Public restroom

[Susan]

I still maintain that the best solution is for all public restrooms to be multi-user unisex with private stalls and a common sink area. Equal for everybody.

We disagree mac1, while I support having private stalls in restrooms, I would be uncomfortable with having unisex restrooms.  Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

I know full well it would not be a transgender person doing so, but it's way too easy for a man to overpower a woman and push her back into a stall as she's trying to exit. Combine that with a weapon and threat, or their simply knocking her unconscious, and unless someone saw the assault happen, the rapist would likely get away with it at least initially...

Even if not raped or assaulted, sexual harassment of women happens way too often, and it's often either not reported or often even against the law unless it happens in a work place like in Tennessee.

Unisex restrooms makes accessibility to the victim way too easy.

At least with gender segregated restrooms someone seeing a obviously male individual entering or leaving a ladies room would likely raise an alarm. Yes that may result in transgender person being embarrassed or having to explain that they are transgender becoming an opportunity for education; but it could also potentially prevent a rape, or help someone who is actively being sexually assaulted.

The best solution is to use the restroom that matches your gender presentation. If you are dressed and presenting as a man use the men's room, dressed and presenting as a woman use the ladies room; gender neutral use your best judgement.

[zirconia]

Hi, Susan

It may be that Mac1 has visited or lived in Scandinavia. I myself was a bit surprised when I used the restrooms in one of Stockholm's largest department stores four or five years ago. It was completely non-segregated—the interior consisted of private stalls, with a spacious communal wash-counter. A nominal entrance fee (not a tip) was required to enter. This was also the case with the public non-segregated bathrooms at a park I visited in Helsinki. Someone told me the fees are used to cover cleaning and maintenance. Both locations were certainly very clean and well maintained.

For what it's worth, both men and women using the facilities I saw appeared untroubled by the arrangement. Perhaps life is more dangerous in the U.S.A than Europe—but of course this was some years ago. I've heard that recently some immigrants to Sweden have attacked local women on the streets, so things may have changed.

[j-unique]

We disagree mac1, while I support having private stalls in restrooms, I would be uncomfortable with having unisex restrooms.

I'm very uncomfortable with dually gendered restrooms. I'm unsure where to go, and "best judgement" is not very useful for me. It means that I can't feel secure (and get looks etc.) at either location. -Portion of post removed under TOS 10. IE: Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation. -

Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

Most assault and rape cases do not happen in public restrooms. Of course, some do, like recently when a woman was raped in a big city nearby recently (I could provide sources). And guess where it happened? Yes, a "women's" restroom on a highly frequented train station with video surveillance and police presence. I wonder why some people think that violent aggressors who are willing to rape someone will stop when they see a sign with a dress.

[Devlyn]

We disagree mac1, while I support having private stalls in restrooms, I would be uncomfortable with having unisex restrooms.  Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

I know full well it would not be a transgender person doing so, but it's way too easy for a man to overpower a woman and push her back into a stall as she's trying to exit. Combine that with a weapon and threat, or their simply knocking her unconscious, and unless someone saw the assault happen, the rapist would likely get away with it at least initially...

Even if not raped or assaulted, sexual harassment of women happens way too often, and it's often either not reported or often even against the law unless it happens in a work place like in Tennessee.

Unisex restrooms makes accessibility to the victim way too easy.

At least with gender segregated restrooms someone seeing a obviously male individual entering or leaving a ladies room would likely raise an alarm. Yes that may result in transgender person being embarrassed or having to explain that they are transgender becoming an opportunity for education; but it could also potentially prevent a rape, or help someone who is actively being sexually assaulted.

The best solution is to use the restroom that matches your gender presentation. If you are dressed and presenting as a man use the men's room, dressed and presenting as a woman use the ladies room; gender neutral use your best judgement.

For me, that means the one with the shortest line! 

Hugs, Devlyn

[DuchessBianca]

My comment on legal reasons was essentially tongue and cheek and I realize passsing or not passing 100% isn't what matters restroom wise, though for me personally its a matter of mental fortitude and confidence. Having severe social anxiety most of my life it makes it hard for me to interact with anyone in public and at my current state I don't think I could even enter the ladies room without a clear look of nervousness/rouse suspicion to other people in it. That's wear  passing personally for me takes it's place, If i can feel confident enough in my looks as feminine then that will directly help effect my ability to feel/act natural in such a situation where as where I am now not so much haha

[Susan]

Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

Most assault and rape cases do not happen in public restrooms. Of course, some do, like recently when a woman was raped in a big city nearby recently (I could provide sources). And guess where it happened? Yes, a "women's" restroom on a highly frequented train station with video surveillance and police presence. I wonder why some people think that violent aggressors who are willing to rape someone will stop when they see a sign with a dress.

No one suggested that it's an iron clad protection however I specifically addressed this in my post.

At least with gender segregated restrooms someone seeing a obviously male individual entering or leaving a ladies room would likely raise an alarm. Yes that may result in transgender person being embarrassed or having to explain that they are transgender becoming an opportunity for education; but it could also potentially prevent a rape, or help someone who is actively being sexually assaulted.

I am sorry you are uncomfortable with restrooms as they are currently situated. Many places have a single occupancy restroom usually for handicapped, mothers with children, or people in a situation like yours where you are just uncomfortable using public restrooms. With that being said, I maintain my stated objections to unisex restrooms.

The example rape you included in your post makes my point perfectly especially when combined with my point about the accessibility to the victim provided by unisex restrooms making it way to easy.

Hi, Susan

It may be that Mac1 has visited or lived in Scandinavia. I myself was a bit surprised when I used the restrooms in one of Stockholm's largest department stores four or five years ago. It was completely non-segregated—the interior consisted of private stalls, with a spacious communal wash-counter. A nominal entrance fee (not a tip) was required to enter. This was also the case with the public non-segregated bathrooms at a park I visited in Helsinki. Someone told me the fees are used to cover cleaning and maintenance. Both locations were certainly very clean and well maintained.

For what it's worth, both men and women using the facilities I saw appeared untroubled by the arrangement. Perhaps life is more dangerous in the U.S.A than Europe—but of course this was some years ago. I've heard that recently some immigrants to Sweden have attacked local women on the streets, so things may have changed.

That may be however Europe is a different environment, almost a different world totally than the United States.

Sweden was quoted as having 5,960 reported rapes in 2010

The United States was at 84,767 which is a lower number of reported rapes per 100,000 than Sweden based on the population difference, but most rapes are not reported. I know I didn't report mine.

Maybe that is the difference in opinions on the matter; the experience of someone who hasn't been raped or sexually assaulted, vs that of someone who has

[mac1]

Multi-user unisex should provide a greater degree of safety than gender segregated.

(1) There will usually be more people in there at any time. Thus, you will be less likely to be alone with a pervert.  Gendered facilities are not a guarantee of not encountering a pervert.

(2) If the woman has a male friend or spouse he will be able to go in with her.

(3) Young girls can be accompanied by their father. Note: it has always been possible for mothers to take young boys in with them.

These are only a few relative safety issues that I can think of at this time.  In addition you have facility space concerns, possibility of greater stall capacity, equal wait times, etc.

[Susan]

We shall agree to disagree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/18/these-are-the-forgotten-sexual-assault-victims-in-europe/

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2016/jani071516.htm

http://www.dallasvoice.com/update-rape-victim-speaks-10212099.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/1481060/woman-allegedly-raped-in-bathroom-of-jay-zs-4040-club/

It's sad when the original poster feels the need to send me a message apologizing for what the thread became.  Locked