Non-Binary Dysphoria

[amazonprincess]

In advance i apologize if this is a bad question or i'm doing something offensive, please stop me if i am but let me know so i understand, ummm from what i've been told by i won't lie from youtuber's who said non-binary people don't face dysphoria but recently after doing some more reasearch, listening to non-binary people i've heard that non-binary people do get dysphoria...my question what is non-binary dypshoria like/to the non-binary here how do you experience dysphoria if you do *big hugs*. I don't want to stirr anything. i just want to learn.

[Elis]

That youtuber sounds ignorant to me and maybe also transphobic. Your question definitely isn't .There are many different types of nb identities. Some want a body that looks more like the opposite gender they were assigned at birth, some want a more androgynous body bcos it makes them feel more comfortable. Similarly if a nb person feels strongly unaligned with female or male they may feel social dysphoria if you use masculine or feminine pronouns.

Like binary trans people the dysphoria experienced differs a lot, it can be severe or just a small nuisance in the back of a person's mind. It can be just social or body related or both.

For me I feel mostly male but very slightly agender. I feel a lot more comfortable with a typical male body and the T has made the dysphoria almost non existant. Male pronouns make me feel hugely better but still slightly dysphoric and uncomfortable; bcos I'm  not 100% male. Gender neutral pronouns would make me feel completely comfortable I think.

Hope this has helped

[Tessa James]

I don't think, as a category, Non Binary people are much different about dysphoria.  I have met lots of us and, dysphoria seems to vary more by individual. 

Speaking for myself, I feel my overall gender dysphoria has been episodic and I would find coping techniques to help.   I did not suffer from the acute genital dysphoria some of us experience and perhaps why GAS/SRS was not a major goal for me.

Our level of dysphoria, social or otherwise, is not any sort of barometer or validation of how much a transgender or transsexual person we are IMO.  Suffering does not necessarily build character, it can be crippling rather than ennobling.

[Ayla]

Dysphoria for non binaries seems to be similar to that of the general trans population in that it can vary over time and by situation.  In my case, increasing and ultimately crippling dysphoria started when I was 4 and continued until I found hrt and transitioned from the binary alpha male simulcrum that I had built around me in my mid 50s. 

Even now as a non binary on hrt, post FFS, with hair permanently removed and andro presenting, my dysphoria is still lurking in the shadows and rears its head when I feel disrespected or seen as gay, in binary transition or otherwise not identified or accepted as NB. 

Ours is a strange journey and is in many ways unique to the individual.  There are many similarities and many points of difference both between non binaries and across the broader trans population.

Safe travels

Aisla

[Raell]

I agree. I keep saying that Thailand seems to have the solution for this; people gender themselves as they speak, and Thai Buddhism accepts a Third Gender. Also, in general conversation, pronouns are seldom used, and many pronouns can go both ways. Instead of referring to someone or to themselves with a gender pronoun, most Thai use a word that means "older' (pee) or "younger (nong) and if they are much younger, "mouse" (noo), so their conversations are mostly gender-free.

I hope the non-binary group, of whom I consider myself a sort of member, keep hammering on the laws to allow a third gender to be recognized, and the acceptance of gender neutral pronouns. The easiest way would be to use the plural, but then most cis people would likely object to any changes.

I feel uneasy when gendered female, and happy when gendered as male, but I don't claim to be either, and see myself as a gender blend, a bit heavier on the male side.

[Drexy/Drex]

Intersting , when i first met my doc i said to her i did not suffer Dysphoria ie genital type etc not in the classic sense
However i dont like having my photo  taken and i really dont like looking at photos  of myself
When i look in the mirror  i am sometimes  revolted .....
I dont mind my male body and many others dont mind it either  though my hands are too big and i feel the shape of my head is wrong
But i feel i would be happier  in a more feminized  body, andro verging on female ,though i never intend to have srs
I did get seriously  offended when my therapist kept remarking on my various very masculine traits however went into some kind of depression  for a while
Is this some kind of dysphoria ?  I consider  myself non binary
Oh yes i believe  in a third gender  and the cislords need to be made aware of it

[Raell]

Yup.

