Soft Skills

[tanyaclark]

I guess I mean the skills that a woman learns over time... especially if you start in your 30s, 40s+

It seems that besides the obvious Breasts, FFS and Voice that a lot rides on these day to day type skills.
For passing that is.

Maybe the question(s) are more
How did you personally approach...

  makeup skills (I think that can help pass or un-pass you the most) How'd you got about learning those for your age?
  hair skills (especially if you had almost no hair maintenance before)
  learning how to purchase clothes for your age, body type, or special events or normal work
  undergarments ( bras, pantyhose, etc. )
  walking sitting standing ( normally and with stuff like heels )
  eating
  general etiquette ( what a woman would never do in public vs man )
  learning how to give up normal male responses ( like door holding vs going through )
  learning how to converse ( maybe more so in women group sense, but also with the men )
  how to flirt or kiss or show feminine interest or smile and enjoy male interest ( like how to position oneself as the female and not the male )

I know practice certainly helps.
I also know that time to practice isn't endless and that being in the real world comes at you fast.

I'm wondering how long you have to actually think things through before you become female.
Like I assume somewhat it seems like a mask or a game for a good while until the female in you becomes #1 and male disappears. Or at least I hope it lessens.
How did you overcome that hurdle of not having to think womanly but just do it?

Thoughts -
Like I'm walking down the street here I should watch for cracks, I should stride like this, what are my arms doing...
Or I'm gonna dance what do I need to do as a woman to seem like a woman.
Or I'm going through the mall or super market what do I need to do to blend.

I also don't mean this in the notice me way, more like how do I just do normal average everyday woman in the world way.  Go out to eat or shop or work or walk to the park or workout just blend into background most days.

[Denise]

Wow, lots of questions.  I would say observe women around you. 

One of the things to watch is girls don't take up a lot of space while sitting or standing.  Guys tend to spread out.  Legs wide, arms over the back of chairs etc.

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

[KathyLauren]

A lot of it is practice and people-watching.  You could do a lot worse than to park yourself on a bench at the mall and just watch people going by.

  makeup skills
My wife disqualified herself as a teacher for this, so I got a friend to teach me the basics.  Now, it is just practice.

  hair skills
Time and testosterone gave me no choice: I wear a wig.  My wife helped me choose it.

  learning how to purchase clothes for your age, body type, or special events or normal work
My wife and I go clothes shopping together.  She helps me find stuff that will look good on me, but I have a pretty good sense of what I like, what looks good on me, and what goes with what.  One of the most liberating things about this stage of transition is discovering my own fashion sense.

  undergarments
This is all you, honey.  Buy whatever makes you feel good.

  walking sitting standing
There are all kinds of online guides for this.  Somewhere out there is a nifty web page that shows an animated stick figure walking, that you can control with a slider from male to female and anything in between.  It's fun to play with, and more useful than it sounds.  Men walk hunched forward; women stick their tits out.  If you're going to wear a skirt or dress, keep your knees together when you sit!

  eating
Other than eating less because I need to lose a few pounds, I don't worry about this.  Sounds a bit too Emily Post for me.

  general etiquette
Just watch what women do.

  learning how to give up normal male responses
I see nothing wrong with a women holding a door for another woman.  Just graciously accept it when the favour is returned.

  learning how to converse
At the weekly community kaffee klatsch, I never did like being relegated to the men's end of the table.  There's only so much talking about trucks and hunting that I can stand to listen to!  So I made a point of sitting with the women and engaging in their conversations. 

Interestingly, I realize that my native mode of speaking was more feminine to begin with.  In my 20s, I had to deliberately learn to speak over other people if I had something to say, because no one was going to willingly let me into a conversation.  My natural tendency was to wait for a pause in the conversation, and no one pauses willingly.  Now, I have to unlearn that habit, because women do not speak over each other.  Waiting for a pause in the conversation is a feminine trait.

  how to flirt or kiss or show feminine interest or smile and enjoy male interest
Can't help you there, I'm afraid.  I am happily married, and, given the support that my wife has shown me, I intend to stay that way.  I don't intend to fix what ain't broken.  Good luck!

