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Married and just-discovered nonbinary male - What do I do?

Started by karenk1959, March 23, 2017, 01:35:27 PM

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karenk1959

I have been married for 31 years and through therapy came to realize that a large part of my gender identity is female. I fantasized about being a girl and played with my girlfriend's dolls when I was a kid, as well as dressed up in my Mom's underwear. I repressed the feelings for years. When away on conferences as an older adult, I would buy pantyhose to wear, but it made me feel guilty and abnormal. Now I realize that although I am male, culturally educated to be male  and am interested in many male things, I feel like I have been born in the wrong body with the wrong anatomy. I do not want to transition or lose my wife, family and friends. Recently, my wife was open to my crossdressing (I wore panties every day and had bras and pantyhose in a draw that she cleared out for me). I felt good wearing panties like other women, but relatively quickly, it greatly bothered my wife that I was wearing lingerie. It became apparent to me that it was either stop wearing panties or separate from my wife. I feel caught between strong urges to do feminine things and wanting to preserve my present life and marriage. Does anyone have a similar situation or have any good advice as to how to handle my feelings or other outlets that I might pursue? Thanks!
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flytrap

It's very important to realize there are many reasons a person may need to express themself as another gender that have nothing to do with being transgender. Therapy is an important first step in helping a person understand why.

Childhood sexual abuse can cause extreme gender and sexuality confusion. The trauma can be so severe that the mind to lock away the memories and feelings so deeply a person may not even remember them.

Research conducted by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that 21% of people (1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls) are sexually abused before the age of 18. U.S. Department of Justice National Sex Offender Public Website
https://www.nsopw.gov/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics

In comparison, the Williams Institute's most recent estimate is that  0.6% of adults identify as transgender in the United States.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf

I was sexually and psychologically abused as a child and developed Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder. My brain created me, the only girl alter in my System to cope with being raped by another boy. My primary alter (he's a guy) was misdiagnosed as transsexual for 2 years.  He thought he had some sort of compulsive crossdressing compulsion since he was a little boy. But DID is a disorder of secrecy. The victims life depended on hiding what they were doing. Even my primary alter didn't know it was just me being a girl until the flashbacks, night terrors and time loss started.
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JeanetteLW

Hi Karen

I'm Jeanette. I just want to welcome you to Susan's Place. I'm glad you found us. I hope you like it here and decide to stick around.

Jeanette
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Sigmund7

Karen - Welcome to the site.  As you can tell I'm quite the newbie myself. Except for a few details, your story sounds a lot like mine.  I've never been unhappy in my male body but have always had a strong feminine side.  It never really bothered me except that I have been unable to express that side of my personality openly.  My wife is quite tolerant and supportive of my choices, but I have never pushed lingerie and the like as daily wear.  Continue your therapy, get your wife involved if your issues are related to your relationship or begin to affect your relationship and seak the opinions of others.

Best of luck in your journey.
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Sno

In Transgender Talk, there is a sticky that is written from a spouses perspective, about 'how to' without blowing up our marriages.

I am blessed in my partner was the one who spotted the woman within, it was after years of teasing that I was 'such a girl'. We had a home invasion, and my reaction to the aftermath is written here, in many places. Suffice to say I had a gender based meltdown.

I take time for me, when she is out, it helps to still the bees. I try to live in the now as much as I can, it keeps me focussed on something other than myself (distraction). I struggle with social situations as I am aware that I am taking a feminine role, or playing the masculine, and that is draining. I now have words to describe the interactions of gender and understand how and why I react in specific ways in specific highly genedered situations. Yes those are real, tangible positives.

I've learned a lot about myself, and am now working on me, to be a better partner and to change how I react, and I experiment to find somethings that will help me be more comfortable, but she is my life companion, I accept that there will either be compromise, and companionship or no compromise and no companionship, both ways. I am fortunate that my identity is a mix, between femme and neutrois, as many of my wants are not needs. Yet.

I have to put the yet in, because I do not know how this will develop in the longer term, and if I can sustainably keep my needs to a manageable level, especially in the light of my anxieties and phobias.

