Trump administration erases LGBT people from survey of older adults

[SadieBlake]

Trump administration erases LGBT people from survey of older adults

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-lgbt-health-surveys-6e53f3484337
Without data, there's no way to address discrimination LGBT people might be experiencing.

Think Progress/By Zack Ford   03/21/2017

CREDIT: AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite
The Trump administration's gradual erasure of LGBT people from the work of the federal government is still underway. This week, the Department of Health and Human Services arbitrarily decided to just stop counting LGBT people in two critical surveys, eliminating vital data collection that could be used to help address the health disparities that LGBT people are known to experience.

[Deborah]

The past month should erase anyone's lingering fantasy that Trump is not a simply a puppet of the right wing Evangelicals and Catholics who would like to erase LBGT from the dictionary.

Catholics and Evangelicals agree on very little.  But they do agree that we are somehow the harbingers of the apocalypse.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[Michelle_P]

A gentle reminder for everyone...

Susan has some Terms of Service for her site that folks should try to follow.  In particular, political discussions need to be very aware of a couple of these rules:

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.

16. Please limit religious discussions to the spirituality forum. If a thread in another forum turns into a religious discussion please move the thread to the spirituality forum. Our moderators will assist in this process if necessary. Two restrictions apply to your use of the spirituality boards:
A. You are not to pass judgments on others beliefs, any more than they are welcome to pass judgement on yours.
B. You are free to talk about how your spirituality affects your life, but you cannot proselytize or attempt to convert others.

[AnneK]

The past month should erase anyone's lingering fantasy that Trump is not a simply a puppet of the right wing Evangelicals and Catholics who would like to erase LBGT from the dictionary.

This is why religion must be kept out of government.  We've had similar in Canada, with the Conservatives at both the federal and provincial levels.

Moderator edited

[Amy1988]

The past month should erase anyone's lingering fantasy that Trump is not a simply a puppet of the right wing Evangelicals and Catholics who would like to erase LBGT from the dictionary.

Catholics and Evangelicals agree on very little.  But they do agree that we are somehow the harbingers of the apocalypse.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

I wish I was the harbinger of the apocalypse. 

[Deborah]

I didn't make that harbinger comment off the cuff.  There actually was a well known conservative lesbian that said recently, "that androgyny becomes prevalent as a civilization is starting to unravel. You find it again and again and again in history."  http://bit.ly/2nowh6U

They really believe this stuff.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[Michelle_P]

Ahhh, Camille Paglia.  An interesting critic.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=130364.0

[DemonRaven]

This kind of thing is why we need to keep our own statics and not rely on any one else. There was a reason LGBT's had our own places and organizations in the past and they are still needed. I know many thought that time was over but it is not.

[Brooke]

I didn't make that harbinger comment off the cuff.  There actually was a well known conservative lesbian that said recently, "that androgyny becomes prevalent as a civilization is starting to unravel. You find it again and again and again in history."  http://bit.ly/2nowh6U

They really believe this stuff.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Isn't it fascinating that in that video she talks of permanent change and doors closing only from the perspective of damage caused by transitioning during ones youth.  Yet nowhere is it mentioned that inaction be just as damaging and  consequential. The argument could just as easily be made by not intervening, arming said youth with the knowledge and consequences of both choices, transitioning now or waiting could make life extremely difficult.

We all know that if you don't transition before a certain age, that your body will develop permanently with the secondary characteristics of the sex you were born with, effectively closing the door on those biological changes, not to mention the life shaping experiences of growing up in your congruent gender role.

I know this is information that I did not have growing up, and if there was that awareness, that knowledge and that choice I would have taken that red pill.

I tend to get frustrated by arguments that are presented as fact but in truth are opinion with the counter argument being just as legitimate. Just seems like your missing the foundation to call something factual or a universal truth.  I wish it was more accepted and common place to make such arguments from the standpoint of "personal truth, personal values, personal ethics, and opinion". Sadly we do not live in a society where we can be taken seriously with those types of disclaimers and disclosures.

I am perfectly okay with people having conflicting viewpoints, and sticking to those as opinions and personal truths. I do however get frustrated when those opinions are used to influence policy when established facts, science and evidence is readily available. Heck even I have my own belief system some of which conflicts with the factual evidence available. I have oils not force that belief system on someone else or try to present it as fact to influence policy. Sadly we hold some opinions and views so closely and deeply that they become part of our core identity and an attack on those beliefs feels and in many ways are an attack on our very being.

Okay that went a bit too far into the philosophical argument but whatever, I think I made my point.

[DemonRaven]

[

I didn't make that harbinger comment off the cuff.  There actually was a well known conservative lesbian that said recently, "that androgyny becomes prevalent as a civilization is starting to unravel. You find it again and again and again in history."  http://bit.ly/2nowh6U

They really believe this stuff.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Concerning this comment it is more likely that they are not seeing the whole picture and shoving the timeline of events to close together. Prominent scholars do not share that view.  Rome had a lot of same sex activity going on and it lasted for a very long time. India and native american's used to have or have transgender people in the cultural traditions and until we came along both were doing just fine.

[Janes Groove]

This week, the Department of Health and Human Services arbitrarily decided to just stop counting LGBT people in two critical surveys, eliminating vital data collection that could be used to help address the health disparities that LGBT people are known to experience.

