Yeson VFS After Age 50

[tgirlamg]

Hey All,... I recently received materials from Yeson to begin the process for scheduling VFS... They mention that results may be unsatisfactory after age 50... I assume they mean the pitch increase may not be as good but haven't received clarification back yet to some questions ... I speak very comfortably with an average pitch in the 170s Hz range so I wouldn't need a huge increase...

I was wondering if anyone here did VFS with them in their 50s or knows someone who did and what their results were?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!!!

Take Care,

Ashley

[Dena]

Me. I did it last year and while my doctor would only commit to about 60hz of improvement, I ended up with close to 80hz which is about the maximum that you can expect with just VFS. I am a never smoker and my body seems to age slower than normal. My tie was near 50% which is all the farther you can go without the voice sounding wrong but as my starting point was pretty low, I needed as much as I could get.

[tgirlamg]

Thank you so much Dena!!! I am encouraged!!! !!!!!! Are you happy with the quality of your voice as well as the pitch increase?

Hugs!
Ashley

[anjaq]

I believe the problem probably is not so much that the vocal folds would not be shortened and the base pitch not increased, but a key point in the voice change by Yeson is that the voice has to adapt to the new vocal folds and one has to re-learn the voice to a degree in order to have a good and more feminine voice. The voice usually is still capapble of doing the same as pre -OP, almost. One has to utilize it differently to gain the benefit. Having spoken differently for a long time - either in a male voice when transitioning late - or in a feminized trained voice when tranistioning earlier but getting VFS later - both makes it harder to get to the benefit of the VFS - I think from this, a lot of the frustration I read about voice surgery comes - people expect to just do the same and have a totally feminine voice - and if this does not happen but they realize that their voice is broken if they use it the old way, they curse VFS for breaking their voice or they realize that now they have to re-learn how to speak, which is also something they can curse about because the expectation was to avoid lengthy voice training and just get a quick fix.
So I think the age difference can be attributed at least to a degree to having the old voice patterns deeper ingrained into the brain while a younger person is more flexible.

[Inarasarah]

Ashley,

I am heading to Yeson in February and while I am not exactly over fifty, I am as close to it as one can get--I am 49.  While I received the same "warning" from Yeson, I have faith that my past vocal training and how far I have already come with my voice can help me through the recovery.

Plus all of the posts I have read from the people on this forum has been encouraging.

Best wishes for us both. 
-Sarah

[tgirlamg]

Many thanks to you both for the replies!...

Anjaq, I saw your before/after video and your results are beautiful!!!... Can I ask how long post-op the "after" video was made?

Sarah!... I will be sending good thoughts for you and looking forward to hearing about your experience at Yeson!

I hope to book my appointment for April or May...

Onward we go....

Ashley

[anjaq]

The video was made over a year after the surgery. The pre OP voice is not my regular voice I used , of course - I did have a feminized voice with training. It took me a long time to get the hang of how to use my voice and I still sometimes drop out of it or misuse my voice, using too low pitches or forcing the pitch up or squeezing my voice or use vocal fry - but its getting there and things have improved mostly to about 15 months post OP, after that I keep having small advances or setbacks depending on 1000 things like weather, mood,... lol - but overall I am happy -  I am just a bit tough to get this because I used a wrongly feminized voice for almost 2 decades and because I generally have a hard time to relax and let go. I almost wold guess that Yoga and meditation may be really helpful with the voice after the surgery - letting go of old voice patterns and habits. I should try that.

[Inarasarah]

Best wishes to you too Ashley, I will post my results and thoughts as I move through recovery.

As I have told my friends, miracles can happen if you believe.  Of course it also means a lot of work too

-Sarah

[EmmaD]

Hi Ashley,

I am 54 and I'm booked with Yeson in mid-February about a week after Sarah.  I met with Dr Kim just over a week ago when he was in Melbourne (also met and had a long chat with Jessie - what lovely people!).  Age wasn't mentioned but he did strongly emphasise the need to re-train post op.  He recommended my training focus between now and when I visit Yeson should be around bringing the voice to the front of the face (for want of a better description).  A lot of tapping the sides of my nose as I hold a note - a new exercise for me!  He will take care of pitch but it is up to me to change how I use my voice.  I too believe the age factor is more about the re-training but might also have something to do with just the ageing of the tissue involved.  Of course, everyone is different and 50 is an arbitrary number.   