[Dena]

Walking is relatively easy to understand. Men walk straddling a line. Women walk heel to toe as if they are walking on a line. This simple different changes the way a person moves.

[judithlynn]

xxxyy

[ChristiVee]

Tonya, you have some really good responses here, but thought I would add some to them.

For makeup, I still haven't learned, because I'm slow to learn new things. However, once learned, I'm an expert. There are plenty of YouTube videos, which my wife recommended me. To get the absolute basics down however, like what certain things are for, I'd say find an open-minded friend to help.

Wigs, for some people, may make you get clocked more. I wear wigs for conic conventions, but it's obvious they're wigs to people. Google is your best friend on this. There are so many hair types, there's not a simple answer. For styles, look up face shapes and hair styles, to find what fits what.

For clothes, I actually partially had GID because I already had my own fashion sense, but it was female. Googling what your body type is, and then searching clothing styles FOR the body type, is probably going to get you further than anyone but a personal tutor would. There are sooo many variables, such as short torso and long arms that would have their own style, but those clothes would clash with each other.

I've yet to try too many out, but sites like joyofclothes.com have previews of how clothes will look on your general figure. I used one that lets you input your specific measurements, but can't remember it right now. Thing is, many of these say what works for or with what. Like, a person with some types may be recommended a skirt, and that skirt might be recommended with a pinstripe top.... but pinstripes might not look good on a taller lady.

Undergarments can make a bigger difference than you think. Victoria's Secret's employees often know the best styles and cuts. Not only does the proper type and fit help clothes look better on you (helping you "pass"), but the wrong types of cups may actually be bad for your breasts, and/or not support you properly, hurting your back.

For walking, the advice of walking on a line is a great place to start... then follow the other advice. Google videos and instructions on poise and how to be more elegant. The same rules here often apply to eating, and you'll probably run into those videos from YouTube's recommendations!

That should help you know what to look for, when you're watching other women, to mimic.

For male responses, fall back to elegance. For holding a door, it depends on what type of lady you want to be. A girl stopping and waiting for someone to approach the door, is odd in our society, but your call to do. Thing is, you can still wait a second to hold the door for the next person, if you want to be seen as polite and not a snob.

For conversing, elegance videos again (see a pattern?). Also, again with what kind of lady you want to be. Some studies say girls are less outspoken in groups, and that if they give their opinion over everything (like a man), they're seen as too pushy/assertive. Not saying it's true, just that it does seem to be a standard belief in etiquette.

For flirting.... guess what? You got it.... search.
There are different personality types, some being more introverted. You need to find methods of flirting that doesn't seem too different than your demeanor. Run through examples you find in your head, and see if they feel like they're the style you like, or would attract the type of person you'd want.

Good luck!

[josie76]

I think a lot has to do with what you are simply comfortable doing. Although unlearning male emulation patterns has been really hard for me to do. Around guys I revert to my guy mode but at home I act very differently, just ask my wife.

Watching videos and people can give you clues about what you want to change about yourself. For me I have always seemed to watch how freely women express themselves. Really I was envious of the freedom it seemed they had. I guess I studied female behavior all these years so if I can just get comfortable in my environment I fall into feminine mannerisms. My wife used to think I was staring at women for sexual reasons while in my head I was just wishing I could be like them.

Walking: typical male pelvis has the hip socket at the sides. This allows the femur to swing straight forward and back so guys straddle the path they are walking. Typical female pelvis has the hip socket angled forward some as part of the effect estrogen has before the bones fuse. So a woman's leg swings inward as it goes forward. This requires movement of the whole pelvis to walk so the female hip swing. So to emulate this do two things. First make certain you point your feet straight when you walk. A lot of men walk toed out and slightly bow legged. Then teach yourself to place your feet on near the same line. As you do this you should be able to learn a natural hip sway. Also slow down. It's not a race. Small consistent steps instead of long lunges.

Posture: women naturally have a greater angle at the base of the spine. This is because of how the sacrum and pelvis is connected. Practice standing straight, shoulder back and down, butt back as much as is comfortable. This will position you pelvic tilt a bit different. Ideally you want to get your pelvic crest front edge equal to you pubic bone. Women go from a neutral angle to an anterior one where the pelvic crest is further forward than the pubic bone is. Try for neutral angle. It's typically better posture anyway. Many men tend to be toward the opposite end where their pubic bone is forward compared to the front pelvic crest.

