Now they think we stole the rainbow from them.

[Lady Lisandra]

Funny thing is I know Jesus was not born on the 25th, another funny thing is, everything you just said is stuff I already knew and not every Christian agrees with that either, just like who said all Christians agree with, rabbits and Easter bunnys, or that the only reason for Christmas is gifts. Now as far as the goat head, I have to disagree the baphomet is what made people not like the goat head and consider it satanic because it was also making satanic hand gestures. Even with the flood of course that happened in other places because ir was a worldwide flood and if anything what you stated about the ark, is just more proof that it happened.

So you recognize that the church has taken symbols from other religions and adapten them for their own benefit?

[AnneK]

I have to respectfully disagree on that. I believe in some science and I do believe that there are genuine scientist out here trying to figure out the cause of things but the bible teaches something different as far as rainbows go.

You can't just believe in some science. That claim shows you do not understand what science is about. It's about investigating evidence and drawing conclusion based on that evidence.  For example, if a scientist wants to investigate something they'll set up and fully document an experiment.  That documentation will include:
1) Purpose of the experiment
2) Full description of the experiment, including methods, materials and equipment.
3) Detailed observations
4) Conclusions based on the observations

Because the experiment is fully documented, someone else can examine the experiment and even run it again, to verify the results.  Because of this, science is self correcting.  Errors, even deliberate ones, will be uncovered sooner or later.

So, when someone says they don't believe in science, even some science, they're saying they don't believe in demonstratable evidence and fact.

Why is what I believe in nonsense?

One example already mentioned is Noah's flood.  History shows that story was borrowed from Babylon, a region that had annual floods.  Also, there is simply not enough water on the planet to create the flood as described.  It's physically impossible.

again this is a Christian forum, where we talk about Christian like things and if you can't handle that then leave this section

Perhaps you should be asking why religion is so fragile that it can't withstand a bit of scrutiny.

But all of our lives were still pre destined before we were actually born though so while God did come from out of no where he still created us, which is what I believe and that's different than what science tells us. Perhaps you should think.

This is another example of the nonsense.  If this "god" came out of nothing, then why is it so improbable that life managed to form on it's own?  Seems to me such a god is much more unlikely than life resulting from chemical reactions.  Incidentally, some of the basic building blocks of life, such as amino acids and proteins have been created in the lab, through chemical reaction.  That first happened back in the '50s.

Science requires evidence and proof.  Where are they for religion?

Incidentally, some things may always be beyond our understanding.  That does not imply "God" did it.  It just means we don't (yet) know enough.

[Deborah]

But all of our lives were still pre destined before we were actually born though so while God did come from out of no where he still created us, which is what I believe and that's different than what science tells us. Perhaps you should think.

Ex Nihilo doesn't have anything to do with God's origin.  It refers to the creation of the cosmos and contends that it was created from nothing.  That's what you said you don't believe in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AnneK]

Here's an example of what science can do:
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/08/06/a-whole-new-universe-1919-eclipse-confirmed-einsteins-theory-of-general-relatively.html

Einstein took established science of the day, based on Newton, and found some problems.  He investigated, including the experiment described in the article, and described how gravity interacted with the universe, including time.  Now, you may think that doesn't have much effect on is, but it's this understanding that makes the GPS system so accurate.  That provides a lot of benefit for humanity.

Another example would be how Edwin Hubble discovered the expanding universe, through observing red shift.  He was later challenged by Fred Hoyle, who advocated a steady state universe.  However, research since has shown Hubble to be correct.

Then there's Darwin, who challenged how life evolved on our planet.  The established belief was that god created everything on earth, exactly as it is and would always be.  Darwin demonstrated the basics of evolution, despite so much opposition that he was afraid to reveal his findings until late in his life.  Then in the 50s, research in England found DNA as the mechanism for evolution.

All these examples show how science establishes fact and advances knowledge.  Please show something in religious books that demonstrate something comparable.  Evidence will be required.

[Brandon]

So you recognize that the church has taken symbols from other religions and adapten them for their own benefit?

Yes and I never said I agreed with it, I am more of the person to where as I believe in God and love God but I don't get to involved with how some pastors or bishops do things. I enjoy having a personal relatrelationship with God.

[Brandon]

You can't just believe in some science. That claim shows you do not understand what science is about. It's about investigating evidence and drawing conclusion based on that evidence.  For example, if a scientist wants to investigate something they'll set up and fully document an experiment.  That documentation will include:
1) Purpose of the experiment
2) Full description of the experiment, including methods, materials and equipment.
3) Detailed observations
4) Conclusions based on the observations

Because the experiment is fully documented, someone else can examine the experiment and even run it again, to verify the results.  Because of this, science is self correcting.  Errors, even deliberate ones, will be uncovered sooner or later.

