Should I leave my wife and start over?

[Cailan Jerika]

My partner and I tried to make it work. She was very supportive, a real angel. And then there came the days when I realized that I no longer shared the same long-term goals that she had. Like having a baby, for example, because I couldn't bear the gender implications, and she refused to consider that if we adopted that I could be a stay-at-home mom, for that was always her dream. So I became uncomfortable with how the gendered patterns of our previous life still managed to persist.

And then came the day that I let a boy kiss me -- it was a stolen kiss, but I didn't object, in fact I really really liked it and I definitely wanted more.  I told my partner immediately.  This was her last straw, and she insisted I leave.  I moved out within 48 hours.

One thing I've never quite understood is why a trans person expects their CIS spouse to abandon their own traditional gender role, which the CIS spouse is very comfortable and natural, and there is no reason for an interest in doing anything else. Why should SHE abandon HER gender role? It's like you asked her to transition just a bit to male so that YOU can have the female role and be the primary female in the household. Why would any CIS woman want to do that? Could they do it? It would be no more natural or comfortable to her as it was to you trying to live as a male.

I've run into this in my own relationship. My husband has been dropping some of his "male act" and seems to expect me to take on more of the masculine role in our relationship, especially considering I do have a male side. It is neither comfortable or natural for me to take on a role other than feminine in many contexts (though in other contexts it's natural) and it becomes awkward when both partners want to be "the girl" in the relationship, or in sex. Like a dance in which both partners are trying to lead, or in this case, neither partner wants to be the lead.

Also, I suspect that much of the "last straw" wasn't so much that you kissed a man and liked it, but because you kissed SOMEONE ELSE and liked it. You cheated on her, even if it was "just a kiss."

[ainsley]

Well, I think many mtf that transition want quite badly to be treated and be in the role of the feminine side and that leads to this 'expectation' from their remaining spouse.  I am not so sure it is wrong or right to have this expectation, but just merely natural to want that --and to ask your soul mate/bestfriend/spouse to help fulfill that.

My wife and I have had this discussion.  She does not want to abandon her previous role.  I get that.  I will still fix the tractor, repair the furnace, replace the sewage pump, hunt for deer, grade the driveway, bury the dead animals my dogs bring to the house, etc.  But, yea, I might also ask her to treat me like a lady, too.   Or, I might, ...just hear me out..., ask her to fix the tractor, or bury the opossum, or mess in the poop water to fix the sewage pump for the septic tank.    I do her feminine things, too.  My point is, we are equal.  The roles are shared.  Yep, I asked her to transition with me.  She agreed.  I think it HAS to happen for it to be fulfilling for you both.

It seems like you are not seeing your spouse as female, since you refer to "his "male act"".

[Cailan Jerika]

I do not and will never see my husband as a woman. This we both know, and we have an agreement that he will always be he/him/husband/male to me. Just as, even after I am post-HRT, post meta, I will always be she/her/wife to him.

I know it's not the way it works for most trans folk, but it works for us.

[ainsley]

Fair enough. 

I take it that if that is how it works for you two, then that may be why you "never quite understood ... why a trans person expects their CIS spouse to abandon their own traditional gender role"?  I think we are all different, have different relationships, and see gender roles differently, and some, even, do not see gender roles at all, but a fluidity.

I see a bit of a contradiction for your hubby to be male-to-female, yet retain male pronouns and roles to you.  Does not compute.   Similarly for your transition and pronoun/role.  However, that is my opinion, and well, we all know what others' opinions are to us that are trans*, right? 

[Cailan Jerika]

I see a bit of a contradiction for your hubby to be male-to-female, yet retain male pronouns and roles to you. Does not compute.   Similarly for your transition and pronoun/role.  However, that is my opinion, and well, we all know what others' opinions are to us that are trans*, right?

I don't know another way to describe his transition except MtF. He may grow boobs and show female behavior traits, but all I will ever see is the man I love. A somewhat effeminate man with boobs, maybe. But still a man to me.

I'm bi-gender, not FtM. I intend to transition my sex organs to match my mind to relieve some physical dysphoria, but not my social presentation. I will still dress and present as a female, but with a penis. I may go drab sometimes to make my male side happy, but frankly, men's clothing is ugly and boring.

Our adult kids, typically modern liberal Milennials, offered to switch gender pronouns when we did the "big reveal." Without prior discussion with me, he declined their offer without apparent thought. For some people gender pronouns are tied in with their gender dysphoria. Apparently for my husband and I, this does not appear to be the case.