Waiting for a pause in conversation always has been and is still a habit of mine. I often yield to any other person speaking in a group. Doesn't work well with men but women tend to give each other a chance to talk and join in. I personally separated myself from girls when I was younger as part of my manly act so socially I feel very awkward at least until I can actually join in. Then it just feels so validating to be in the conversation.
I had to sit through hunting, trucks, and deer pictures the other day while at work. Pretending to be even half interested is getting harder to do the more I have accepted myself. Then there was this older loudmouth at the other end of the building with his vulgar talk. I swear I just don't get guys.

Flirting, ehh can't really help you there. I'm not sure exactly how to flirt. It either flows naturally in the situation or it doesn't.

How to dress age appropriate, we'll go back to seeing what women your age dress like and find what styles you like. If your 30-40 don't try to dress like the teenyboppers.

[Artesia]

I have been observing people walk, both male and female, for a while.  The heel to toe for women is not necessarily true, though it is common.  There are so many ways that people walk, that you couldn't describe it in an encyclopedia with only this subject.  I've seen wide steps on women, and narrow on men, hip shakes form both, upright shoulder sways with no hunching for men, and droopy on women.  The personality of the person in question has a lot to do with the stride, angles of the upper body, and such.

Examples from my place of employment where much of my watching occurs:

The shy girl takes very narrow, shallow steps almost stepping on her own feet, she keeps her head down and shoulders scrunched close and forward like she is trying to squeeze into a tight space.  She reminds me of the Mulan Movie Brides in the line early on.

The Demanding Girl takes very wide and broad steps, taking every inch of her smaller stature as her space, making herself look bigger.  She almost stomps with each step.

The Casual guy, keeps his shoulders back, and takes long steps, but keeps his stride within a line never crossing but never going wider than the width of his foot.  Almost like someone in a dream lazily walking the beach.

The High strung girl keeps her pace short and rapid, not closer than the width of her foot, but not further than the width of her leg.  she keeps her shoulders back, but her head down, as if watching to see if she is going to step on something.  Her motion is almost like a hop or skip.

The Girly girl....Aside from a longer stride, matches the description of breasts out shoulders back feet in a line, but she has long legs, so a 2' extension is probably a speed she uses when trying to move fast, which she usually is, maybe when she isn't stressed her stride is smaller.  She is also one of the few I have come out to, and has been helping with jewelry for me, bless her heart.

The Gay male is like watching a dance, he kicks his feet toes pointed up with each step, but waddles like a duck while moving.  Very wide steps but not a lot of forwards movement.

[judithlynn]

Hi Tanya;
Have a look at:
Passing Glances
A primer on passing and successful transition for the early-stage transwoman
By Melinda Green - © 2009-2012
JudithLynn

[Sarah7]

Context: I'm 32, I transitioned at 27. I'm stealth and never read as trans.

makeup skills (I think that can help pass or un-pass you the most) How'd you got about learning those for your age?

It isn't something I pay a ton of attention to personally except for special evenings out when I want to look catastrophically attractive. I went the "get someone you trust to paint your face [my sis] and figure out what they did route." Getting one of those kits with a zillion colours in it is fun to play with.

Skincare is also really important for your face - moisturizer, UV protection, skin cleanser. Especially if you are going to be using a lot of makeup.

hair skills (especially if you had almost no hair maintenance before)

It takes a bit of trial and error, honestly. I got a recommendation for a hair cutter person who was supposed to be really good, and then let him do what he wanted. And then fought him for two years over what I wanted my hair to look like. Not the most productive I guess? But finding a good hairdresser and using them as a baseline is probably still good advice. They can also help with hair care (shampoo, conditioner) recommendations as well.

learning how to purchase clothes for your age, body type, or special events or normal work

