora of excuses if the need for explaining arise..... You don't owe anyone an explanation!

[chocolate97]

Thank you Joanna and Rhonda. Your comments are reassuring. I will tell you how things progress as it happens.

@Miss Lux; I can't say that I agree, because I feel it is important to disclose this when things start to get serious. Not disclosing will definitely not work for me as I would not be able to live with that.. but I think everyone is different and needs to decide what feels best.

[pretty pauline]

Chocolate, you seem to have a pretty handle on the situation and on knowing when the time is right. At the very least, it is likely that he will appreciate your honesty. I have found that most people do.

Good luck to you, hun! Please let us know how it goes.

Absolutely agree, just getting the timing right, I remember I was sick with worry, very tense nervous anxious as we had been sleeping together for months, I told him on a dinner date, he was a bit shocked, but recovered and did appreciate my honesty before he put that diamond engagement ring on my finger, I was so relieved, he was so supportive, it's a great relief, no more secrets, we got married 6 months later, over the years he has always reassured me that I always was and always will be a woman, and a special girl.
Best of luck, hope it goes well.

[Sophia Sage]

Just to tag onto what Virginia says (hi!), yes, there's a different kind of intimacy in a relationship that isn't predicated on disclosure.  "Coming out" when you're already where you want to be is kind of asking someone to start treating you differently than they already are.  If you're being gendered correctly, well, isn't that what this is all about?

Of course, it's possible that the information will come around from other quarters.  So let me tell the story of my friend "Raquel Welch," for that's pretty much how she came across.  Raquel was dating this fella Jack, and kept a closed narrative.  About six months down the line, they're in love.  Then, he finds some information related to property records (he was in real estate, and naturally curious) and so he asked her what was up.

Now, this is a very different situation than volunteering a narrative.  Raquel didn't ask for this, Jack did.  So she tells the story, and explains that as far as she's concerned, she's past all that, she's female now, and that's the end of the story.  If Jack wants to continue the relationship with her, he'll have to accept that narrative, or it's not gonna fly.  Oh, and after one week, the subject is never to be brought up again.

He married her a couple years later, and they lived happily ever after.

Happily, because she knew exactly what she wanted, and lived her life that way. 

[herekitten]

I am responding to your query a little late, but I am hoping your dinner date went well. Your question brought back memories of how I used to feel when having to cross that bridge of telling. I've been in that situation a few times, but not that many, because I am very picky about who gets to 'know' about me. Almost always, I have chosen to do it over dinner -- so I am hoping all went your way with your talk. I remember almost breaking up and walking away from someone who meant the world to me because I did not want feel the pain of a broken heart or worst yet -- feel the pain of his broken heart. He pleaded with me to let him know what was bothering me and finally I just broke and told him. We were married 16 years after a two year engagement. He gave me the world. Marriage broke apart and I fault myself and my insecurities. But all is well now. Had it not been for my ex-   my road would never have led to my husband -- we knew instantly we were meant for each other. I guess I am trying to tell you that if you truly have deep feelings for this individual and he in return, you have reached the point of no return. You should tell him and love each other unabashedly.

[Vervain]

Unfortunately, in this electronic age where records are forever and more and more searchable, for those transitioning now in adulthood after having worked or gone to college, there will always be the possibility that it may come out accidentally, even many years later.

This is actually how my ex-fiance, who is a now post-op trans man, got outted. His father wrote about his "schizophrenic daughter" that "took his name", in his autobiography, that was published online on the website of the university he worked at. My parents had been doing a lot of googling into my ex, because I moved out pretty immediately (due to abuse on the part of my father) in with my fiance. That wasn't the initial plan, but it was that or I was going to end up in the psych ward Mom worked at.

It... did not go over well, with my father. Mom accepted and asked lots of questions, some that were wince-worthy, but she at least wanted to understand. Dad had raised me as male and in his mind, couldn't deal with a gay son (or a queer daughter, for that matter, either).

My ex is mostly stealth these days except for talking about his experience online to help other trans folk, esp other trans men, because he didn't complete transition until his 60s due to money and other reasons. He was in his late 40s when I was involved with him, and his father outing him in his auto-biography still resulted in my fiance being outed. It caused him a lot of stress and worry because if my parents could find that, who else could?

