Thinking outside the conventional FFS Box

[Abbiem]

I have been with other men too so let me tell you that changing looks for love is rubbish, i like men strength yes, men personality more than women crying lol, i like how men think, they are more hmm tough . i like toughness in life, but like i said i respect trans ppl that's why im here, do you understand, iam very pro surgery and i do not tell ppl not to do it.
Changing looks to be the perfect face body, will not gurantee love,
but for career yes, you think different from me.
I do not intend to chase over people for love at all.
The career i want to seek requires this, no not modelling i think that is very no way, i will do this.
But see one who have talents, and i happen to be 155 cm, i want to be taller,
i do not have a masculine face, but i have flaws and i want to improve them. when i wear makeup. i like it alot, but why when i can do surgery then no need to wear makeup for ex.
The career iam seeking is not modelling nor this industry, it is something i cannot discuss here, and it requires this.
iam not interested like i told you to chase ppl or love.
By the way, for a trans i know u r very insecure about looks, but i tell u if u do ffs surgery to find love, then it is not a gurantee u will get it.

[jentay1367]

Yes this is her before after pic, though she is still very swollen in her after pic. You can see her Instagram of her current pics without any swelling.

I agree with you on that she didn't seem to have any jaw dysfunction or aesthetic impairment and although she looks more feminine now I sometimes think she looked more attractive before atleast as per western beauty standards.

It's not confirmed but it looks like she did have cheekbone reduction and  eyelid surgery too

I literally see her as more beautiful in the before picture......... and no more feminine to be frank. This dysphoria is strange stuff. It would be interesting to see how she felt about her results.

[myfairlady49]

I literally see her as more beautiful in the before picture......... and no more feminine to be frank. This dysphoria is strange stuff. It would be interesting to see how she felt about her results.

Yes.   The surgery did her a disservice.  Much better in the before.

I think conscientious surgeons would have counseled her to not have those procedures.

[Ypsf09]

Well she is still very swollen in her after surgery pic posted by anjaq

I believe she had the conventional ffs done in US before going to Korea. You can see her face from different angles before her Korean  surgery in this youtube video:

"BRAVE NEW GIRLS EXTRA SCENES: After The Bar" on YouTube



In the above video(post US FFS but before korea) while she looks pretty and feminine, her face still isn't fully 100% clock proof( not saying that was her intention of getting the Korean  surgery ).

Below listed instagram clip shows her current face after the Korean procedures:

View this post on Instagram

It's quite clear that she has now achieved that fully passable face under all circumstances goal. A face that is actually so much beyond passable,  truely hyperfeminine and innocent looking. I think a lot of females would be willing to swap there's for hers now..lol

Now if she looked like Alena Shishkova( see link below)before the Korean surgery and still got jaw reduction, cheekbone reduction that would be a disservice. But in her own case, I think the Korean surgery was definitely a upgrade of her facial feminity and overall cuteness.

http://alchetron.com/Alena-Shishkova-414442-W

Personally everytime she posts a new video or pic on instagram, it makes me reconsider my decision of staying in US for my round 2 ffs.

[Abbiem]

I have posted about my experience in south korea,

There are other places in Asia like Thailand who is much better and the people are posting here. But, i think it is better to pay alot to get what you want.

Besides, assymetry in eyes and making the eyes longer that is in my case, i want my eyes bigger and longer for spacing symmetry, and my nose bone removed, eye crease highered.
Jaw reconstruction.

Now in south korea they made my eyes smaller, my jaw longer, maybe it is because they cannot speak the doctor english at all. But i tell u, i already was asked and told my experience, do you want the best, then dont go cheap, then do your research, because a surgeon who is good in eyes, might not be good in nose ect.

Besises in south korea, they are not ffs surgeons at all. They are advertising the small face all the time, and they are not specialised in ffs surgery.

[Ellement_of_Freedom]

Is there anyone on Susan's who has had any of these procedures (namely double jaw) done in Korea? Some more pics would be nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Abbiem]

i have done double surgery and it made my jaw longer, i have already advised against south korea, but go ahead and then, i dont want no one to tell me i have not warned.