So, when someone says they don't believe in science, even some science, they're saying they don't believe in demonstratable evidence and fact.

One example already mentioned is Noah's flood.  History shows that story was borrowed from Babylon, a region that had annual floods.  Also, there is simply not enough water on the planet to create the flood as described.  It's physically impossible.

Perhaps you should be asking why religion is so fragile that it can't withstand a bit of scrutiny.

This is another example of the nonsense.  If this "god" came out of nothing, then why is it so improbable that life managed to form on it's own?  Seems to me such a god is much more unlikely than life resulting from chemical reactions.  Incidentally, some of the basic building blocks of life, such as amino acids and proteins have been created in the lab, through chemical reaction.  That first happened back in the '50s.

Science requires evidence and proof.  Where are they for religion?

Incidentally, some things may always be beyond our understanding.  That does not imply "God" did it.  It just means we don't (yet) know enough.

I can believe it what ever I want to believe in, just like you choose not to believe in God, so again I do believe in some science and Imma leave it at that. Just because you don't believe in God does not make my beliefs nonsense you have no idea what I have been through and why I have so much faith in God, now I am trying to be respectful but you are making that hard, you ain't gotta believe in God, cool ,good for you but don't disrespect my beliefs, do that the atheist section. Now as far as the flood goes, with God all things are possible and the population was small at the time so a flood was very much possible lol and the reason you. About the flood in different regions is because it did happen lmaoo, that again proves that it happened because other regions are saying it. Everything that God has done for me is more than enough proof for me that he exist, you say where's the proof have some faith, thats what its . I can go on and on about why I know God exist but its not gonna change your closeminded view. It's not religion that can't take scrutiny its part of the lgbt community, you can't take someone disagreeing with you, when in reality no one has to like how you live your life.

[Brandon]

Here's an example of what science can do:
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/08/06/a-whole-new-universe-1919-eclipse-confirmed-einsteins-theory-of-general-relatively.html

Einstein took established science of the day, based on Newton, and found some problems.  He investigated, including the experiment described in the article, and described how gravity interacted with the universe, including time.  Now, you may think that doesn't have much effect on is, but it's this understanding that makes the GPS system so accurate.  That provides a lot of benefit for humanity.

Another example would be how Edwin Hubble discovered the expanding universe, through observing red shift.  He was later challenged by Fred Hoyle, who advocated a steady state universe.  However, research since has shown Hubble to be correct.

Then there's Darwin, who challenged how life evolved on our planet.  The established belief was that god created everything on earth, exactly as it is and would always be.  Darwin demonstrated the basics of evolution, despite so much opposition that he was afraid to reveal his findings until late in his life.  Then in the 50s, research in England found DNA as the mechanism for evolution.

All these examples show how science establishes fact and advances knowledge.  Please show something in religious books that demonstrate something comparable.  Evidence will be required.

And just because you read it in a science book doesn't make it true but that is another story that I won't even speak on. Again believing in God takes faith again, I have seen what God can do, maybe seek him and he will show you, I did, I use to question my beliefs all the time as a teen but I asked him to show me he is real and he did just that. My question to you is, why are you in this section if you don't believe in God? Nothing I can say will make you believe and honestly I don't have the time and patience.

[HoneyStrums]

I believe in science and In god(a god/gods and any and/or ess prefixes).

do i Belive in the law of god (the covenant i made with god) Yes i do, my faith and that covenant would not exsist if i didnt.

Do i belive in the law of the land? yes i do, science amongst other things is one of those laws.

If their is a conflict between the law of the land, a law we are bound to follow, and the law of god then that is due to humanities imperfection and a miss-understanding in the law of god. (Sorry if anyone is offended by that)

I just get iritated with argument concerning science and religion.

[AnneK]

And just because you read it in a science book doesn't make it true but that is another story that I won't even speak on. Again believing in God takes faith again, I have seen what God can do, maybe seek him and he will show you, I did, I use to question my beliefs all the time as a teen but I asked him to show me he is real and he did just that. My question to you is, why are you in this section if you don't believe in God? Nothing I can say will make you believe and honestly I don't have the time and patience.

As I mentioned, science is self correcting.  If there's an error somewhere, it will be corrected sooner or later.  Same can't be said about religion, even though we have centuries of proof that things that were claimed were indeed false.  Let me ask you, why do you believe in something for which there is not only no proof, but plenty that contradicts it?  Provide some evidence of something that could only have been done by some god, with no other possible explanation.  If religion is real, then you shouldn't have much problem coming up with verifiable examples.  Again, evidence is required.

[Brandon]

As I mentioned, science is self correcting.  If there's an error somewhere, it will be corrected sooner or later.  Same can't be said about religion, even though we have centuries of proof that things that were claimed were indeed false.  Let me ask you, why do you believe in something for which there is not only no proof, but plenty that contradicts it?  Provide some evidence of something that could only have been done by some god, with no other possible explanation.  If religion is real, then you shouldn't have much problem coming up with verifiable examples.  Again, evidence is required.

