How did you figuring out you're non-binary?

[Sebby Michelango]

How did you find out you're non-binary (e.g. agender, genderfluid, demi etc.)? I've heard that some non-binaries do experience gender dysphoria either socially or physical, but other doesn't. How do it work and how do you think your body are supposed to look alike? I'm new when it comes to the new-binary and wants to learn more about the topic. I knows that many trans women dreams about a female body and that trans guys dreams about a male body. But I hasn't heard anything about which bodies no-binaries dreams about.

[Elis]

For me it's been difficult. I hadn't dreamed I'd wake up male as a child; I was quite happy before puberty hit then I had extreme discomfort about my body and being seen as female. I didn't know what trans was until I was 19 snd then my discomfort made sense. I thought I was genderqueer very briefly then realised I absolutely hated being referred to as female. I saw the 'signs' growing up. Hated wearing dresses and liked playing with boys. Although I knew deep down I didn't feel completely male. On T I became more honest with myself and realised I felt agender. Without the pounding dyphoria it made me able to think clearer. Then discovered the term demiguy which fits me perfectly. I feel roughly 10%agender and the rest male. So I'd much prefer and feel more comfortable in a 'typical' male body. Plus the T has almost made my body and social dysphoria completely gone.

I think like binary trans people nb experience social dysphoria when they're not referred to as the correct gender and with the right pronouns. And/or body dysphoria when they feel mostly like a binary gender but their body doesn't reflect that or bcos their body doesn't look androgynous.

[Sno]

That's a tricky question...

The older expression is genderqueer, an umbrella term created for when we are clocked by both genders as not fitting, I have for a very long time felt 'alien'. I struggle to align with my gender assigned at birth, and fit much better with the opposite gender, but not completely. For me, I need a way to express both of these aspects without one being sacrificed to the detriment of another. I am non binary - somewhere in between.

Naturally, I get social dysphoria - felt as isolation, or loneliness, regardless of being in company or not. I choose to use the drab camouflage, as changing my appearance, won't help 'fit'. I am chronically aware of the rules around appearance, and that inhibits my expression (aka its bad, and I don't want to make it any worse). I also get physical dysphoria, but situation and circumstance mean that I do not feel that I need to transition.

In terms of appearance, and role, in the non-binary space it's a game of mitigation, try something and see if the dysphoria increases or decreases. It's a game of making our world more bearable, and that can be through a pursuit of visible androgyny.

In eclectic lableland, I would identify as neutrois  demigirl, as I feel roughly 20-80% of each, respectively.

Sno

[JoanneB]

For me.... Reality?  Hard core problem solving engineer speak

Every fact tells a story. Some stories overlap. In time you put together a picture. Over time, the picture can change.

Gender is but one aspect of myself. I am far more then a set of dangly bits (above or below the waist ) How I was raised, socialized, culturalized, in varying amounts, all went into what makes me, Me. My life... how it was lived, how is lived, how it needs to be lived are also in the mix.

Decades ago I saw no way can a 6ft tall balding fast guy in a world filled with 5'5" women can "Make it". Least not to my standards as in having some sort of a "Normal" life. Some degree being accepted as a woman, being able to land and keep a job doing what I love doing. Perhaps..... totally fantasy land, finding love! Wasn't in the cards. I was just "Some guy in a dress"

A few years ago I learned that I could. I found joy being the real me in the real world. The "Real" me as in being able to express... No Present in some small, safe way in controlled circumstances, my true self. Not a full, complete total RLE, but fairly close in many ways. What a difference a few decades and your life turning to crap can make.

But!  Great, I can realize a life long dream, at what cost? I worked hard to heal myself from the effects of a lifetime of fighting being trans. I managed to survive, to live. I still had a life. A life I mostly enjoyed, except for some 20% or so that reared it's ugly head at the worse of times. I learned I can in a some small way be complete, grab a hold of that missing 20%. But at what cost? How long until the other 80% of Me, largely put at risk of being lost, is, if ever? Is the gamble worth it?