[Miss Lux]

I agree with u Anjaq.... D only FFS I've done was d forehead and brow bone....everything else just tweak by regular plastic surgeon.... i actually even added chin implant not reduce it... I think it's all about facial feature harmony and each person's aesthetic vision..... I even think that some girls' facial balance was ruined by too aggressive jaw reduction... Just my opinion.....For me with surgery less is more...I still want to look natural... And I do despite my many magical tweaks hehehe.

[Abbiem]

I agree with u Anjaq.... D only FFS I've done was d forehead and brow bone....everything else just tweak by regular plastic surgeon.... i actually even added chin implant not reduce it... I think it's all about facial feature harmony and each person's aesthetic vision..... I even think that some girls' facial balance was ruined by too aggressive jaw reduction... Just my opinion.....For me with surgery less is more...I still want to look natural... And I do despite my many magical tweaks hehehe.

And where is the best surgeon for eyes, because i wear sunglasses and i want them now done.

[anjaq]

In the above video(post US FFS but before korea) while she looks pretty and feminine, her face still isn't fully 100% clock proof( not saying that was her intention of getting the Korean  surgery ).

Below listed instagram clip shows her current face after the Korean procedures:

It's quite clear that she has now achieved that fully passable face under all circumstances goal. A face that is actually so much beyond passable,  truely hyperfeminine and innocent looking. I think a lot of females would be willing to swap there's for hers now..lol

Yes, she looks quite differently. Mainly though I think in the instagram pictures she looks asian. In the other video she looks more "western". Of course, asian beauty standards are even more into hyperfemininity and innocence than western ones, so yes, if that is the goal maybe its an option. From the first video two things are apparent though. She is not a petite woman - she is quite a bit taller than the other woman in the video. And her voice is probably more something that gets her "clocked" in that video than her looks. I am not even sure if such a innocent manga-like face as in the instragram video will work together with those two features very well. Also something I noticed is that in the instragram she has a fringe and in the other video she actually has her hair pulled back - this in itself makes a huge difference. I know this because it does in me - if I pull it all back, I am most likely much more "clockable" than if I have my fringe in place...

Still, it is clear that her facial features after that korean surgery are more delicate and childlike, so it definitely did change the face in that direction - I think a big part of that is probably the cheekbone reduction, which makes the face look smaller but this is something that really is debateable regarding beauty standards. I think asians like that childlike innocence look, while Europeans like more a young adult woman look which shows some independence and strength, visually.

EDIT: I just reviewed the videos again. One thing I notice is that the biggeste difference visually is not so much the jaw or chin - it is the eyes - the eyes seem a lot larger in the second video, so I wonder how they did that. I am not sure from the clip, but I also think she uses iris-enlaging contact lenses ("manga contacts") in the second video?

[Abbiem]

No it is double eyelid surgery to create higher crease, there is another surgery to increase the length of eyes so the spacing and propotions of eyes is ideal, both together they cfreate bigger eyes with longer length.

[anjaq]

Interesting. Something else that is not regularl part of ffs - larger eyes appear more feminine after all, so it makes sense to have that changes a bit as well

[Abbiem]

Yes larger eyes and longer eyes too , for ideal propotion and spacing.

[Ypsf09]

Her eye looking bigger is from probably getting those korean eye surgeries combined with drastic reduction in lower and possibly mid face.
Checkout the link below on how eye can be enlarged. This can be very beneficial in achievable bigger feminine eyes but can also look very fake(https://bashny.net/t/en/9516)

http://m.eng.idhospital.com/main_surgerys/hottest

Regarding Jenna bangs that's true, however as seen in pic below she is still very cute, feminine and unclockable without them.

View this post on Instagram

Regarding asian vs western beauty standards, I personally like female faces that are strong, defined with prominent features but still very feminine as opposed to child like faces. But unfortunately that's really tough to achieve for most trans girls while retaining those defined features. Again  if there goal is to be as feminine as possible and not wanting to get clocked ever in the face.

Famous trans youtuber Sunny Bee had her vline surgery and cheekbone reduction done in Korea. The whole plastic surgery journey w is documented on her youtube channel.

[anjaq]

That eye surgery looks interesting, but I am not sure this would look good on everyone. It seems to look good on asian faces though. It would be interesting to add it to a FFS photo simulation.