Okay like the fact that not to long ago my check didn't come so I had no money for food, it wasn't be here for another week because I get paid biweekly, now I am a party host and gameroom attendant where I work, I was taken off parties for a while and my manager wanted to test me again, well the night before I prayed to God and said you know I gotta get food and I have nothing and I know you will make a way out of no way, next day both of my parties have me a 20 dollar tip, I came home with 40 dollars. So I know my God is real, or for an example for the longest I had no job, has no idea how I was gonna pay for hrt, buy a car, again I prayed to God and I cried because I really needed the job and I hadn't been called back, I thought oh they don't want me, well that next morning I called, they said oh we have you down for a second interview and I got the job and been there for almost a year today. The fact God wiped away all my suicidal tboughts, I use to contemplate suicide daily, I got marks all on my arm but through prayer,  here I am today by the Grace of God doing better like I never dreamed of. My eyes use to be  lazy as hell at 5 years old, they were trying to do laser eye surgery but she felt I was way to young for that, so my mom prayed and prayed and today if you looked at me, you would not be able to tell, I had a lazy eye and I know I didn't have surgery because I remember all my eye doctor appointments as a child. The fact that I can go to church and they could be talking about that very thing I am going though, or just asking God for answers, like I did recently and he gave me one, right then and there, or what bout the fact I should be dead because I hot a damn artery in my head but by the Grace of God I am still here, it goes on and on and on but no matter what I tell you, you still won't believe and I'll state it again, you don't know my story and what I been through so do not question my beliefs.

[Brandon]

And AnneK, you really think l science is correct? You are in for a rude awakening because we been lied to all of our life's but that's for another time and for another story cuz see I am also a conspiracy theorist but this is not what this is about.

[AnneK]

Okay like the fact that not to long ago my check didn't come so I had no money for food, it wasn't be here for another week because I get paid biweekly, now I am a party host and gameroom attendant where I work, I was taken off parties for a while and my manager wanted to test me again, well the night before I prayed to God and said you know I gotta get food and I have nothing and I know you will make a way out of no way, next day both of my parties have me a 20 dollar tip, I came home with 40 dollars. So I know my God is real, or for an example for the longest I had no job, has no idea how I was gonna pay for hrt, buy a car, again I prayed to God and I cried because I really needed the job and I hadn't been called back, I thought oh they don't want me, well that next morning I called, they said oh we have you down for a second interview and I got the job and been there for almost a year today. The fact God wiped away all my suicidal tboughts, I use to contemplate suicide daily, I got marks all on my arm but through prayer,  here I am today by the Grace of God doing better like I never dreamed of. My eyes use to be  lazy as hell at 5 years old, they were trying to do laser eye surgery but she felt I was way to young for that, so my mom prayed and prayed and today if you looked at me, you would not be able to tell, I had a lazy eye and I know I didn't have surgery because I remember all my eye doctor appointments as a child. The fact that I can go to church and they could be talking about that very thing I am going though, or just asking God for answers, like I did recently and he gave me one, right then and there, or what bout the fact I should be dead because I hot a damn artery in my head but by the Grace of God I am still here, it goes on and on and on but no matter what I tell you, you still won't believe and I'll state it again, you don't know my story and what I been through so do not question my beliefs.

And how do you know that those things wouldn't have happened if you hadn't prayed?  You don't.  You just make a claim, without evidence to support it.

As for being lied to all our lives, well religion has been a major factor in that regard.  Any yes, I know science is correct, because it is based on evidence & fact, not unsubstantiated claims.  For example, take a look at medicine.  It was science and nothing but, that allows the various treatments, cures, etc., that simply weren't available not that many years ago.  They didn't just happen, because someone prayed.  It took research and hard work to advance medicine over the years.

[Brandon]

And how do you know that those things wouldn't have happened if you hadn't prayed?  You don't.  You just make a claim, without evidence to support it.

As for being lied to all our lives, well religion has been a major factor in that regard.  Any yes, I know science is correct, because it is based on evidence & fact, not unsubstantiated claims.  For example, take a look at medicine.  It was science and nothing but, that allows the various treatments, cures, etc., that simply weren't available not that many years ago.  They didn't just happen, because someone prayed.  It took research and hard work to advance medicine over the years.

The evidence is called having faith which you still seem to miss lol, you want evidence then seek him and no none of that would have happened had I not prayed, again you don't know my story, nor what I been through, you don't and you are kind of being disrespectful right now. Again you want evidence seek him for yourself. Not all science is correct lol, you keep thinking that though. Btw prayer does work and it changes things.

