Where do you begin?

[tanyaclark]

Maybe that seems like a simple question...

I'll start with my story.
I'll say that since I've been in about 7th grade I've thought about changing to female and so it's about 25 years...
I've always just dealt with it on my own.  Piling male stuff on top not really as a cover but just because it's what I did.

There's been moments over the years where I think I should do something about this or I need/want too.
The feelings would become strong but would pass and I'd be back to sports and guy stuff. 
But during those times I'd imagine, dream about it, read about it, lightly dress or buy a wig or makeup to just try stuff.
I guess overall since the teenage years I just assumed at some point I would make the change over and be a female.
I fact in truth I've wanted too and was to chicken to get out of my own way, to busy and really didn't know a whole lot about being female other than I really wanted too.
Now the feeling is that I'm to old and stuck to do so... wife kids job etc.

I've often felt in groups that I was one stuck in the middle or nearer to the women. 
A man but not really the macho guy chauvinistic alpha type. 
I've always have felt way down on the peck order in male groups.
I could talk with the other women much more easily.
But it wasn't like they were going to invite me to girl's night or out lunch to just chat.
I've often been the loner type even when around many people or teams.
I've often felt like I could make the change and no one would even notice.

Anyway over the last year or so those feelings of wanting to change seem to be stronger and last longer.
Then can carry on for weeks as opposed to hours or day that it used to be.
Not sure if this will continue in this direction or whatnot.
These feelings can also go way past the female looks part and dive into more emotional things.
Like how does it feel to kiss, be touched, dance with or just be with a man.
And also things like would I be able to enjoy girl talk or be able to blend in and adapt. 
Would I be good at and enjoy it? 
I think of that on the middle aged soccer mom cougar type level.
Like could I goto the park and just feel like any other mom there.
Or could I goto a bar/restaurant and just be like any other middle aged woman there.

So I guess maybe the answer is clear but do you just start with a therapist to get it all out and then see where it goes.
Is that basically how many of you began?

Could use help on if others have felt this way through life and what you did?

Thanks listening and for the help in advance 

[Dena]

Welcome to Susan's Place. The magic word is a gender therapist. As you haven't given a location, you may be able to obtain the name of one through your normal medical care. If you  have insurance, you policy may have an approved one available. Next possibility would a local LGBT center and you can normally find one by googling "town name LGBT". You could also google "town name gender therapist". In addition, the Links section has a number of people that others on the site have used.

The therapist will be your key to the medical system. When you are ready, you will be able to obtain HRT and surgery through your therapist.

The remainder of it you might get if you have a therapy group. You can also use the site as such to learn about beard removal, makeup, hair, clothing selection, voice and most anything else you might need.

The people here are more than willing to help and you only need to ask and shortly you will receive an answer. If there is anything I can help you with, let me know.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read

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[alex82]

Maybe that seems like a simple question...

I'll start with my story.
I'll say that since I've been in about 7th grade I've thought about changing to female and so it's about 25 years...
I've always just dealt with it on my own.  Piling male stuff on top not really as a cover but just because it's what I did.

There's been moments over the years where I think I should do something about this or I need/want too.
The feelings would become strong but would pass and I'd be back to sports and guy stuff. 
But during those times I'd imagine, dream about it, read about it, lightly dress or buy a wig or makeup to just try stuff.
I guess overall since the teenage years I just assumed at some point I would make the change over and be a female.
I fact in truth I've wanted too and was to chicken to get out of my own way, to busy and really didn't know a whole lot about being female other than I really wanted too.
Now the feeling is that I'm to old and stuck to do so... wife kids job etc.

I've often felt in groups that I was one stuck in the middle or nearer to the women. 
A man but not really the macho guy chauvinistic alpha type. 
I've always have felt way down on the peck order in male groups.
I could talk with the other women much more easily.
But it wasn't like they were going to invite me to girl's night or out lunch to just chat.
I've often been the loner type even when around many people or teams.
I've often felt like I could make the change and no one would even notice.

Anyway over the last year or so those feelings of wanting to change seem to be stronger and last longer.
Then can carry on for weeks as opposed to hours or day that it used to be.
Not sure if this will continue in this direction or whatnot.
These feelings can also go way past the female looks part and dive into more emotional things.
Like how does it feel to kiss, be touched, dance with or just be with a man.
And also things like would I be able to enjoy girl talk or be able to blend in and adapt. 
Would I be good at and enjoy it? 
I think of that on the middle aged soccer mom cougar type level.
Like could I goto the park and just feel like any other mom there.
Or could I goto a bar/restaurant and just be like any other middle aged woman there.

