FFS question

[Naomi71]

Yesterday I was with the psychologist of the VU genderteam in Amsterdam. I've been on hormones for some time now and it's all going very well, so we started discussing the next step: surgery. I will get my SRS, adam's apple reduction, possibly vocal chord surgery, probably won't need a breast enlargement looking at my rate of growth, that's all fine.


But to my mind (and the people constantly clocking me on the street), my face is way too masculine and I'll definitely need some facial surgery before I'm even remotely passable. So I told her that I'd love some forehead recontouring, a brow lift, orbit recontouring of my eyesockets and some chin/ jaw contouring. She disagrees with me though and believes my face is way more feminine than I perceive myself to be.

So my question: is there an objective way of determining the femininity of my face? How do I know if I'm just being dysmorphic and what is actually necessary for passing as a woman?

[warlockmaker]

Looking your profile pic you look fine as a female. I believe in maintaing a personality and I would only recommend the following:

1.Brow shave. This will make your forehead more feminine and reduce the depth of your eye socket.
2. Fatty injections in your upper lip for a fuller lip.

I am not in favor of jaw recontouring .  I have seen toi many mistakes in this area which has unfortunate results.

[Naomi71]

@warlockmaker

Thank you for your feedback. So what could go wrong with jaw recontouring? Are there any examples around?

[warlockmaker]

There are alot of nerves in the chin and jaw and if you go on the internet you will see.what can happen with muscle atrophy caused by nerve damage...sagging lip or jaw  on one side. But many have it done succesfully.

[Sophia Sage]

I'll go out on a limb and say you could benefit from the works.  You have a pronounced brow, which could be combined with moving your hairline foreward.  A new nose that isn't so prominent.  Square jaw, long chin, would definitely help to soften these features. The important thing is get competent surgeons for such corrections.

So no, you're not wrong in your perceptions, Naomi.  Here's the question -- what makes you feel dsyphoric when you look in the mirror?

[Naomi71]

I'll go out on a limb and say you could benefit from the works.  You have a pronounced brow, which could be combined with moving your hairline foreward.  A new nose that isn't so prominent.  Square jaw, long chin, would definitely help to soften these features. The important thing is get competent surgeons for such corrections.

So no, you're not wrong in your perceptions, Naomi.  Here's the question -- what makes you feel dsyphoric when you look in the mirror?

That's a good question. For over twenty years, I literally never looked in the mirror, because I couldn't stand the person I saw. That changed after I started transitioning and went fulltime. I enjoy what I see, take care of myself, actually am more at peace now, but not entirely confident yet. It's not just about my self image, but passability. I don't pass yet  and that was made painfully clear to me this weekend, when a guy on the street literally told his attack dog to get me. There was a male friend with me who could just in time stop the dog and then the guy started swearing at me. He wasn't even using a swear word for trans people, but told me I'm a "f*gg*t". I was in skinny jeans, wearing heels, makeup, all woman to me. Also, in the supermarket I'm consistently addressed with "sir". So my self image doesn't even matter.

On the other hand there's the psychologist, most of my friends and family who tell me how much I already changed in a short amount fo time, how feminine I look etc. But I have the nagging feeling they are just trying to be nice and affirmative.

So I try to look at myself in the mirror in some kind of objective way, to see what I could do with my face to not have incidents like that anymore. What then bothers me is mostly my forehead, jawline and chin. Not even because I don't like them myself, but because they make me less passable.

[Sophia Sage]

On the other hand there's the psychologist, most of my friends and family who tell me how much I already changed in a short amount fo time, how feminine I look etc. But I have the nagging feeling they are just trying to be nice and affirmative.

They are being nice and affirmative, because that's what we asked for when we "came out."  They are doing everything they can to support your narrative.  Which is wonderful!  But as a result they will not be as objective when it comes to such serious matters. 

Also... the people in our lives often subconsciously resist our more radical efforts to change.  They don't want to "lose" the person they love.

[EmilyMK03]

They are being nice and affirmative, because that's what we asked for when we "came out."  They are doing everything they can to support your narrative.  Which is wonderful!  But as a result they will not be as objective when it comes to such serious matters. 

Also... the people in our lives often subconsciously resist our more radical efforts to change.  They don't want to "lose" the person they love.

Lots of wisdom in these words.  I also agree with Sophia Sage's earlier comments about what FFS procedures you would benefit from.  But if you plan on having voice surgery someday, you might want to hold off on doing an adam's apple reduction.  See this thread in the VFS forum about the risks of doing a trachea shave before or after vocal surgery:  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,199278.0.html

[Naomi71]

They are being nice and affirmative, because that's what we asked for when we "came out."  They are doing everything they can to support your narrative.  Which is wonderful!  But as a result they will not be as objective when it comes to such serious matters. 

Also... the people in our lives often subconsciously resist our more radical efforts to change.  They don't want to "lose" the person they love.

Yes, they do support my narrative and they do cling to who I used to be. So true.

the risks of doing a trachea shave before or after vocal surgery

Hmm interesting..I believe they wil do my vocal chords and trachea shave during the same operation. But maybe my vocal chords won't be necessary, I am making progress doing voice therapy