Today, overall it is not worth the risk. HRT has saved my life. I enjoy living in my body. I still live and present primarily as male. I still have a career I cannot believe I can have since I get paid to have fun! There is my wife, BFF, and Reality Therapist who is largely responsible for me being able to take the lessons she tried to teach me and finally apply them to me. OK, she isn't too thrilled about how it totally turned out, but... I am waking up on the sunny side of the grass.

Some days are bad days. The Trans-Beast still rears it's ugly head. Dark, sad, depressing times lasting seconds to days in varying intensities. Far from most days. Less then then 20% of the days, less then 10% even.

When the Dark Days win out, Non-Binary will be No More

[sigsi]

Like Elis, I was mostly content before puberty (10). After that, I knew I was uncomfortable with *maturing* but didn't have an understanding of exactly how I felt until about 14. By 17 I knew what non-binary was thanks to AVEN (an asexual forum/site) and shortly after Neutrois Nonsense (a blog). I didn't accept that I was Neutrois until I was 19 though.
As for what I would ideally want for my body, it would basically be neutral. I'm not a fan of body hair and don't want mature body parts of any sex. For outward presentation, I am more comfortable presenting as an androgynous male.
Socially, I prefer they/them. Both "she" and "he" bother me, but "he" makes me a bit happier. I experience more physical dysphoria compared to social dysphoria, but my social dysphoria would mostly be from my name and stereotypical assumptions of cis-gender roles (girls talk more, guys are stronger, that kind of crap).
I also don't see myself being in a percentage of male or female. I just feel how I feel, which is sort of like both and neither at the same time all the time.
---------------------
A side note of an interesting thought I had as a kid (in reference to you mentioning what one would dream of becoming).
Around 7/8, I remember playing barbie dolls with my sister and thinking to myself that I would never look like Barbie did. Not in the "Barbie is an impossible" or "Barbie is my dream" type of way, but the "Barbie is Barbie, and I am me" type of way. I knew what puberty was by 8/9, but it didn't register that I would have to go through it and become "womanly". I thought I would grow up and be a larger version of my kid-self.
Looking back, I find it kind of amusing how my thoughts haven't really changed.

[Asche]

In my view, at least, "non-binary" says what you aren't, not what you are.

I've known all my life that I didn't fit in to my assigned gender (male) -- and got brutally reminded of it often enough that I couldn't forget it.  But I mostly simply assumed I was just a really defective guy and built up an identity as a guy who wasn't ever going to measure up to being what a guy was supposed to be and was making a virtue of it.  (Cf.: the fox and the grapes.)

But neither did I ever have a sense of "being a girl."  I mostly feel like some sort of alien (cf.: Brother from Another Planet.)  I'm transitioning, but it feels less like becoming "the woman I've always been" than moving into a role that allows me to be more who I am.  It's still a role, but, like shoes, some fit better than others.  (You know, the way soft, furry moccasins "fit better" than 10-penny nails driven through the soles of your feet?)  I have trouble understanding GenderFluid because I have no idea what it means to feel "more like a boy today" or "more like a girl."

This is one reason I feel more comfortable here in the Non-Binary forum than in the Transgender Forum.  I read all these people who talk about finding out they are really male/female.  And in real life, I run across so many trans women who are so certain that their True Selves are women, and I don't feel any of that.  My True Self (whoever he/she is) is Just Me.  Gender is, for me, just a sense that so many people around me have and are inexplicably attached to and expect me to be attached to, too, but when I get away from other people, I also get away from Gender, and I get to be Just Me.

tl;dr:  I say I'm non-binary because, although I'm living in a gender role, I don't have any inner sense of a gender.

BTW, if asked what I identify as, my first answer is "techie" (someone who likes to make things work), and my second: radical feminist.

[jujubes1986]

What is non binary?


