questions about chonburi flap

[kiteless]

hi everyone. i am just starting on my journey as a trans woman, and even though i'm not near that step yet i was looking at srs methods and techniques. i have read about people who had inversion done, and someone described penetrative sex as like being jerked off when they had a penis, and that doesn't appeal to me. i feel like i kind of intuitively know where stuff is supposed to go on me and the chonburi flap method seems more "right" for me. i have a couple of questions for girls who have had this type of surgery done; first of all, do any doctors offer a video, documentation or guide to show what's specifically done in the process? i want a little more clarification. and secondly, how does penetrative sex feel?

[Miss Clara]

The chonburi flap uses scrotal tissue to line the vaginal canal, and penile tissue to construct the vulva.  Penile tissue is more sensitive than scrotal tissue, so many claim that the chonburi flap better replicates the high sensitivity regions of a natal woman's genitals.  I had the chonburi flap GRS operation done by Dr. Chettawut (he doesn't call it that, but it's the same thing), and I can confirm that my vulva is much more sensitive than my vagina.  This is ideal for those of us who are in same-sex relationships in which penetrative sex is not that important.

I found this video very helpful in understanding the chonburi flap surgical procedure:

[Laura_7]

You could have a look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,203558.0.html

and here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,204651.msg1819020.html#msg1819020


*hugs*

[RubyAliza]

Hello,

     It's not entirely accurate to say that all surgeons who use the penile inversion technique don't use some of the penile skin for anatomy in the vulva as well. My surgery is with  Dr. Satterwhite in less than two months and I've talked to him about his technique. He absolutely uses penile skin for the labia minora, especially the clitoral hood, and sensitive urethral mucosal tissue between the labia minora. He pretty much always uses scrotal grafts for the deeper part of the vagina too. 

Dr. Satterwhite is one example of why it's  not as simple as penile inversion vs Thai techniques. The techniques have advanced beyond those overly reductive labels.

  As far as it feeling like jerking off during penetrative sex for people who have the so-called penile inversion technique (misnomer), I'd like to hear some others verify that. Is that what it feels like? 

   All that being said, you're absolutely right that you've got to choose a surgeon and technique that is right for you.

-Rubu

[kiteless]

Oh wow. I can't say I really like that technique better; I think they got the placement of the vulva with the penile skin correct, but they completely detached the scrotum which means zero sensation, unless I'm mistaken. Is there a doctor that uses scrotal skin to form a vaginal canal without severing the nerves?

[kiteless]

Hello,

     It's not entirely accurate to say that all surgeons who use the penile inversion technique don't use some of the penile skin for anatomy in the vulva as well. My surgery is with  Dr. Satterwhite in less than two months and I've talked to him about his technique. He absolutely uses penile skin for the labia minora, especially the clitoral hood, and sensitive urethral mucosal tissue between the labia minora. He pretty much always uses scrotal grafts for the deeper part of the vagina too. 

Dr. Satterwhite is one example of why it's  not as simple as penile inversion vs Thai techniques. The techniques have advanced beyond those overly reductive labels.

  As far as it feeling like jerking off during penetrative sex for people who have the so-called penile inversion technique (misnomer), I'd like to hear some others verify that. Is that what it feels like? 

   All that being said, you're absolutely right that you've got to choose a surgeon and technique that is right for you.


-Rubu

Yes, I have heard about the semi-inversion techniques and I think there is another doctor in California who does a mixed technique as well. This is definitely why I wanted to know about the Thai alternative, because penetrative sex would be very important to me and I do want some sensation down there, even though I'm like a 5 on the Kinsey scale.

[RubyAliza]

That being said, even though the Thai surgeons, at least Suporn, use only meshed scrotal grafts for the vagina cavity, there is probably a lot of sensation inside from the erectile tissue he lines it with. So the feeling may not come from the skin itself but what's just under it.

-Ruby

[Laura_7]

The question is ... how important is it ?