The census is the way federal $$$$$$$ are allocated for everything from school programs to meals on wheels and everything in between.  How federal $$$$ are allocated influences how private and corporate $$$$$$$ are allocated.  Those are $$$$$$ that they collect from us. If they don't count us, then we don't count.  It's a pretty simple equation.  Elections have consequences.

[Deborah]

Rome had a lot of same sex activity going on and it lasted for a very long time.

Their common argument, as simple minded as it is, is that all civilizations fell in the past because of homosexuality.  Once that reached some undefined threshold, God intervened to end the civilization.  They always cite Rome as the example.

The problem with their argument is that in the late fourth century, immediately after Christianity was made the official religion, the Christian emperor made homosexuality a capitol offense.  Within 30 years the gates of Rome fell to the Germans.  So, reducing this argument to their level, one is left to conclude that "God" destroyed Rome because Rome tried to destroy homosexuality. 

Unfortunately, facts and reality have no bearing on these arguments. 

Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[DemonRaven]

The census is the way federal $$$$$$$ are allocated for everything from school programs to meals on wheels and everything in between.  How federal $$$$ are allocated influences how private and corporate $$$$$$$ are allocated.  Those are $$$$$$ that they collect from us. If they don't count us, then we don't count.  It's a pretty simple equation.  Elections have consequences.

Oh we will be counted we just won't be identified as lgbt. Apparently someone decided our statistics were not important.

[Janes Groove]

Oh we will be counted we just won't be identified as lgbt.

Hmmm. That's an interesting distinction.  One I would relate to my personal experience of living in the closet.  My physical form was seen and took up space.  If somebody got too close and bumped into me then their path would be blocked.  You would have seen what appeared to you to be a man.  In groups during roll call I piped up, "here" and someone would check off a box on a form as a physical body being present.  But was I really there? Was my voice ever heard?  Did anyone ever know me? Or was I simply invisible?  What good does it do to count a physical body and neglect the essence of what makes that physical body unique.  This is to essentially count me as another cisgender body.  It's akin to counting an African-American person as a Caucasian person.  It does me no good to be counted as something I am not.

Now I'm out of the closet and everybody and their brother know about it, at no small cost either.  But Uncle Sam still refuses to see me because of a willful and deliberate looking away from what he finds to be an inconvenient truth.

[itsApril]

Trump administration erases LGBT people from survey of older adults

This week, the Department of Health and Human Services arbitrarily decided to just stop counting LGBT people in two critical surveys, eliminating vital data collection that could be used to help address the health disparities that LGBT people are known to experience.

It's how this administration is approaching lots of things it won't or can't deal with.  The electoral base of the administration is uncomfortable with or hostile to gender nonconformity.  Well, we'll just stop counting them.  If we don't see them, they really aren't there any more.

May I offer a parallel?  The administration has no intention to deal constructively with climate change and its consequent environmental destruction.  So its response is to shut down research programs in NASA, NOAA, and EPA aimed at understanding climate change.

The choice our government is making: if we pretend we don't see it coming, it's not real.

[mac1]

I don't see any real problem with that in this incidence.  Gender or sexual preference should not be a consideration in determining the overall needs and concerns of older adults as viewed by the government.

[AnneK]

How can the government develop appropriate policy, without all the facts?  The "right wing" types have a habit of burying inconvenient facts.  We had the same here in Canada, with the previous Prime Minister.  Like Trump, he tried to shut down science that supported things he didn't like.

[DemonRaven]

I don't see any real problem with that in this incidence.  Gender or sexual preference should not be a consideration in determining the overall needs and concerns of older adults as viewed by the government.

You are so wrong. Many elderly LGBT's go back into the closet because they are vulnerable. The ones that are out suffer discrmination on a greater scale than other populations. The fact that they are burying this is concerning.

[Brooke]

You are so wrong. Many elderly LGBT's go back into the closet because they are vulnerable. The ones that are out suffer discrmination on a greater scale than other populations. The fact that they are burying this is concerning.

Also most older Americans have Medicare as their primary insurance. At this point there is no national coverage determination/policy for any transgender related procedures. Bottom line for this scenario is no surgeon will perform any type of gender confirming procedure as even if they do get reimbursed Medicare can decide at a whim how much money to put towards the claim. It also is illegal to bill Medicare and then the patient once Medicare has accepted the claim. This means that any trans individual on Medicare can't use their insurance to help with some of the cost. Medicare also does not allow for prior authorization, so it's a crapshoot if the surgeon or provider will even get a dime.

Minority populations need to be counted to be considered, plain and simple.

[mac1]

Also most older Americans have Medicare as their primary insurance. At this point there is no national coverage determination/policy for any transgender related procedures. Bottom line for this scenario is no surgeon will perform any type of gender confirming procedure as even if they do get reimbursed Medicare can decide at a whim how much money to put towards the claim. It also is illegal to bill Medicare and then the patient once Medicare has accepted the claim. This means that any trans individual on Medicare can't use their insurance to help with some of the cost. Medicare also does not allow for prior authorization, so it's a crapshoot if the surgeon or provider will even get a dime.

Minority populations need to be counted to be considered, plain and simple.

You are correct with respect to medicare.  Most doctors consider transsexual surgeries to be elective surgeries and will be reluctant to perform them on people who are over 65.  Thus there would be very few claims for coverage under medicare even if the surgeries were covered.