So I guess maybe the answer is clear but do you just start with a therapist to get it all out and then see where it goes.
Is that basically how many of you began?

Could use help on if others have felt this way through life and what you did?

Thanks listening and for the help in advance

This is very moving and beautifully written.

Can I ask a stupid question? Why didn't you feel like you could not get on your female friends level, or be invited out to lunch with them?

I've seen people say this before, and I don't get it. I've never found women to be that exclusionary (maybe slightly, in terms of "don't like her at all, because...". But no more than that. Men yes, and if you're not 'one of the guys' then absolutely. But women, or girls when you're a teenager, no. That's a take as you find.

If anything, I have the opposite dilemma - male friends, who are friends, will happily be friends with you, but they won't necessarily invite you to the pub with other male friends of theirs. Even very alpha types, they'll be friends, drop by your flat, have a laugh, even flirt, and have the (very infrequent) charged moment/more. But the lunch invites don't come, and neither do the after work drinks - that is pretty much limited to females and gay men, which is fine by me, the conversation is invariably better and more expansive. The odd straight one now and again will invite, clearly feeling somewhat deviant.

Women/girls on the other hand, totally different, complete acceptance, trans or not - lunch, after work drinks, I'll cover for you if you're late, here's my notes for what you've missed, what do you think this guy really means (I don't know!), my period is killing me btw - I had to get this pad out - so can order for me meantime, whatever.

I had a hair appointment yesterday and I got onto the subject of waxing with the stylist. We had a laugh that the bits people who don't wax think are agony, really aren't. There was a harmony there and a shared experience which was really lovely, and it's only really since using this site and seeing that others don't, that I've thought, actually that's normal to me, and it was before. I'd been taking it for granted, and not realizing others felt locked out.

So where's the block for you? Why aren't you being invited out to lunch and treated as just a regular member of the group? Were you at school? Or you weren't, and so it's just a pattern that's carried on through into adulthood?

As I say, it's the opposite, and I don't know why. I'd love more male friends to just hang out with, no agenda. I say just find some women you get on with, and say, hey, let's get lunch together today. Once you've done that, which is basic, yes of course you could arrange other stuff with likeminded women to see more of. Just be honest, listen, share, build friendships.

[tgirlamg]

Hi Tanya and welcome aboard!!!... Most of us share many common threads and pretty much everything you have written is stuff many of us can relate to directly as part of our own journeys... These are things that need to be examined so you can figure out what it all means in terms of how you want to deal with it... This stuff doesn't go away... A WPATH therapist is an excellent place to start and their website has lists of providers by area...

You might want to read this too....

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

I believe you will see yourself in group 3.... Welcome to the club!!!!

I wish you all the best on the road ahead!!!... You have a lot of sisters here walking the same road and you will find that it is a road best traveled with friends at your side!!!

Take Care,

Ashley

[tanyaclark]

Ashley thanks for the article.  Yes I fit in group 3 I believe.
Btw you look beautiful and your before and after certainly gives me hope.
Also did you change your eye color?
Because that's something I can see myself doing in an I totally look different now from the old male me look.
Different body look, hair color, eye color just a total change.  I believe I would dress a lot less sloppy too.

As far as women and groups. (I had to re-write this so some points might be missing)
Yes I agree they're welcoming but it wasn't as if I was overly effeminate or clearly wanting to be female.

I also believe if I fully made it into the group I'd be a woman right now.
And would have been one for 10+ years now and I'm not kidding
Because if I hung out with them away from the other men long enough it would've come out over dinner or night out or they would've flat out asked and I would've spilled away.
That and they would have helped me immensely.  Because as stated before they would've helped me over the female learning curve.  Like I knew I wanted to be female but there was a hill to get there. Like when I saw nice hair or great makeup or a saw a perfect legs and skirt combo or how to just be; like I didn't know all that and it seemed overwhelming to figure it all out.  As a loner I barely knew women from a guys perspective let alone a woman's.
They would have provide the skills, protection and push me out to the world-ness that I needed.
This has probably change since you can google or youtube anything now but 10+ years ago that wasn't a reality.