Rowan
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Selina

Hi Karen and welcome to the forum. My story is quite similar to yours. I just started seeing a therapist and she believes I am gender fluid. I am tired of repressing my female side and feminine feelings and refuse to do it anymore. I too have my wife, kids, family, friends, job etc to consider, but I am going to express myself. I'm hopeful that my wife will be willing to compromise and work with me to come up with something we can both live with.
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Dena

One thing you should consider is visiting a gender therapist. Our dysphoria isn't always the same and may increase as you age. A gender therapist will help you define what you are feeling and what may be in the future for you. In addition a few joint sessions with your wife will help you redefine your future relationship with your wife. It's possible she could become more tolerant if she understands your needs better.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
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SailorMars1994

Quote from: flytrap on March 23, 2017, 03:51:22 PM
It's very important to realize there are many reasons a person may need to express themself as another gender that have nothing to do with being transgender. Therapy is an important first step in helping a person understand why.

Childhood sexual abuse can cause extreme gender and sexuality confusion. The trauma can be so severe that the mind to lock away the memories and feelings so deeply a person may not even remember them.

Research conducted by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that 21% of people (1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls) are sexually abused before the age of 18. U.S. Department of Justice National Sex Offender Public Website
https://www.nsopw.gov/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics

In comparison, the Williams Institute's most recent estimate is that  0.6% of adults identify as transgender in the United States.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf

I was sexually and psychologically abused as a child and developed Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder. My brain created me, the only girl alter in my System to cope with being raped by another boy. My primary alter (he's a guy) was misdiagnosed as transsexual for 2 years.  He thought he had some sort of compulsive crossdressing compulsion since he was a little boy. But DID is a disorder of secrecy. The victims life depended on hiding what they were doing. Even my primary alter didn't know it was just me being a girl until the flashbacks, night terrors and time loss started.

Just sayin', I dont see how this fits in with the discussion at hand
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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Jackie S

karenk1959, there has already been some good advice given, so I won't repeat any of that. You will note that almost all of the advice is prefaced with (or ended with) some variation of "your situation is unique and we can only offer observations or relate our own personal experience with the hope that you may find some of it relevant or helpful". In that spirit, I'll share some of my own coping strategies.

My wife of 41 years is not comfortable at all with encountering a full-blown femme in the house. That's mostly okay with me as I am non-binary and genderfluid (which means I'm not full-blown anything). Note that she is not opposed to it, necessarily, in principle, it's just that being confronted with it physically, in the flesh, pushes her in-grained cultural buttons. (And, SHE is the one who sometimes shares sexual fantasies with me about her having the male equipment and me being the female when we are having sex -- usually with her on top.)

Nonetheless, she is repelled with the idea of me wearing panties. But, men's athletic cotton/spandex briefs (with NO pouch) --men's panties --is fine. Skirts on me? No way. A sarong worn in the South Pacific style? No problem -- even when worn short (above the knee... yes, it looks just like a wrap-around skirt... but it's NOT a skirt, it's a sarong/pareo/lava-lava... and that's different).  :)

Me wear a woman's blouse? Not on your life. But she has no problem with me wearing a frilly "poet's shirt" like Lord Byron wore 150 years ago (lace and all). Or a silk button-up that has a "body shirt" cut (that's a princess cut in the women's line) is great.

A dress? Out of the question! But a dashki (the unisex garment from Southern Asia) is fine - whether it only comes to the hip (as a feminized shirt) or is floor-length (a "man dress"). A nightgown? No way! But a nightshirt is sensible, even if it is very lightweight (i.e. thin and gauzy material) and comes to above the knee.

Because of a lower disc problem, I had to get one of those elastic back supports they sell in the home centers and wear it when I am doing "manly" stuff. I am now starting to humorously refer to it as "my corset" so that if I decide to get a waist nipper, she will see that as a dressy back support.

Mainly, I have learned that if I don't need to be full-blown femme, that I can find a sometime-in-history garment that men wore that is pretty much the same as a female garment (including corsets)... and that can justify it in her mind.

As long as I don't try to force too much on her too fast we seem to make progress and compromises in outfits, appearance (my hair is getting longer -- she sees it as a throwback to hippie days), and jewelry (although I joked about finding clip-on earrings for me and she recoiled... she's not ready for that, yet). But, do I see a day where she is? Yes, if I am wanting to pursue it. (Being genderfluid means that some days I DON'T WANT too much femininity.)

At any rate, it is a dance that we are both learning the steps to as we go along. I am fortunate in that my dysphoria (at least at present) is mostly appeased by doing these things (and others that aren't germane to this discussion). As I said at the beginning: Your mileage may vary.

However it works for you, I wish you well.

Hugs,
Jackie

Non-binary - genderfluid: M30%-Flux40%-F30% ... but 100% me. And loving it! (Mostly  ;))
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Jacqueline

Welcome to the site.