Its possible to stimulate the ... thing before srs with vibrators.
It can be a feeling very like that a cis female has imo ... detached from a certain part, just a stimulation of the whole region, and pleasurable feelings going all through the body. If thats feeling like being jerked off imo thats what cis females feel too.

Imo every surgeon makes kind of a package.
Brassard for example is said to concentrate nerve endings in the neoclit. Is that more important ?

Many surgeons use scrotal skin grafts for more depth. Well it could be a good idea to ask about nerves reconnecting.
And maybe a few people could say if they have a feeling inside. Most people say they have some kind of feeling.

Then being penetrated is also something psychologically . Imo its different from being jerked off as a guy.

In any case the prostate is preserved by almost all surgeons. It makes for a very pleasurable gspot, being hooked up by a neuronal pathway seperate from the clit.

As someone said the outcome is supposed to look like a certain image. Techniques have evolved and with very good surgeons the looks of good outcomes are with individual variations of surgeon close to the desired result. And there is a lot of variation in cis vaginas.


*hugs*

[RubyAliza]

The question is ... how important is it ?

Its possible to stimulate the ... thing before srs with vibrators.
It can be a feeling very like that a cis female has imo ... detached from a certain part, just a stimulation of the whole region, and pleasurable feelings going all through the body. If thats feeling like being jerked off imo thats what cis females feel too.

I was thinking the same thing. Your whole post was very helpful in thinking through this "issue." Besides, not only only do vaginas come in many different shapes and sizes, as you point out, but also with various levels/kinds of sensations. Some woman don't have that much feeling in their vagina. They may even more just below in their..well you know On average though, woman have most of their nerves concentrated in their clitoris and within the first in or two inches of the vaginal opening (info comes from a lecture from my sexual variations professor). And like you say (very helpful!) that it's not just the actual feelings coming from nerve endings, but also the whole act of being penetrated. And there are a few ways that can happen haha

Sometimes I think about just how lucky MTFs have it. It's not the same for FTM's although it's getting better. I have though just sat, thought, and felt sad imagining what it would be like to have dysphoria and not be able to do something about it, or at least not yet. So we have it lucky and shouldn't take medical science for granted. It's all amazing.

- Ruby

[BlackDuck]

The chonburi flap uses scrotal tissue to line the vaginal canal, and penile tissue to construct the vulva.  Penile tissue is more sensitive than scrotal tissue, so many claim that the chonburi flap better replicates the high sensitivity regions of a natal woman's genitals.  I had the chonburi flap GRS operation done by Dr. Chettawut (he doesn't call it that, but it's the same thing), and I can confirm that my vulva is much more sensitive than my vagina.  This is ideal for those of us who are in same-sex relationships in which penetrative sex is not that important.

I found this video very helpful in understanding the chonburi flap surgical procedure:

[BlackDuck]

With all due respect to the girls here who have spent considerable time and effort to select their surgeon and surgical methodology, every girl has a right to be supportive of their choice. But I must correct some errors that are fundamental to your choice of procedure and surgeon.

Having read through the comments on ' Chonburi Flap ' procedure I am compelled to reply, not to change anyone's choice of surgeon or procedure, simply to rectify some errors. The famed 'Chonburi Flap' has nothing to do with the vaginal canal, nor is it a description of the nature of surgery required to complete a " NON PENILE INVERSION " method. The Chonburi flap procedure is a sub routine used by Dr Suporn uses to create a secondary sensate area which he will locate along the labial surface just surrounding and below the Clitoris. It is completely independant of the creation of the neo-vagina during Penile Inversion.

It is certainly true that Suporn will use Scrotal Tissue for the Vaginal Wall, in fact he will suppliment it with donor material from the Peri-Anal area to ensure the depth criteria is met. To claim that the procedures conducted by Dr Chettawut are synonimous with the method employed by Dr Suporn is an extremely naive and ill informed opinion. I have nothing against Dr Chett, he is an extremely good surgeon, BUT, he simply does not perform surgery of a similar nature to Suporn.

I know both surgeons, I work with patients of both and I assist them in their aftercare and recovery. I am also post operative with Suporn.