Describing how it was because maybe someone else had it or has it like this.
Play sports with the guys softball, soccer, football, whatever...
We'd most time hit the bar afterward.
Looking back I feel like I had 3 choices most times.
1) Enter into the guy dirt talk... You know the I want her, she's hot or has a nice whatever basically the male porn dirt talk.  It's normal for guys I believe or most of them anyway and especially out together.  For me maybe because I had high level of female in me that made me cringe or feel just utterly creepy. I never wanted to partake in that and would only if pressed so as to not stick out.
Also this category would be the more alpha male talk whether pertaining to woman or work or whatever they felt like talking about.  I was just a wallflower in those times or maybe more so the one who calm the maleness.  Things like not really drinking to make sure my male friends got home or didn't fight or destroy stuff.

2) Be more the loner type at the bar sit and watch the ball game.  Maybe chat with others about that.
Basically stay to myself and not engage with anyone much.

3) Talk to the woman.  Girlfriends of the other guys and their friends.
Really about whatever work, life, clothes and stuff like that here and there.  Every once in a while they'd talk guys but I think they reserved that more for their away from the men times.  So I learned to talk with them it was rather easy for me to fit in.  But they always viewed me as another guy and clearly not someone on the path to womanhood or anything like that. That led to hey my friend so and so is available we should hook you up your such a nice guy.
Then that never really works out because you don't really want to date their girl friend you want to be their "girl" friend.
I'll put it this way I would be privy to things like hair extensions and got my nails done or really want to hook up with x.  But I wasn't injecting those into the conversation per say.  I remember one time tell one of them I like how your skirt and heels and hose match.  I kind of got the why did you say it like that look.  To be honest I think that girl knew because we hung out often in the larger group and I probably knew to much about items like extensions and nails and heels.  But looking back there was no way to tell her in a private quiet away space from everyone it wasn't gonna be got a minute hey I really want to be a woman like you could you help me. Kind of wish I did because she was the type who would've took it and run as stated above but that's with hindsight and in the moment I was probably what if she outs me to her boyfriend and he tells everyone.
But yes I wasn't gonna get the call from her or anyone else to come hangs with us girls we're going out clubbing or to eat.  It would have to be been very strange to do that and from my side would've sent of the he's very different balloons to my entire male group.
Just how it felt for me... wish I did and handled it differently with more life experience now on my side but it is what it is.

[tgirlamg]

Hi Tanya!!!

Yes on the eye color change!... I had always wanted to have blue eyes and went for the blue contacts!..., I wear them most of the time but sometimes revert to my natural brown as well... There is a procedure to laser brown eyes blue but for now I am happy with my contacts!

So much of your first post sounds like where I was at different points in my life.... For the most part I had a very male existence and had very male jobs and activities" (hazmat, bomb technician, construction foreman, industrial pipefitter, ... Surfer, snowboarder, guns, motorcycles blah blah blah....) I always knew something didn't add up though in how I fit into the world though from a very young age.... I knew at my core I would want to be female but I never saw it as something I could do anything about until a few years ago....I did have points in life where I had best friends who were women and I knew I had a strong urge to cross dress from a young age....anyways, ... The therapy stuff for me was more of a formality ... My mind was made up when this stuff bubbled up on me big time and I finally realized I could live the way I chose..but it is still a great place to start and sort this out....

I think you have many revelations coming... Revelations about your past ... How much the gender dysphoria colored your life and decisions in ways you never realized... revelations about your place in the world and your road ahead.... Self exploration is often the last frontier!!!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley

[tanyaclark]

Haha yeah I like the blue eyes on you looks good with the dirty blonde.  Of course I want the exact opposite haha
Currently I have the blue/dirty blonde as male and would want the dark brown eyes with the dark brown deep red black hair look.  Albeit I would just like to blend in and become middle aged woman that kind of goes unnoticed most of the time.

Agreed yup I have the military, coaching sports, playing very physical sports side, type deal.
I'm interested to see what I chosen in life that protect the dysphoria.
Not sure I've ever thought about it like that. So we'll see what's to come.
I think at this point the regret of not ever giving it a go is building up.

I was basically stalked by my wife right before I threw in the towel to manhood.
If she doesn't hunt me down I probably choose the if you can't beat em' join em' lol.
I was knocking on that door a decade ago with the loner and this male stuff doesn't seem to be working feelings.
She is pretty open and a good deal younger than me and I helped her out of dark periods of her life.
But I'm not fully sure how she'd take the whole thing.
My guess is she'd be helpful and supportive for awhile but then once I was stable move on to other men who fill that void.
I also kind of see that from the other side too.
Like I need support early on and not a family blownup but eventually I think if you change you want to test womanhood for all it's worth.