[Sophia Sage]

One thing I've never quite understood is why a trans person expects their CIS spouse to abandon their own traditional gender role, which the CIS spouse is very comfortable and natural, and there is no reason for an interest in doing anything else. Why should SHE abandon HER gender role? It's like you asked her to transition just a bit to male so that YOU can have the female role and be the primary female in the household. Why would any CIS woman want to do that? Could they do it? It would be no more natural or comfortable to her as it was to you trying to live as a male.

There's much truth to this, yes.

As ainsley points out, though, it's not just my expectations for her, but hers for me.  For example, when it came to the idea of child-rearing, I would have happily entertained an equal division of labor, where we each spent time staying at home to raise a baby, and each spent time working to bring in income.  But she wouldn't have it -- my desire to participate in this aspect of gender roles was something she resisted; no, I was still "supposed" to be the one who made the money to support her child-rearing.  And that's just something I couldn't do.  The very idea was very dysphoria-inducing.

So this is the sort of thing that can really complicate a pre-existing relationship.  Because of course she had certain expectations of how her life was going to go, and now those expectations were no longer being met.  Early in my transition, I was more open-minded about how I was going to react to everything; I really thought I'd be more flexible, that I was above such considerations as who made the money and who did the child-raising.  Especially given that I grew up in a household where my Dad did more child-raising and my Mom did more money-raising, though both of them did both things most of the time (though my Mom stayed home full-time until I started kindergarten, but I don't remember much of that).  But dysphoria, gosh, it precedes conscious thought, precedes reason, and I've learned I simply have to respect it.

Which means that when it got close to the end, no, it wasn't fair to expect her to give up what she wanted.  Why should she?  But by the same token, it's not fair for us to give up what we need, either.  In many relationships, then, I think the best course of action is to let go, if the sacrifices being asked of both parties end up being just too great and uncomfortable, because the needs are no longer compatible.

I've run into this in my own relationship. My husband has been dropping some of his "male act" and seems to expect me to take on more of the masculine role in our relationship, especially considering I do have a male side. It is neither comfortable or natural for me to take on a role other than feminine in many contexts (though in other contexts it's natural) and it becomes awkward when both partners want to be "the girl" in the relationship, or in sex. Like a dance in which both partners are trying to lead, or in this case, neither partner wants to be the lead.

I have a friend, another transitioner, who was in many lesbian relationships back in the day, and found a similar dynamic.  Some lesbians are fine with leaning into masculinity, and others don't find it comfortable at all, but by and large (according to her) most establish an equitable balance where everything is negotiated... but without any preexisting assumptions being made about who gets what default positions. 

Ironically, she found that after disclosing in a couple of these relationships, those assumptions began to shift and suddenly she was always the one expected to be responsible for things like car maintenance, killing spiders, what have you.  Which eventually led to the end of these relationships (among other reasons). 

All of which is to say, it's a balancing act. And maybe compromise will work, and maybe it won't. Like, it's not uncommon in some lesbian relationships where both parties are reluctant to take the lead, and "bed death" results.  Whether that relationship will still be mutually satisfying enough for both partners, well, it will ultimately depend on a lot of other factors. 

But anyways, it's funny-peculiar how a lot of gendering in general plays out in masculine/feminine dynamics.  That's a different source of gendering than feminine/feminine or masculine/masculine, and I don't find it surprising at this point, so many years after the fact, that it can become a source of contention when the dynamics change and someone ends up needing what the other can't or won't provide.  I wouldn't blame anyone -- it's just a thing, there's no blame or judgment to be made, things change and people either adapt or they don't. 

Also, I suspect that much of the "last straw" wasn't so much that you kissed a man and liked it, but because you kissed SOMEONE ELSE and liked it. You cheated on her, even if it was "just a kiss."

Yes, certainly. 

Now, to be clear, I wasn't looking to be kissed.  I thought we were just friends, and then at the end our get together he suddenly leans in and steals a kiss, pulling away before I could even kiss back.  I was completely surprised that he even felt that way about me. And then even more surprised that I wanted more.  I really felt naive about how it all went down, thinking about it in hindsight it now seems blatantly obvious how this was going to go.

But yeah, all that said, from her perspective I entirely agree and sympathize with her reaction.  Especially since she and I had gone almost two years without sexual relations ourselves. 

In the end, it was clear I was going to need to pursue a different expression of my sexuality.  Specifically, I had to know what it was like to have heterosexual relations with a man.  Which she couldn't provide, and which she couldn't abide because of her own need for monogamy.  This was a difference that could not be reconciled, coming after a lot of other changing expectations and unmet needs.