[rmaddy]

If their is a conflict between the law of the land, a law we are bound to follow, and the law of god then that is due to humanities imperfection and a miss-understanding in the law of god. (Sorry if anyone is offended by that)

I'm not offended by it.  It just frightens me.  The historical litany of psychopaths who have cited the law of God to justify their atrocities is seemingly endless.  Appealing to a higher power is the cheapest way to end a discussion.

[Raell]

LOL!
People are indoctrinated into their parents' religions and beliefs from birth. Usually, nothing you say or do will make a difference, as they will only feel "attacked."

Sometimes, when people grow up, they come to their own, different conclusions, usually after a crisis that opens their eyes, such as having a near death experience, taking psychedelic mushrooms or drugs that exposes them to their subconscious sides, or even from traveling abroad and being exposed to alternate beliefs.

If you don't believe me, try telling a Trump follower why transgender people should have legal protections, using science and logic. Waste of time.

But studies show that people stay in denial to protect themselves from uncomfortable ideas.

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/true-believers/201603/5-reasons-why-people-stick-their-beliefs-no-matter-what

[Brandon]

I'm not offended by it.  It just frightens me.  The historical litany of psychopaths who have cited the law of God to justify their atrocities is seemingly endless.  Appealing to a higher power is the cheapest way to end a discussion.

So we are psychopaths now?

[Brandon]

LOL!
People are indoctrinated into their parents' religions and beliefs from birth. Usually, nothing you say or do will make a difference, as they will only feel "attacked."

Sometimes, when people grow up, they come to their own, different conclusions, usually after a crisis that opens their eyes, such as having a near death experience, taking psychedelic mushrooms or drugs that exposes them to their subconscious sides, or even from traveling abroad and being exposed to alternate beliefs.

If you don't believe me, try telling a Trump follower why transgender people should have legal protections, using science and logic. Waste of time.

But studies show that people stay in denial to protect themselves from uncomfortable ideas.

5 Reasons Why People Stick to Their Beliefs, No Matter What | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/true-believers/201603/5-reasons-why-people-stick-their-beliefs-no-matter-what

My mom never forced religion on me or my sister, I went to church from and child till now which I still do but my mom didn't really explain all that to me because she knew I wouldn't understand it. I didn't start fully believing in God until I was 18, when I seen him do things for me and seeked him for myself. Trump isn't a real Christian, ge preaches hate. That's not of God and I highly doubt he will make it in to the kingdom of heaven.

[Dayta]

So we are psychopaths now?

I don't believe Maddy was calling you a psychopath, but rather suggesting that psychopaths might make the same sorts of claims, and therefore could be less easy to distinguish.  There is a social contract that we have all accepted either explicitly or not, that mathematics and science are believed to be true.  If we all did not accept this, there would be no way to police financial transactions, no way to determine the value of things, etc...  So, we all have to accept the basic tenets of math and science, and then all of the higher-level research and study builds upon this.  If we allowed people to believe only those things that they wanted to believe, one could go ahead and punch someone in the face, not accepting the physics of that action.  A medical technician could modify the results of someone's blood test, since they "believed" that the results weren't correct. 

We do have room for disagreement in what action ought to be taken on the basis of the projections, for example.  One might be skeptical of the assumptions in a study, and that criticism ought to encourage researchers to improve their work.  But the thinking that we can just "opt out" of science is flawed, and with that as a standard, we could not realistically sustain a society. 

Regarding the "proof" of God, I believe that it's totally possible that one day God may be proven.  On the other hand, we can never ever absolutely disprove the existence of God.  That's just how science works.  It's why I tend to think that to deny the existence of God is itself an act of faith.  But that's a topic for another day, I think. 

Hugs,

Erin

[VeronicaLynn]

I used to really like rainbows as a kid and was clueless that it was a gay symbol. So were my parents, actually. I had a lot of issues because of this, though didn't realize until quite a bit later.

That said, rainbows are for everyone. They can't be owned by anyone, thus cannot be stolen.

Religion, however, can be stolen by those who want to put a political or personal hateful message to it. I'm agnostic, and not sure if there really was a Jesus, though the Jesus in the Bible seemed like a really cool guy that healed people and was kind to others. Most Preachers and Priests, on the other hand, seem nothing like him...

[Brandon]

I used to really like rainbows as a kid and was clueless that it was a gay symbol. So were my parents, actually. I had a lot of issues because of this, though didn't realize until quite a bit later.

That said, rainbows are for everyone. They can't be owned by anyone, thus cannot be stolen.

Religion, however, can be stolen by those who want to put a political or personal hateful message to it. I'm agnostic, and not sure if there really was a Jesus, though the Jesus in the Bible seemed like a really cool guy that healed people and was kind to others. Most Preachers and Priests, on the other hand, seem nothing like him...

That's because those are false prophets, not every pastor or bishop or priest is preaching the right thing.