Ashley sorry to bug you or pry but it seems easy to talk with you.
But did you have wife kids etc before starting the journey?
Have you been able to break free and fully enjoy being female?
How long did the road from start to just being female and nothing overly thinking about it (not that's not always improving) take?
What was the hardest part?

Thanks for the help

[Devlyn]

Tanya, welcome to the site! We have a very busy thread for the veterans here, Roll Call! I hope to see you there.

Hugs, Devlyn

[tgirlamg]

Hi Tanya!!!

Let me see if I can answer your questions without writing a novel here although I am happy to answer in excruciating detail on any subject if it is helpful later!!!

I had no children... I did have a girlfriend of several yeas at the time all this stuff came back and demanded my full attention... She left on good terms when I told her what was going on and I had a small but very accepting family ...

My decision to move forward with transition was almost on the spot... I just knew it was the right path for me and I set out to make it happen in short order... My decision was in later 2013.... I began 2014 on hormones and immediately began living fulltime outside of work ( as a UXO bomb tech) en femme... That only served to make it clear to me that I was on the right path... It is one thing to go out to a club etc but where the real test lies is the store, the post office, the bank, veterinarians office, jiffy lube and everywhere else life takes us daily...I also legally changed name/gender in Sept of 2014

In 2015, I had 27 hours of surgery in three procedures... 4 hours GRS and two 11.5 hour facial surgeries... It was a workout!!!

This year has been a chance to finally settle in a bit to all the changes brought by that whirlwind of change ... I am this year starting to have that ... "I'm just a normal woman" feeling start to peek through ...and it feels great!!! I decided early on that I would not let being Trans make me shy away from anything in life... I joined womens Meetup groups and have made lots of wonderful cis female friends.. I am just another girl in the group.... After a lifetime of relationships with women, I started dating a man and we were married last month! 

The hardest part is probably wrestling with the demons with  the little voices in your brain that get very self critical and pop up sometimes... They tell you that you're not pretty enough, ...passable enough... Your voice isn't feminine enough... Learning to put these voices in their place will take you far!!! ... Cis women have lots of issues with how they are perceived and transwomen deal with them as well, perhaps more so... Comes with the territory I guess... Hormones are an amazing ride ... You feel everything much more than before... It has been an amazing thing ...the highs are higher but there are low days along the way too like no others... The other hard part is total acceptance of yourself as a transwoman... All the surgery, hormones, voice lessons etc in the world will not make you a genetic female or are any guarantee that you will be perceived as one... If you accept yourself though as a transwoman... You never need to worry about passing as anything else!!! Just be you!!!... When you reach that spot, ...life gets really good!!! ...I have yet to have a bad experience with anyone, acquaintance or stranger, because of being Trans...Anyways... Here I am a few years later... Would I go back? ... Never!!!! ... I have seen life outside the walls of the prison I was born into ... It is an amazing and beautiful world out here!!!...I am at peace ...I am happy!!!... I am FINALLY me!!!!

Onward we go

Ashley

[Steph Eigen]

Tanya,

I think many of your thoughts, fears, wants and needs are not dissimilar to those of many of us on this forum.  Let me tell you a few experiences and observations I've made about myself, my marriage and my prsonal history that might be of interest to you.

I met my wife when we were both in graduate school.  I had not dated much over the prior year since having a couple brief, failed relationships.  It was at  a holiday party where she approached me asking to dance.  I actually declined the offer, reason being that I have 2 left feet, am clumsy on the dance floor despite several rounds of classes and frankly just don't enjoy it (a poor excuse for a  woman I am!).  She was crushed taking it as a rejection of her, not simply me politely declining the offer in hope of avoiding personal embarrassment and injury to  her feet.

When we finally had the opportunity to meet in a quieter setting, the local student pub, and after her graceful but nearly conspicuous efforts to make herself open and available to me, I fell for her.  Interesting points were the following:

-She pursued me.

-She made the observation that I was surrounded by a bunch of salivating 20-something year old women at these large parties, something I was entirely oblivious to. She claimed they were all "throwing themselves" at me.  I didn't have a clue.