I am going to echo what Dena said. I think you should set up an appointment with a gender therapist. I would also suggest your wife might want to speak to someone too. It is a tough path. I will be married 27 years in about 6 months, with three daughters. We are talking a lot. Communication is a key I think.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

Things that you should read





Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





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JoanneB

Quote from: karenk1959 on March 23, 2017, 01:35:27 PM
I have been married for 31 years and through therapy came to realize that a large part of my gender identity is female. I fantasized about being a girl and played with my girlfriend's dolls when I was a kid, as well as dressed up in my Mom's underwear. I repressed the feelings for years. When away on conferences as an older adult, I would buy pantyhose to wear, but it made me feel guilty and abnormal. Now I realize that although I am male, culturally educated to be male  and am interested in many male things, I feel like I have been born in the wrong body with the wrong anatomy. I do not want to transition or lose my wife, family and friends. Recently, my wife was open to my crossdressing (I wore panties every day and had bras and pantyhose in a draw that she cleared out for me). I felt good wearing panties like other women, but relatively quickly, it greatly bothered my wife that I was wearing lingerie. It became apparent to me that it was either stop wearing panties or separate from my wife. I feel caught between strong urges to do feminine things and wanting to preserve my present life and marriage. Does anyone have a similar situation or have any good advice as to how to handle my feelings or other outlets that I might pursue? Thanks!
My Advice:
1) Patience - Time is your Friend
2) Ditch your old friends, Shame & Guilt
3) Communicate - Especially those hard open and honest discussions that are needed

When faced with one of life's unanswerable questions, I found a simple rephrasing of it leads to the answer or choice you need to make:
"Which Pain is Worse?"

As a Pre-Juraisic dinosaur I am quite familiar with your feelings and situation all too well. I tried fighting the Trans-Beast since I was about 4 in all sorts of ways. Even "experimented" with transitioning twice in my early 20's to finally settle on being a Normal(ish) guy. My current wife, girl friend, BFF, & Reality Therapist of nearly 40 years knew from about day 1 of my gender issues. By that time I was in the "Settling" on being a CD, though she knew of my history.

She did not exactly encourage that aspect of me, and certainly tried her best not to discourage it. It is a part of me. Still during my monthly or so escapes from maleness when I cross-dressed it was clear that it bothered her, to the point of closeness and intimacy was out for upwards of a week or so because "All she could see was Joanne". A total buzz-kill for her. The end result was me relying even more on my 3D's, Diversions, Distractions and some Denial, to beat the beast. My strength to fight came from my two oldest and (not so) dearest friends Shame & Guilt. What I wanted or needed didn't matter. After all, in the grand scheme of things I was just this thing that existed to do "What was expected".  That was until I finally broke and needed to take on the Trans-Beast for real.

Too much too fast will overwhelm any spouse. We've spent a lifetime living, breathing, dealing with, and trying to understand being trans. Our spouses had barely milli-Seconds to in comparison. Often you will see here the "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" attitude after telling an S.O. your deepest darkest and most shame filled secret only to find that the Earth did open up to swallow you, or that meteor did not land squarely on your head. Not even glanced by a lightning strike.

My wife, who knew of my gender issues for nearly 30 years, even saw me cross-dressed, even offered clothing & makeup hints, never the less was in total shock followed by betrayal when I dropped the T-Bomb on her. I had zero plans on transitioning of any sort. Been there tried it twice. Both times utter fails. Plus, as she would often say, "No one in their right mind wants to be a 50 year old woman" followed by a laundry list of reasons why. (yes, there was quite a bit of irony there). We had LOTS of very difficult, especially for this non-talker, especially about feelings person, very open and honest discussions.

During the first year or so she helped me grow as a person. My overall theme in taking on the beast was I needed new tools, healthier ways, to deal with being trans, to better manage my condition. I began reading a ton of self help books. Some spoke to me, others did not. By the time I dropped the T-Bomb on her, I had been to my third ever TG support group meeting and knew for certain I NEEDED to be there. After some 50 years I thought I knew it all. Still I was in shock after the first meeting from being in a room filled with others whose life stories/feelings almost mirrored my own. That shock is still there today some 8 years later.

The first year or so was difficult for us both. All the unknowns, uncertainties, and for her, the Betrayal that I wasn't "Just a CD". BTW - betrayal is a big hot button issue for her. Also during that first year I slowly started growing as a person. I was slowly distancing myself from my two oldest friends, Shame & Guilt. I slowly started changing back into a for-real person, no longer that same lifeless, soulless thing, that "Angry" person I had become after a lifetime of not-handling being trans. She saw the benefits, though still scared of the unknowns the future may bring as I followed this new path.