That's definitive for dysphoria.

Many/most transgender people can't stand to look in the mirror, think their bodies are "wrong." I couldn't even look at photos of myself, cringed whenever someone used my feminine name. I didn't know what was wrong, though. I thought I was hideously ugly since I started puberty and got all those ugly lumps of fat on my legs and chest, but now when I look back, I was very pretty.

[Drexy/Drex]

Thanks for your insight : ) I've   been wondering about this for some time
Yes thats how i feel about my looks i feel i look strange ,ugly, others have said i am good looking  but i have always felt they were just being kind i still believe that and i doubt i could be convinced  other wise
So looks like i do have some sort of dysphoria

[CV]

@ Raell - I was looking into how nonbinary folk would fare in Thailand just today, as I'm interested in travelling there and was an encouraged by their varied gender expression. But from the casual reading one does online, much of it focuses on "ladyboys" and not much else. I wondered how an androgynous genderqueer would go in everyday life, as I'm never sure if I'm being interpreted as a man or woman, so wouldn't automatically know which role may be offending others.
As for dysphoria, I can only say I'm genderqueer and a gender therapist for SRS described my issues as "one of the most extreme cases of dysphoria I've seen."
Transition helps this but it's still awkward as I'm not "done." If you're in the middle, you can actually have dysphoria in both directions, being uncomfortable with anything on you that genders you, so in a sense get the dysphoria of both a transwoman and a transman.
But like everyone else has said genderqueers are a varied bunch. I know some who are strongly genderqueer, but do not transition and are perfectly fine with their bodies, and being gendered as their birth genders. Others have just as much dysphoria as any binary transsexual.
Fun. 

[Raell]

I think the "ladyboy" fixation in travel brochures is because closeted bisexual Caucasian men feel it's OK to have sex with them, since the ladyboys are dressed as females. To the Westerners, it doesn't really count as having "gay" sex.

In Thai society, though, ladyboys, or kathoey, mingle with the mainstream and have normal careers.
They see themselves as highly femme gay males who dress as women, but don't consider themselves transgender.

I'm non-binary, but most of my dysphoria is in the female direction since that is the gender I resemble, so my male side resists.

Thai seem fine with people who are non-binary. In fact, a high percentage of them are both non-binary and bisexual, and traditional casual Thai clothes can be worn by either gender. When I first moved here, I started wearing the androgynous, baggy Thai pants and shirts, so had no problem continuing my unisex look.

I noticed that most of the Europeans I saw here were also dressed androgynously.

Later, I began designing/sewing my own clothes for work and play, so I can skate even closer to the center line.

[JoanneB]

People often making the mistake of forgetting or not knowing that "TransGender" is a spectrum that covers anything and everything between Cis-Female and Cis-Male. Within that spectrum also resides the Non-Binaries of the world, those that don't neatly fit close to the opposite ends of female or male.

I suspect these youtubers (I hope) are just ignorant. There seems to be this "Expectation", or definition, of what a TG person is, even within the community. This shows up in many different ways. Perhaps I see it a lot since "Living up to Expectations" is a bit of a thing for me. If you are truly "Trans" then thou shall look a certain way, act a certain way and do all sorts of things in the quest to heal thyself. A bit of irony I think when not fitting into "The Binary" of male or female is what being trans is. Yet there are the preachers out there that know the way to the promised land

IMO, "Non-Binary" is a simple way for a person to self-describe that they feel or know they don't fit into some ideal or expectations for gender or even life-style. A clean simple term for deeply complicated, deeply personal choices and decisions.