-When I recently asked her (now after >30 years marriage) what she saw in me, why she felt so motivated to pursue me, she explained that it was the increased sensitivity, focus and my lack of typical brutish male behaviors she had grown to hate in other guys.  I could barely restrain myself from asking her if it was the very prominent feminine side of me that appealed...

-Following the previous item, she also explained she really liked my array of interests and skills.  At the time I was teaching myself mainly French culinary techniques and traditional French pastry.  I have a fairly extensive knowledge of wine, I have a quite extensive knowledge of classical music, I'm pretty artistic yet I'm a scientist by profession and can do math and all that.  It sounds like a cheesy romantic comedy date movie, but it is what I am.   In this recent discussion, in viewing our courtship, she comically stated "You know, it was your cooking that got you laid!"  Specifically, it was a French Pithivier pastry.  I made the puff pastry and almond creme from scratch.  I'll never forget it.

-I'm not really certain what my sexual preferences would be if I were to transition.  There are several quite interesting threads on this topic here on Susan's.  I love my wife and would want to stay with her, continue to be intimate with her even after full transition to by best ability to predict.  I don't know exactly what that would make me... Bisexual, Lesbian, I-don't-know-what....   In principle, I suspect I would want to be with men once having made the transition but I do find women beautiful and appealing.  Once socially and "functionally" a woman, I'm not sure the attraction would be the same.  This is something that will have to just play out in time.   I have deep committed relationship with my wife that I would want to continue if she would be able but  I fear she would not go for a lesbian relationship with her former heterosexual husband now without male plumbing.

-When we are in a social group, I find myself ending up talking with the wives and women in general.  One of my wife's best friends, and admittedly, one of mine, too, is a serious  opera lover.  We share this interest.  My wife hates opera, her husband hates opera so I end up going to the opera with our mutual friend.  It's all very platonic, essentially a girl's matinee performance outing except I am not visibly one of the girls.

-The guys end up talking about their most recent  game of golf, football, pissing contests over who's car is coolest, etc.  I couldn't care less.  This is why I end up talking with the women.

-My wife likes adventure, I really like being around the house doing domestic things.  My idea of a vacation is to have several days or a week of time to in the comfort of home.

Maybe a little random so my apologies as needed.  I hope you get the idea you are not so alone here.  Also, like you, I'm one of Anne Vitale's "group 3" MtF's.  It describes me, even to the details of the profession, to the last detail.  So far, I have not been reduced to a fetal position weeping on my office floor.  The fine people on the SUsan's Place forum have saved me from that outcome.

Steph

[tanyaclark]

Thanks it's interesting to think about all this and get it out a bit.
Because I've just dealt with it for so long.

I agree with the social part of it all.
I think that is where a large desire to be female comes from.
It's the I want to be social with other women.  I want to dance as the woman.  I want to go out to a restaurant as the woman.  I want to be hit on as a woman. I want to flirt as a woman. I want to be touched as the woman. I want to shop as a woman. I want to dress as the woman and all that comes with that.
I've wanted that for a long time because doing it as a man never felt right or normal or fulfilling to me.
I never fit socially as a guy or at least that's how I view it.
All the things out in the world and not at home is what I view as I assume a female would.

Things that as a man I like sports and maybe work.
Albeit I might like both better as a woman too.

I can repress the female side most of the time but stuff triggers it off.
Going to a wedding for example and seeing extreme feminism and dancing.
That certainly triggers the I need to be a woman now.

I wish I had dealt with it all before wife and kids though.
Don't really want my struggle to cause others confusion.

The feelings still come and go.  But I have notice an increase in them over time.
Some days I'm female all in and others I can be like nah I don't want to do that.
I'll say only recently has thinking about sex as woman entered picture.
Before it was more just being and dress and acting as a woman.

I've always wondered if I did make the change.
Would I feel like a woman? Like would it just happen or would it be an act for a while or for life.
Does it feel like you're just wearing an elaborate mask? Does that fade?
I often wonder if everything I did would go through my conscious thought.
Like guy down the bar bought me a drink I should flirt with him.  I should do x then y then z.
Or I'm walking down the street I should focus on whatever.
I think that really also boils down to being touched and kissed and the like. 
Like can you let go or is it constantly I need to behave like this or move like this.
I assume HRT SRS etc and the everyday-ness of it causes you eventually just to let go of most things.
But I'm sure there are some things that you would dwell on.