Now 8 years later, I still live and present primarily as male. My wife, probably loves me more now then back 40 years when both of our hormones were raging. Yes, she is not happy about a loosing "the man". She can no longer see me as one with breasts nicer then hers. I can not doubt she is troubled when I do present fully as female around the house for she can see the joy and happiness radiate from me.

We both have no idea what the future holds. Her greatest fear is me leaving her. Yet today she see's and knows all that I do for her and to preserve "The Us". We both know what a hardship this is for the other. Life in general is a compromise of many conflicting needs and wants, more so in a marriage when the other's needs and wants must also be balanced against your own. We both know how much more of a hardship it was when I didn't do anything about being trans.

So Which Pain is Worse for you? Stuff the trans-beast away in that deep dark dungeon like you tried many times before? Or, knowing there are no "Do Overs", the cat is out of the bag, your wife knows about your gender issues, you know a little of her fears and now try work things out?
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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BirlPower

Jackie S. That is some really interesting advice. I hadn't thought in that way before.

I can add that what Joanne says about time is very true in my case also. When I first came out to my wife she was utterly horrified. Over the first year she couldn't bear to look at me dressed but she did her own homework and we talked a fair bit. She learned that it was more likely to get "worse" from her point of view than "better" and she had to decide whether she wanted to try to get used to it or move on. She decided to try and now, several years later, I only dress femme at home and she accepts it just fine. I know she would prefer I wore trousers but she no longer looks uncomfortable around me, we go shopping with me in womens clothing, but not skirts, and she even seems OK with that. Our relationship has changed but not all for the worse. It takes time and only time will tell how much your wife will adapt to changes in your presentation. It is amazing what we can get used to. My advice is take it slow, talk as much as possible. Find out what your wife can tolerate and what she can't. For me, my wife became more tolerant when she understood that I wasn't choosing to do this and I wasn't trying to hurt her. Later when she saw how much happier and more relaxed I was she became even more tolerant and accepting. I can hardly believe the distance we've come but it shows that if both of you want it, anything is possible. On our wedding anniversary I dressed in the male clothing she likes and we went out. It was my gift to her and she seemed to really appreciate it. I found it wasn't too hard knowing it was just for one night. Compromise is good and it doesn't always have to be forever.

We don't really do counselling here in the UK, we talk to each other and our friends so I can't comment on the efficacy of that approach but it appears to work well for most of the people who go down that route.

Wishing you all the best for the future.
B
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Jackie S

To expand just a bit on my previous comment, I have a fresh example -- just last night, in fact. My wife and I went to Kohl's Department Store last night because we had some great coupons and cash equivalents from them that would stack on top of any sales they had. And, she wanted me to get some more "man panties". (She didn't call them that, but she knows that's what they are. The are black (the only color they come in), and binkini-panty-cut with a woven elastic at the waist (that makes them masculine  ;)). They are so close to panties that several times she has folded her own black panties into the stack with mine, completely without realizing it. At any rate, I didn't have quite enough for a full round between laundry cycles, so she wanted me to get more.

While there, we found a rack of tee-shirts (in the men's dept) that were all polyester and as soft as polished silk... in V-neck (which is what I need to wear as crew-necks create problems for me). These are not undershirts, they are outerwear. To take best advantage of the coupons, I needed to get 3 of them. However, they only had the v-necks in white or black, although they had a number of other colors in the crew-neck. We were both disappointed but went with 3 white ones for me.

As we were then shopping the women's departments (for her) I noticed a rack of v-neck tee-shirts that I would love to have-- super-soft and with a deeper v than the men's. As we went by them, I mentioned to her that I may have to start shopping this section for my tee-shirts since they have them in colors. She paused and started looking through them (I think for her). It turns out that the colors they had weren't quite right for me (they were all jewel-tones and I need pastel or dusty hues). At any rate, because of "necessity" certain areas of the women's line are in-bounds. Especially when (as these were) they are the same brand as can be found in the men's dept (Apt 9 -- which is Kohl's store brand).

A little creative thinking and some patience... and re-framing can make a world of difference.

Hugs,
Jackie
Non-binary - genderfluid: M30%-Flux40%-F30% ... but 100% me. And loving it! (Mostly  ;))
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