However the commercial of that clinic you linked is faked, sadly, so not sure how much to give on that:

The "after" picture clearly was taken using iris enlargement contact lenses as the Iris is larger and this is something that is not part of any surgery. So who knows how much of the picture is real at all.

Regarding "Sunny Bee" - its a bit offtopic now but what did she do with her mouth before that video was taken? It kind of looks like she had a lip lift that was overdone, so her teeth are exposed a lot of the time? Or is this something she had before any surgeries?

[Ypsf09]

I am not sure what she did to her lips. I think she had Ffs done in Thailand before her korean surgeries. What did you think about her cheekbone reduction? Do you think it softened her apperance.

Also you can see in below video at 3:59 what she looked like in 2011 before any of the surgeries. I think she has come a long way.

[anjaq]

I still do not get this whole cheekbone thing at all. half the trans women get cheek implants or fillers to enhance cheeks and cheekbones, and others get cheekbone reduction  ... whats the point? Personal preferrence? I have high and prominent cheekbones and I like them. I saw this in a few actors I like as well - it makes their faces beautiful, I think. When I spoke to FFS surgeons some of them loved them or were fascinated by my cheekbones - telling me to stay away from changing anything there...
So I guess its more a matter of aesthetics. If one likes a more cute and child-like look, I guess its better to smoothen everything , reduce cheekbones, make the nose smaller and curved and increase the size of eyes and lips... I personally find it more attractive to not be childlike anymore. not at my age of 42. So I think I actually like straight noses and cheekbones - although I also think lips and eyes should not be too small or think to be attractive.

[2cherry]

I am not sure what she did to her lips. I think she had Ffs done in Thailand before her korean surgeries. What did you think about her cheekbone reduction? Do you think it softened her apperance.

Also you can see in below video at 3:59 what she looked like in 2011 before any of the surgeries. I think she has come a long way.

Fascinating. Thai people are beautiful, sweet and special people. Would love to see Thailand one day.

[nomadjoanne]

Ah, I see that this topic has somewhat died, but it's quite interesting, so I thought I should throw in my one or two cents worth. I am already booked for FFS here in Spain (FacialTeam), where I live. I was and am quite happy with my choice but, as I learn more, the more I am definitely considering this as only round 1. It will certainly help, but, like many women here, I really feel that that one élan masculin that really makes me see a man in the mirror, albeit a very femme man, is that damn mid- and lower face length. As a quite androgynous dyke who feels uncomfortable going out femme (it's just not me) this has bothered me quite a lot—most people still see me as male! I would love to see double jaw and even maxillary impaction surgeries become more common. It may take a few years to raise the capital, but I am quite decided already.

Doctors often do not wish to do these things based on the invasiveness of a procedure, at least here in the West. I do think that this is a shame, because, for the courageous and true women among us, who know full well and long in advance the risks—it seems like it could be a beautiful thing and very much improve our quality of life. Policewomen and men, soldiers and road workers risk their lives on a daily basis. If these are considered acceptable professions, then for bloody hell's sake, I think any brave woman is capable of saying, "Yes, please saw through my maxillary bone with a circular saw!" Are we cowards or warriors?

Clearly the latter. We wouldn't have transitioned otherwise.

P.S. For those worried about traveling abroad or using surgeons abroad, I can tell you as an American expat who has had (non-trans-related) surgery here that, assuming you're in a modern country with well-trained people, medical care can even be better than in the US. Medically, the US can be quite backwards and very overpriced for what is offered. Though proper research is of course a must.

Anyway, just me not very neutral opinion XD

[keojampamd]

I think this is the comparison picture for her?
I honestly do not exactly know why she had that surgery , she does not seem to have any jaw dysfunction or aesthetic impariment, but I guess she will see it differently


Did she have cheekbone reduction as well? It looks like it from the picture...

If you look closely at her videos prior surgery, she had an obvious overbite or medically referred to a Class II malocclusion or retrognathia.  This can cause chewing abnormalities and TMJ issues.   Double jaw surgeries are commonly performed in the USA to treat dental misalignment and can be used to make dramatic facial changes.  The Double jaw refers to a Le Fort I osteotomy (upper jaw); Bilateral sagittal split osteotomy (lower jaw) with or without a sliding genioplasty.   The Sliding genioplasty is most often performed just for cosmetic purposes and can be performed either to augment a chin or narrow the chin.