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[Asche]

What is non binary?

A person who is non-binary is someone whose gender identity/expression/sense of who they are doesn't fit into either the male category or the female category.

"Binary" refers to the assumption that everyone is either Male(tm) or Female(tm), not both and not neither.  Usually also the assumption that one's gender is inborn.

(Is this a trick question?)

[jujubes1986]

Thanks! I really didn't know what non-binary... there's just so many labels, it's hard to keep up!


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[Asche]

BTW, "non-binary", like "transgender", is an umbrella term.  There are many ways to be non-binary.  E.g.:

* Gender fluid -- the "somedays I feel more like a girl, some days I feel more like a boy, and sometimes I feel somewhere in between" identity.
* Agender/neutrois -- no sense of having any gender.
* Androgynous -- feeling like a mix of male and female gender characteristics, or feeling somewhere in between female and male.

There are lots of others that I haven't thought of.

Plus, you can have a non-binary identity but have a binary presentation.  (Like me!)

On the other hand, you can have a binary identity but gender-variant presentation -- e.g., I've seen AFAB posters who say they feel like they are definitely male, but still (sometimes? always?) like to wear feminine clothing.  ("Can I still be a guy if I like to weary flowery frilly sundresses?")



We've got quite a bestiary here under the transgender umbrella!

[jujubes1986]

BTW, "non-binary", like "transgender", is an umbrella term.  There are many ways to be non-binary.  E.g.:

* Gender fluid -- the "somedays I feel more like a girl, some days I feel more like a boy, and sometimes I feel somewhere in between" identity.
* Agender/neutrois -- no sense of having any gender.
* Androgynous -- feeling like a mix of male and female gender characteristics, or feeling somewhere in between female and male.

There are lots of others that I haven't thought of.

Plus, you can have a non-binary identity but have a binary presentation.  (Like me!)

On the other hand, you can have a binary identity but gender-variant presentation -- e.g., I've seen AFAB posters who say they feel like they are definitely male, but still (sometimes? always?) like to wear feminine clothing.  ("Can I still be a guy if I like to weary flowery frilly sundresses?")



We've got quite a bestiary here under the transgender umbrella!

Wow that's complicated!


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[Sebby Michelango]

Wow that's complicated!


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I do also thinks the diversity in the non-binary and trans umbrella spectrum is very complicated.

[Elis]

I do also thinks the diversity in the non-binary and trans umbrella spectrum is very complicated.

Was for me at first. You should check out 'the non binary network' blog on tumblt and youtube if you want to learn more. I find Tumblr the best resourse to find out about nb identities.

[jamie-lee]

How did I figure out I am non-binary. To make a long story short, it's that I'm not either or. I'm not binary trans. I identify as a man, and I'm fine being a woman. I don't identify as solely a woman , so I'm not completely cis, and I'm not completely trans either.

[Elis]

How did I figure out I am non-binary. To make a long story short, it's that I'm not either or. I'm not binary trans. I identify as a man, and I'm fine being a woman. I don't identify as solely a woman , so I'm not completely cis, and I'm not completely trans either.

Actually trans is an umbrella term meaning anyone who doesn't identify with their assigned gender; so you'd still be trans . You sound genderqueer but yeah; it's easy to feel bogged down by labels.

[jamie-lee]

Actually trans is an umbrella term meaning anyone who doesn't identify with their assigned gender; so you'd still be trans . You sound genderqueer but yeah; it's easy to feel bogged down by labels.

Okey then. So I'm trans, but not binary trans. I like the freedom "genderqueer" gives, really, and feel at home in the genderqueer approach to gender, in general, but I realise I'm not the classic enby either, because I'm more like kinda trans and not transitioning, but I identify as a woman in some way too, and it's all confusing. So. Not either or.