Oh god. Practice. Go to really cheap stores like thrift or remainder stores so that the practice doesn't hurt your wallet too viciously. Try on 20 things for each one you buy. Bring someone whose opinion you trust to be your spotter and pay them in icecream. Focus on day-to-day clothing first. And pay attention. Learn what colours work for you, learn how to conceal your flaws and highlight your assets, learn what you are comfortable wearing and what feels awkward. It took me three years to settle on a style, and I'm still adjusting it and probably always will be.

undergarments ( bras, pantyhose, etc. )

Eh. Nobody sees them so do what you want. Might be a good idea to get your bra professionally fitted. I hate bras so I wear camis instead mostly.

walking sitting standing ( normally and with stuff like heels )

I have no idea how to walk with heels they look terrifying. The standard for "good" posture serves me pretty well. Keep your head up, spine straight, body relaxed, knees together, elbows in. Of course in the end, nobody is gonna decide you are trans/cis based on this, so it was more about my own comfort and projecting confidence, which is never a bad idea.

Of course nowadays I abuse some of this stuff horribly because I think it's funny--like sitting slumped back in a chair with my legs spread in a "typical guy" pose.

eating

If there is a gender division in eating, it remains a mystery to me.

general etiquette ( what a woman would never do in public vs man )

I found it kind of comes as you do the other stuff. Women don't touch their faces as much in public--because they wear makeup, for example. They tend to be more reserved and take up less space because they are given less space. Oh ya, get ready for the shock of having your personal space just flat out get up and leave on you. People will literally press up against you in public. Ugh.

But basically if you pay attention to the body language of the people around you, you just sort of learn it as you go.

learning how to give up normal male responses ( like door holding vs going through )

I'm afraid I rather like my chivalrous gestures and keep them regardless of any funny looks.

learning how to converse ( maybe more so in women group sense, but also with the men )

I talk how I talk. This verges too much into suppressing my own personality for my taste. But you do you.

Active listening and etiquette serve everyone's interests regardless of gender of course.

how to flirt or kiss or show feminine interest or smile and enjoy male interest ( like how to position oneself as the female and not the male )

Shudder. Sorry, I'm gay and the rules are totally different on this one.

I'm wondering how long you have to actually think things through before you become female.
Like I assume somewhat it seems like a mask or a game for a good while until the female in you becomes #1 and male disappears. Or at least I hope it lessens.
How did you overcome that hurdle of not having to think womanly but just do it?

I think for a lot of people it's more a feeling of letting a mask down. Feeling like you've spent all these years trying to fit in a certain way and then just... letting that go and being yourself, warts and all. That was pretty close to my experience anyway. But then I'm hardly the pinnacle of femininity. Doesn't bother me though. I just get to be me.

P.S. Practicing your voice is 10x more important than everything above combined.

[Asche]

As far as the "female walk" goes:

I recently got my first pair of pumps (slip-on shoes with a slight heel -- 1 1/2 inch in this case) and I suddenly discovered why many women walk the way they do: you have to walk that way if you're wearing heels.

I couldn't step heel-first the way you do in regular shoes, I had to land on the ball of my foot, and to do that, I had to thrust my whole leg forward, which made my pelvis twist in that stereotypically feminine way.

And, yes, I've spent quite a while looking at people on the street (42nd street from Grand Central to my office on Times Square is great for that), and most of the stereotypes about how women move vs. men only apply to some people.

Female voice:

I have been working on this one, but less because I want to "pass" than because I just hate sounding dominant male.  I want to sound and feel gentle, so I try to soften my voice.  Sometimes I manage, sometimes I don't.  But then, IMHO passing's a little overrated.  I just want to be me.

Generally:

The thing that's made the biggest difference for me has been simply taking an interest in feminine things in other women.  I asked my dentist about how she managed to get her nail polish looking so nice.  I've complimented women on their hair (rainbow colored hair is so awesome -- I wish I had enough hair to do that) or their jewelry.  I talked to one woman about where to get dresses that actually fit and she told me about the place I get all of mine now.  The simple fact that I'm trying to learn how to do stuff like make-up and clothes and hair and such well seems to create a woman-to-woman connection.  It is such a relief from my life-long loneliness.

