Butch presentation advice (MTF)

[nomadjoanne]

First off, I'm a long time lurker, who finally signed up. So hey y'all. A lot of these discussions have helped me out over the years!

I have a passing question: I'm almost 26 years old, tall, skinny, almost 2 years on HRT and am scheduled for FFS in May.

I always have been a very androgynous individual. I present in androgynous clothing, have an androgynous hairstyle, and that is where I am most comfortable and happy. I may wish my face were a bit more feminine, but I actually didn't have horrible luck either. I'm hoping FFS will just give me a little extra boost.

I have many cis andro/butch female friends who are occasionally read as guys (maybe ~10-15% of the time), but waaay less than me (~50-75%). Their faces and their bodies speak for themselves. I like the occasional gender double-take that strangers do, but I would like to get within their general range of passibility. But is that possible with a frame that, while certainly not a quarterback's, is objectively male/masculine?

I'd like to pass better, but I'd also like to be true to myself. Anyone here been through this, or have friends who have? Any tips?

[Jacqueline]

Hi and welcome to the site.

I am not looking to label you, but knowing where you are in any sort of presenting or transition or treatment might help us to answer this more fully.

There are many who went from very large masculine frames to fairly small and svelte. It is usually through a combination of HRT, exercise and eating habits. I am not saying that bone structure is changed but muscle mass, and fat (re)distribution  can help in being read as more female.

I am sure there are more on here that can help more. If you have lurked you must have seen what is coming next.

I want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to:

Things that you should read

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
  
• Reputation rules
  
• News posting & quoting guidelines
  
• Photo, avatars, and signature images policy
  

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

[flytrap]

I'm confused whether you are "tall, skinny" or have "a frame that, while certainly not a quarterback's, is objectively male/masculine?"

Alot has to do with weight. Nobody thinks twice when they see a tall skinny girl. 5'10" guys are 185 pounds . But people expect a girl that tall to be 130.

[nomadjoanne]

@flytrap: Hey, thanks for your thoughts! I am quite tall and skinny. 6', ~120lbs. When I said "while certainly not a quarterback's but objectively masculine" I merely meant that squared-off look male torsos have. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Also, Joanna50, thanks for linking me to the rules.

[flytrap]

Yup, that's girl skinny! How about your style of clothes? It's easy for people to mistake a tall girl for a guy if they only take a quick and she has on jeans and a tee?

[nomadjoanne]

Yeah... that's the problem. I do enjoy a butch-ish presentation. When going out I usually go for button-ups. Sometimes jeans but more usually some sort of black, red or checkered pants.

My sister in fact said to me, "For God's sake, Joanne, you're feminine enough! You could pass right now. You really could! Just stop wearing this lesbian >-bleeped-<!"

It isn't remotely bad to wear more feminine clothing. It's great if it suits you! But it just isn't me...

[flytrap]

Ah hah! Can you maybe bring yourself to wear frilly things and brighter colors or bold lipstick? It definitely sounds more like people are making a mistake than that they think you look like a guy!

Just like guys with long hair getting mistaken for girls, every once in awhile if somebody only takes a taking a quick look will think any tall girl is a guy. Especially if she is wearing casual clothes like jeans and a tee. It isn't something to get upset about. The person isn't being mean or saying she looks like a guy. They just made a mistake because she is tall.

I'm barely tall enough to be a model (5'10"), but waaay too fat (145 pounds). It happened when I was shopping yesterday. I was standing in the aisle and a guy was trying to come through with dolly of big boxes. He tried to be polite and said excuse me "sir." I figured he was talking to somebody so I didn't move. That gave him a second to realize I was a girl and he said "I'm sorry mam, can you let me by?" I knew it was just a mistake but I'm sure he felt bad about it.

[Tessa James]

We have frequent discussions here about passing and you may want to check on a simple search.  It is not our place to question your presentation.   I know FtMs that rock on with skirts and makeup and I like to think that the gender spectrum is wide enough to include MtFs that feel and look butch too.  I equate butch with strong and strong women rock.

Any way you find to present as your most authentic, true and real self is the healthy way to go.  I identity as non binary and female.  I am 5'11" and still have a typical male frame plus years of softening with HRT.  This can lead to my being seen as a butch fem person.  I am fine with that and just this week was mistaken for another person who was at a "dyke event".  Beauty is often said to be in the eyes of the beholder.  Hopefully those who find us interesting enough will desire to get past the cover of our book.

It is who you are that really counts and I urge you to consider that we all pass best as our unique selves.  I chased gender stereotypes first as a would be man and then as my stereotypical vision of being a woman.  Part of my growing up is realizing the differences between those culturally pervasive stereotypes and the joy of being just me.

[Lunacorn]

When I said "while certainly not a quarterback's but objectively masculine" I merely meant that squared-off look male torsos have.

That makes me jealous