For the trans* folk of my age and younger (I'm on the older end of Millennial), what's written online is going to be even more of a factor, because so much social media now is "real name" and even those that aren't, it can be easy to figure out who someone is IRL. If someone happens to stumble over an old Tumblr profile with lots of transition photos, well, cat's out of the bag. I have my photo here but my username isn't connected with my standard ones, so it'd be harder to find. Not impossible, because someone could google image my avatar, but that's not so common.

Anyway, sorry for the side-rail there, but I wanted to address that because my ex figured that since his parents aren't really tech folk, that nobody would find anything from them. He didn't expect his father to write an autobiography posted online, or that his father would talk about him, at all.

[chinee]

In my case, I had a lot of experiences before that the guy Im seriously dating goes away after telling him about my deep dark secret. I am a 24 year old woman and quite passable. So I figured out not telling it completely unless we are like getting married or at least not tell it at the beginning of our dating stage.

I am seeing a guy for 2 months now and we are in serious relationship. He is very proud of me and even brag me to his friends. After the 1st month of our relationship, I have decided to tell him the truth about my past. This caused us to break up and explained to me that it is because of cultural differences and he's planning to have a family and have kids of his own. He also told me that his parents and friends cannot accept me for who I am. Those words broke me into pieces and even let me think of why I wasn't just born genetically female. I did everything I could to save our relationship and even told him that its only him who should know about it because I want to be honest with him.

To cut the story short, we broke up for 2 weeks and with the help of my prayers and letting him feel how much I really love him, we got back to each other. Slowly he learned to love me as me and not because of my past history and decided to just put it in the past. But if you will ask me if I would do the same thing if I can turn back the time, my answer would be no. I'd rather tell it when its getting to the point that we are getting married. Because outing yourself right away cannot just turn him back away, it can also lead to him outing you to anyone. Now we are together and happy but I am still scared of the future that awaits us. I want him to be happy so I will do everything I could for us to live a normal life.

[chocolate97]

@Chinee;

Well good to hear that it seemed to go well after all and it was certainly very brave of you to tell him after 2 months of dating. I am happy that he still loves you and that you got back together!

As for me, I have been dating the guy for quite some time, but yesterday we had a very nice dinner date but because I was still unsure about his feelings for me (he gave me very mixed signals which drove me crazy in my mind) I first asked him where we were going before revealing anything. It turned out he was just interested in friends with benefits and looking for serious commitment. And so I decided to not tell him anything about my past because we had not future together after all. I am disappointed and puzzled. Why would a guy wait for 3 months if he is just looking for sex while I was not giving him what he was looking for? Anyway, I think I will go for some wines with friends and get over it. And hopefully I will meet someone nice, one day (and will only tell when things start to get serious, like going steady)

[chinee]

@chocolate97;

Sometimes guys can be ass****s and I think most of them just want to get in your pants not unless you'll play hard to get then thats when they will start to get serious with you (They would do everything to get into your pants no matter what if they really like you lol). I'm confused between "he was just looking for friends" and "looking for serious commitment". He might be just shy to admit it that technically you have been exclusively dating for 3 months.

Because in my experience, if a guy is only after sex, he wouldn't go far beyond a week of trying not unless he feel something special for you. Guys will be guys and if they just want a sex partner, there are many easy to get fishes in the ocean. But I still hope you'll find someone serious soon

[2cherry]

It is difficult... and also the reason I don't date anymore. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either way, they will see ghosts that aren't there. Ignorance leaves me bitter. Honesty will be punished.

I am approaching the age of 40, so there isn't much dating anyway. (woman over 40 are invisible to men) I don't even care about dating anymore. It seems like one huge hamsterwheel, never getting the thing I want.

Could be the post-op depression talking right now, so maybe it's best to ignore my advice for now.

[chocolate97]

@chocolate97;

Sometimes guys can be ass****s and I think most of them just want to get in your pants not unless you'll play hard to get then thats when they will start to get serious with you (They would do everything to get into your pants no matter what if they really like you lol). I'm confused between "he was just looking for friends" and "looking for serious commitment". He might be just shy to admit it that technically you have been exclusively dating for 3 months.

Because in my experience, if a guy is only after sex, he wouldn't go far beyond a week of trying not unless he feel something special for you. Guys will be guys and if they just want a sex partner, there are many easy to get fishes in the ocean. But I still hope you'll find someone serious soon

Typo! I meant to say that he was NOT looking for something serious just fwb...