[Artesia]

My first set of heels were a 6" sandal type.  They no longer fit, as either my foot shrank do to weight loss or HRT don't know which as it happened in the same time frame.  My wife was totally surprised that I can walk in them, never had a problem, just haven't attempted running, driving, or stairs yet; still only in the house do I dress.

I have always walked toes pointed forewords, and narrow steps, but not like on a tight rope, so maybe my natural stride has always been female.

My posture sucks, weight makes my back hurts so I lean forwards when sitting a lot to alleviate the pressure.

[PrincessCrystal]

Honestly?  I just try to act natural.  If there's something I feel the need to improve when I look at myself, I look it up, but I don't bother making lists of things I need to change.  I do what I do for me, not because other people need to be involved, so I focus on what makes me feel good.

[Ms Grace]

While I agree that we often miss out on the opportunity to bond, socialise and learn as girls/women growing up, and are conditioned with a lot of male stuff instead, it is not impossible to unlearn/relearn. I found it fairly easy overall, but I can't speak for others. The key for me was just to be authentic about myself. I didn't try to be anything or anyone that I wasn't.

  makeup skills (I think that can help pass or un-pass you the most) How'd you got about learning those for your age?
I go with the philosophy that less is more, just enough to show I'm wearing something but not so much that it seems overdone. I suggest Youtube for heaps of free tutorials. Remember, plenty of genetic cis women do not use make up, and there are many who do who that are terrible at it, it's not a secret rite of passage.

  hair skills (especially if you had almost no hair maintenance before)
Have someone style it for you and ask them for the best hair care regime, they're usually more than happy to help.

  learning how to purchase clothes for your age, body type, or special events or normal work
  undergarments ( bras, pantyhose, etc. )
Go for a stroll in a store (or look online), what appeals to you? What do you like the look of? Are there women you know that dress in a style you like or admire - that's how I went about it. I worked with a lot of women, some dressed great, others so-so...helped give me a sense of what I really liked. By and large it worked, I ended up with a wardrobe that is frequently complimented. There are some things I bought that really didn't work, but that happens to all women - trans and cis. I also bought low price (mostly Target), that way I didn't break the bank to acquire a reasonable sized wardrobe across four seasons, and for work and casual and active wear.

  walking sitting standing ( normally and with stuff like heels )
At 6'2" I don't have much time for heels. Watch how women walk and sit. There will be lots of variety depending on body type. What suits you?

  eating
Food goes in your mouth, same as before. But seriously, that is one thing I never intentionally changed - maybe just chew with your mouth closed.

  general etiquette ( what a woman would never do in public vs man )
  learning how to give up normal male responses ( like door holding vs going through )
  learning how to converse ( maybe more so in women group sense, but also with the men )
  how to flirt or kiss or show feminine interest or smile and enjoy male interest ( like how to position oneself as the female and not the male )

All this stuff comes in time. There is a wide spectrum of female behaviour from "dainty and refined" to "rude and coarse". You will find who you want to be through the process of transition. Imitate those you admire until you can polish it up, discard what doesn't work and build on what does.

[Angela Drakken]

I never really felt body language was a learned skill. I grew up having to 'practice' blending in. My father told me I 'walk like a (expletive)' and to 'knock that (expletive) off.' My mother told me crossing my legs like I do (comfortably and naturally to me) would 'ruin my hips, they're not meant to twist that way!' So I carefully observed what the big alpha males would do, and mimicked in kind. I'm a very extravagant 'hand talker', and I even had to practice 'toning it down' depending on who I was in the company of. (Especially at work.) I've always had a very narrow gait when I walk, heel to toe, but I'm pretty skinny, so I don't have that 'sway.' In all other aspects, I've always been a pretty big tom boy. Baggy clothes, cussing, I don't wear very much makeup, and my hair is what it is, right now, a wide mohawk that I've let grow super long and usually brush to one side. I hate high heels, and refuse to wear them and prefer flats or being barefoot literally at all hours at home or on the grass. We're all different. I agree with the sentiment; do what feels right and natural to you. (Unless it's a super formal setting, then some social etiquette and conventions may take place depending how old fashioned people are.) ALSO; yes, there are lots of biological women, who wear makeup and heels every day and just CAN'T do it, but they keep trying! So if that's what you like to do, keep trying to!