[jujubes1986]

I'm just human being! So much
Labels I can't keep up


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[Asche]

I'm just human being! So much
Labels I can't keep up

To say a person's gender is "non-binary" is like saying a color is "not red or green."  There are lots of colors, and people keep coming up with new names for different shades of color.

So there are lots of ways to be that aren't just plain "male" or "female."

Not to mention that there are lots of ways to be "male", like macho male, metrosexual male, etc., and similarly for "female."

I'm not sure how much you actually need to know about people you just run into in the supermarket; name and pronouns are probably good enough (and if they change from day to day, IMHO, it's kind of on them to track it anyway.)

For people you know well and are good friends with, you'd probably want more details than a label can supply, just the way with a good friend you know if they like peanut brittle ice cream or not (and if you don't know, you just ask!)

[CV]

I think for me, transition helped.
It clarified I was not binary by my aversion to complete binary transition. People told me it was common to identify as genderqueer when you didn't want to commit to "coming out" as trans, testing the waters like, but once you accepted it and started transition, you "graduated" to accepting you were a woman/man and were just unsure before.
For me, when the highly gendering bits of HRT developed, I counteracted them with elements from transitioning the other way, to keep me androgynous. Many binary transfolk are thrilled when they start looking more male/female, not interested in countering gendering elements.
Socially, it also showed up when I had the opportunity, having met the criteria, to change my paperwork legally to the opposite gender if I wished. Instead, I went through complicated and little known legal passages to have myself declared unspecified. My legal name is neutrally gendered. I don't insist on pronouns, content with however people want to reference me - male, female, queer, he, she, they, whatever. I am not offended when people call me sir, or ma'am.
I dream of my body being totally genderqueer, with no cis anatomy at all. Which seems to be going well so far.
All this indicates to me that I am truly in-between, I'm not confused or scared or in denial about what I am. If I was really binary, there's been plenty of opportunity to understand and express it, and in many ways, it would have been simpler for me to identify so. That I consistently don't tells me I'm genderqueer.

[Ayla]

Great thread.  My understanding of my self seems to have evolved in lock step with that of the medical and therapy professions.  I have had gender dysphoria for many years.  I didn't have a name for this stress until 2009.  I first sought help in 1992.

In 1992 it was a very binary world - no color and no space other than a transitioning space as folk moved from their birth assigned gender to the opposite or target gender.

Between 1992 and 2009 I tried cross dressing, attended many trans conventions etc and eventually took transition level hormones and had numerous FFS procedures.  However I found that I was increasingly uncomfortable rather than comfortable when faced with the likelihood and reality of a full transition.  Presenting female felt that I was just switching roles, that it was just as much an act as the binary alpha male role which I had clung to, through much of my life.

If I hadn't met a therapist who talked of a variety of non binary options and their validity, I believe that I was heading towards disaster.  A supportive endo worked with me on low dose therapy and over many years this has developed into a very careful and ongoing flexing in my dosage to achieve and to maintain a point of equilibrium.  At 50 plus years I was never interested in tipping my life upside down but I was desperate to deal with my dysphoria.  The hrt did this.  Many times I have tried to reduce or to stop hrt but the dysphoria has always returned, twice as strong. Interestingly I had a bilateral breast reduction when I found that my body was changing more quickly than I could deal with emotionally .. they have since returned but this time I am ok with this. 

On my journey I played with labels, I even tried some on for a while, but in the end I am best described by name and by action.  I have relaxed my rigid alpha male presentation - my hair is longer, all body and facial hair have been removed and most everyone in my life knows that I am trans, non binary.  I now also understand from friends that many nb friends have found that a full physical transition has afforded them greater flexibility and acceptance when presenting as andro etc but I seem to have inched towards the same end point and now inhabit a similar space.  I am andro, I am gender fluid and I am happy.  Will I fully transition? I don't think so.  One thing however I am clear on is that I am non binary, I need hrt and I feel a whole lot more comfortable without dysphoria and being able to express the full range of human emotion and attributes.

safe travels

aisla