Well, I can tell you for me trying to fit into that model for "Trans" sure led to a lot of depression as well as a far from "Optimum" life lived. (I refuse to say wasted, it was and is far from it) Because of failed transition experiments back in my early 20's (not fitting into said expectations of trans), this round peg decided to force fit myself back into a square hole. Even 7 years ago when I saw that this wasn't working I still sort "wanted" myself to fit into that round hole that time. But still at 6ft tall, big everything, deep voice and now a very deeply entrenched male life it wasn't going to happen without likely blowing up everything else that meant something to me, that I defined myself by

I have had no doubt I felt and wanted to be a girl since like the age of 4. HRT, even low dose, has been a life saver for me. Today I have a body I feel good about living in, which was a totally foreign concept until these past few years. I obtained my life long dream of being seen as a woman experiencing the sheer joy of being Me as I moved about the real world as the real me. All the time still retaining my very well entrenched life as "him". The dangly bits never really freaked me out. Life is what it is. You play the hand you were dealt. The boys and I have had some great times together. Balding since 14 bothers me more. (OK 'bothered'. That ship sank long ago)

I medically transitioned with HRT. No surgeries as yet. Lived part time as a woman so in a way socially transitioned. Now thanks to shedding a ton of emotional baggage, I know if I NEEDED to I can and will do full-time. Today, I only want to, but.... life is complicated 

So which label am I? Trans-woman? Transsexual woman? Androgyne? Male cross-dresser? Freak? (just covering all the bases) Or the quick, easy NB since I don't neatly fit into female, nor even male these days with a B cup.

[Raell]

I dunno..you sound perfect to me.
What you describe is common also in Thailand-there seems to be a high percentage of non-binary and bisexual people among Asians in general. I can't always tell what bio gender someone is, but have lived here so long I no longer care.

Also, in Asia, names don't help. People have numerous complicated official names but go by short, simple nicknames that usually have no link to gender.

I've learned in class not to assume the gender of any particular student since children typically must dress as their bio genders, no matter their gender identities. For instance, sometimes pretty girls in school uniform skirts and blouses are "Toms" (transmales).
Since students typically sit only with their own gender group, I note any students in the "wrong" section and ask them which gender they are.

It doesn't matter if the student is a bio male wearing pants and shirt-if he says he's a girl, that's the pronoun I then use.
If I forget, the other students will remind me in a matter-of-fact manner.
"No, Teacher, Dome is a girl."

[Satinjoy]

Getting back to dysphoria, I consider myself to be clearly nonbinary, and I suffer from a very unpleasant and intense mtf type dysphoria.   Bad enough to nearly crack up here around 2 or 3 years ago.

Yet I live as an androgyne socially - pushed either male or female on a whim, as well as a fully passing woman socially.

At home, when the night begins, its a different story.   Its all girl - but I am no op, and have the strangest reaction to the idea of SRS thing.   So, like Joanne, who I remember from the old days, I am fine with living as me.

I don't try to define it.  But don't ever even think about taking my high dose hrt away....God Forbid.

As to the you tuber.....

ummmm.  NO.   And TMMV.  We are as varied a group as we are people, everyone has their own experience, and for some of us, dysphoria is torture, and we follow the same trans physical narrative as the TS boys and girls, to alleviate the pain.

And I am in that boat right there, and its floating pretty good these days.

Satin Joy.

[B...something]

I'm new here, and this confused me for the longest time too.  The first stories I read about Trans people's experiences always seemed to mention how much they dislike their genitals, which has not been my experience at all.  I like mine just fine.  But also, if I woke up tomorrow with a vagina, that'd be cool too(okay--actually, I'd be very concerned about such a dramatic, spontaneous, causeless transformation, but you get my drift). 

Other things do bother me though.  I hate(and I mean HATE) the hair on my face, and I'd like to have wider hips, but I don't have boobs and could not care less. 

There have been times when I wished I felt more strongly dysphoric, so I'd at least understand what I'm supposed to be, but I guess that's not my path.

[Satinjoy]

Trust me honey, not being dysphoric is a gift.

Different for all of us.  And its all valid and real.  Imo.

[JoanneB]

Trust me honey, not being dysphoric is a gift.

Give me a B I G  AMEN

[starryeyed]

I'm trying to figure out what exactly dysphoria is too. For me, it's stuff like being called by my birthname or being referred to female. I feel like I'm being lowkey stabbed honestly. Seeing my body makes me uneasy too. I don't like having boobs or wide hips or any of that. Like it's not an extreme reaction, just a general feeling of 'this is wrong'.