Trans and drag?

[Jenntrans]

Nowadays the concept of drag has changed a bit. It's not only about giving the ilusion of the other gender, but about creating a character with a visual impact.

There are men doing female drag characters and men doing male characters, the same happens for women. There are drag artists that create androginous drag characters. There are some that don't even look human! It's not about the gender of the artist anymore, it's about the character. What's wrong with a trans girl that likes to be a drag queen sometimes? Or with a trans guy? If you like it, then do it. Don't let anyone question your decition to transition because of it. Like gender and sexuality, they are different things.

Nothing at all. Everyone need to make a living. Personally I want to be a woman all the time. I can do comedy in a trans woman sort of way if I was funny enough.

Jesus, does anyone remember the movie Connie and Carla? Two women that witnessed a mob murder in Chicago moved to LA and worked in a Drag Club to hide and be singers. They were women and passed as drag queens because of the makeup.

If you are transitioning then transition for you and you alone. A biological woman can't technically be a drag queen and a biological man can't technically be a drag king without transitioning. If you are transitioning then how about this, original transgender comedy poking jokes at all the BS we have to go through? That would be totally original and the time is getting right because more and more people are identifying with it.

I don't want to get crude here but the bathroom issue is a big one that you can self deprecate with. Forgetting to sit and pee in the women's room and some paranoid woman telling her boyfriend or accidentally dressed in a short skirt and walking into a men's room and using a urinal.

I mean seriously I am trans and yet I voted for the "King Cheeto" and thought he may be better than the "Godmother" and she is not even a "fairy". That is just off the top of my head though. Then I could build on it with the horse's head in the movie The Godfather but not the head but another part. So see comedy is not that hard if you can be self deprecating I can't sing or dance and look like >-bleeped-< most of the time but you bet your ass I would be dressed in my best lingerie and stilettos in front of the mike. But one thing that is serious is that we all need to get over all the serious >-bleeped-< though. Entertain me, make me laugh, make me cry but (some entertainers don't get this part now) don't make me pissed off and angry because of political views. I am bombarded with that everyday.

LOL how many people would think a drag queen dressed as Marilyn and "Happy Birthday" to Donald Trump? He would probably think it would be funny too. I know this will probably hit some nerves but please everyone lighten up and laugh a little. Sometimes >-bleeped-< is just funny the more outrageous it gets. I am doing my part though and my friends laugh at me and I hit them back and we laugh about it all.

But when it comes to certain spectrums it is far easier for a trans woman to be a drag queen than who she really is. It is fare easier for a man to be a drag queen than being a trans woman full time. I assume it is the same with drag kings and trans men.

Damn off the rails there.

[Michelle_P]

Elisabeth has it right way back in her early post.

Transgender persons have identities; drag performers have personas.

Drag is a performance, a form of entertainment built on playing with gender presentation.  Drag can be done by anyone.  Straight males, gay males, bi males and transwomen have all done drag queens.  Straight females, bi and gay women, and transmen have all done drag kings.

People that do drag are entertainers, or are engaged in a recreational activity such as the competitions in the Courts. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Court_System )

There is a misconception that all transgender people are drag performers; perhaps just not very good at it.  There is a misconception that all drag performers are gay.  This is also not true.

People doing drag are not necessarily transgender persons.  Transgender persons are not necessarily drag performers.  People doing drag are not necessarily gay or lesbian persons.  Gay or lesbian persons are not necessarily drag performers.
People doing drag are not necessarily straight. Straight people are not necessarily drag performers.

It's a character.  I can do a pretty fierce drag king, but that's not how I identify.  (And since I am pre-FFS, I feel like I'd be cheating with the bones and voice!)



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Devlyn]

I'd like to present this from another angle.

Elisabeth has it right way back in her early post.

Transgender persons have identities; drag performers have personas.

I am not comfortable making that determination for someone else. Our identities are sacred and not up for discussion.

Drag is a performance, a form of entertainment built on playing with gender presentation.  Drag can be done by anyone.  Straight males, gay males, bi males and transwomen have all done drag queens.  Straight females, bi and gay women, and transmen have all done drag kings.

People that do drag are entertainers, or are engaged in a recreational activity such as the competitions in the Courts. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Court_System )

There is a misconception that all transgender people are drag performers; perhaps just not very good at it.  There is a misconception that all drag performers are gay.  This is also not true.

People doing drag are not necessarily transgender persons.

For the sake of clarity, on the site they are:


Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and Transvestites.


We need to remember and embrace all the diversity in this community. Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Drag:

While the general public may be most familiar with the "high drag" of professional performance artists, drag is also part of regular life and street culture for many gender-nonconforming or gender-variant people, who may or may not consider what they do, "drag."


I'd like to think we're a little more enlightened here than the general public.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Michelle_P]

Devlyn is correct regarding definitions, in that transgender by definition may include drag performers; however, please be careful not to assign identities to other persons.  There are drag performers who will definitely deny being transgender persons, and really won't take well to being told that they are trans.

We don't get to diagnose or assign identity to other persons.  Trying to do this to a drag performer is every bit as rude as mis-identifying a trans person.

That is my sole point.

Let drag performers tell your how they identify.  Do not jump to assumptions, or invert and over-generalize definitions.

[Janes Groove]

Isn't a drag king or queen on some level transgender tho?  I mean what's the motivation?  It's basically a gender nonconforming act.  Or, in other words, an act of gender nonconformity. Isn't it?

I can understand if someone is just doing it for the bucks, but that's really more of a female impersonator. Are there male impersonators? In Las Vegas?

[Transfused]

I love drag.
I don't see them as a threat to my womanhood.
I see them as artists.

There are many drag queens who I find very attractive. Courtney Act and Farah Moan for example.