I speak comfortably at around 160hz but my natural pitch is closer to 130hz.  Dr Kim thought 200hz would be achievable.  He also promised Botox as well as he identified some breaks.  There was nothing in what he analysed from recording me that suggested the surgery wasn't worth doing though.  He mentioned that some male voices are so low that surgery is unlikely to produce satisfactory results.  While I booked about 6 weeks before seeing Dr Kim, due to the age warning, being able to meet him before travelling to Seoul was very reassuring.

So now I practice and wait.

Love Emma

[Inarasarah]

Emma,

I think our pitches are about the same, although I am sure you have that lovely Australian accent

-Sarah

[anjaq]

Oh I am glad that he now tells people who consider the surgery more clearly that it will need quite some re-training. I think some of his patients were a bit disappointed as they did not expect to still have to work so hard to really get that new voice after the surgery.

[Inarasarah]

I don't think anything that is worth doing is ever truly easy.  Transition was the same, it was a long hard fought road to becoming me, so why should it be different with the voice.  I am expecting to work my butt off to re-train my voice.  And with luck I will be able to sing too. 

[EmmaD]

Emma,

I think our pitches are about the same, although I am sure you have that lovely Australian accent

-Sarah

Sorry, not much of an Aussie accent! Perhaps a slight kiwi accent since I moved to Australia in 2000!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[tgirlamg]

Emma,

I think our pitches are about the same, although I am sure you have that lovely Australian accent

-Sarah

Sounds like we are all in the same ranges with our old voices and current voices...

Thank you all so much ... All of your responses were more helpful to me than you know!!! May the coming year bring the best to us all... Onward we go brave sisters!!!

Hugs!!!

Ashley

[Inarasarah]

I am so ready.  When Jessie got back to me, she asked if I wanted to do the VFS in January, and I almost jumped at it.  But my bestie, and fellow league mate convinced me to play one last roller derby bout before.  So on January 30th, I will be skating in LA on a team against the LA Derby Dolls Ri-Ettes, arguably the best banked track team there is. Not a bad way to jump into my first long term derby break.  I just hope they don't kill me too much, since I fly to Seoul one week later 

Every day since I confirmed my surgery date has brought me such joy and hope.  I am just so happy right now.  I am also very glad to (virtually) know a few others going through this at the same time. That brings me comfort.

[anjaq]

My pitch originally was 130 Hz - my everyday voice was more like 160 Hz though - but sometimes I dropped. Now its usually around 180 Hz, sometimes 170 - if I am in a good mood it almost goes to 200. That is an increase of officially about 40 Hz I guess, but I am not sure. I know that pre OP I never managed to really release my voice anymore to pre transition levels. I suspect it may actually have been 110 Hz instead. So that would make the change more like the 60-70 Hz that is assumed for this surgery. On the other hand, I can still use a 130 Hz voice if I really want to now, but it sounds a bit fake and broken.
I think the surgery mostly switches the sweet spot where our voices are willing to behave properly and sound good and comfortable. Involuntary sounds are higher, relaxed humming is higher - the base pitch is higher - and the low pitches are sounding more broken and false, so part of the process for me was to actually intentionally use higher pitches because I consciously knew they work better while my subconscious tried to pull the pitch down out of the old fear of overstraining my voice, which I did a lot pre OP just by using a pitch above 160 Hz, which now is the norm for me. So my brain has to relearn that now "relaxed" is where previously "strained" was... Tell that to the brain - I think it would have believed me much more easily if I was still 15 years younger

[KimSails]

I had surgery two weeks ago with Dr. Haben, at age 50, well, nearly 51.  He mentions age as an issue in his online materials, but I don't recall him mentioning it in my pre-op consultation.  He said that I was starting with a base around E3, and that he did about a 40% reduction. 

At two weeks it is way to early to know the results, though.  I am still on voice rest for another 16 days before I can even start the *real* recovery.  I suppose the fact that he chose to put me on 30 days voice rest (instead of something shorter) might be due to my age, but he didn't specifically mention that.