[Jenntrans]

You know after re reading the replies from Devlyn and Michelle, maybe it is a way to be your true self without actually tackling the T identity.

My best friend is gay. He really don't get the T thing. In today's time it is still pretty much taboo to be transgender than gay yet more acceptable for gay men to dress as women in an entertainment atmosphere than actual transsexuals that live full time. Quite a few are more than likely trans but it is easier to be gay than trans. We all do what we do to survive and that is mentally and fiscally.

But seriously I can't judge or make any assumptions about anyone unless they tell me themselves. Four days ago that gay friend told me he found himself being more attracted to more women than men but preferred trans women. Then he hit on me and I told him , "No Sweetie, let's not ruin a close friendship with an intimate relationship that may or may not work out." But apparently with him anyway being totally gay and into total masculinity in his partner is fluid. Hell I am fluid too because when I was younger I was totally attracted to different guys and men than I am now.

See the big problem is that when it comes to identity you are talking about something that is deeper that really isn't even understood totally and that would be the human mind. Even Psychologists and Psychiatrists know how the mind and  brain function for the most part but they don't totally understand it. Another big thing is that I don't think we understand ourselves totally. So what we do to cope and as a release can be anything as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I stand by what I said earlier, Who cares? As long as the person is happy with who they are that is the most important thing. To be completely honest we should all be happy with who we are regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes. The only one that has to be me is me. That is the same with everyone so in a perfect world everyone else that is being themselves should respect that.

I think this is the biggest part of being human and overcoming a type of herd mentality. I just happen to be a part of the LGBT community but I am not LGBT because I am just me and I have  name and not just Jennifer that is a Trans woman.

So in reality Trans or Drag can't be a general question but an question to be answered by an individual. I don't think there is any right answer.

[Devlyn]

You're  in the Drag subforum. I don't think your blending in matters to them in the least. I'm not even sure why you felt compelled to say that here.

[Jenntrans]

You're  in the Drag subforum. I don't think your blending in matters to them in the least. I'm not even sure why you felt compelled to say that here.

Because I have been considered a "drag queen". I have actually worked the part when hungry. I could because I had a penis instead of a vagina. Yet I was trans and passing a lot of the time don't have a lot to do with it. Quite a few are trans but it is way easier to come out as gay as it is coming out as trans. There was no difference. Some of the "girls" were effeminate gay, a couple were even straight and or married and a few lived full time in private but not public and some even lived full time. Regardless everyone has the chance to live their own lives how they see fit.

Usually I won't answer but this was a post about Drag Queens. Believe it or not we span the spectrum of all sexual orientations and gender identities. It is an entertainment job and pays better than most other jobs in a bar room or club environment. So you work it to eat and pay the bills just like everyone else.

I guess my main point is that Drag Queens are just run of the mill everyday people too. I mean there is a whole industry in Vegas and other places for it so it pays the bills and the people working is no different than the whole of society. And coming from a state where LA and NYC calls everyone hillbillies and if you dress feminine and pierce both ears your were called a sissy then you better do something to keep people from beating you up everyday. For me it began as hair metal, then when the band fell apart I stayed in Hollywood and not the good part and found a job working as a drag queen in a band and instead of lip synching it was actual music and we actually played and the singer actually sang. There was a lot of Vixen songs. Then when that fell through then I did the whole lip synch deal. Then I did a little escorting and so on. And one thing is that Drag Queens span all spectrums of society from straight to gay to closeted trans to out trans. The only way you will ever know is if you become close enough friend and talk intimately. Not in a sleeping together sort of way but secrets exposed to each other as friends with trust. So you really never know who a person is until they feel close enough to you to keep secret whatever they have in their closets hidden. And people change over time. But are they close enough to tell you when their preferences or orientations change?

Anyway that is why I said what I have here. My friend had no idea about trans women until we reconnected and I told him. I introduced him to one of my friends that I used to work with and she even moved to "hillbilly" country and they are happy dating so far. She was not full time trans either. Yet if they argue they both call me. She still isn't full time trans so when they go out it may be guy and guy or guy and girl. But her and I worked the together from the mid to late eighties and he and I grew up together from when I was fourteen and he was twelve. Just in the last five years I opened up to him. He is actually the only "family" that has ever visited me where I live now. I had a cousin call and ask me how to get to the Port of New Orleans so they could go on a cruise but never dropped by to visit coming or going. I let them live rent free on five acres for almost ten years while I paid property taxes and all. He and his wife got pissed and moved when I would not put the land up for them to get a double wide mobile home. So my point is you never know who someone is ever. It is the same with "us" too. You can never judge anyone until you are close enough that they trust you with their deepest secrets and trust them with yours.

So trans and drag may go hand in hand or not. You don't know, Hell I don't know other than what I have experienced working in that world. No one knows. So how can someone judge if a drag queen is trans or not? U have known a couple that were totally straight but could entertain in that capacity and make more per year than working in a factory or tending "normal" bars and so on. You just treat everyone with respect no matter what because you never really know who you friends or "family" is until it is too late. And you never know who you make friends with so always be open to friendships.

[Devlyn]

LOL Jenn,, I  was replying to another post which has since disappeared. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[Jenntrans]

LOL Jenn,, I  was replying to another post which has since disappeared. 

Hugs, Devlyn

Hugs back Girl. Why did the post disappear? What I say here or anywhere else expect to be on the "web" forever. That is just what we get for posting online.

But anyway not harm and no foul.

HMMM. Foul and fowl. I think I am gonna' cook Chicken tonight. Maybe some chicken tenders cut up and fried with General Tso's sauce and some rice. Thanks Devlyn you done made me hungry now.

I would love to have seen that post though.

If I ever offend then just tell me. Be blunt and tell me I am out of line then I can reply, explain and then we can go back and forth nicely and respectfully. Quote me and confront me. I have no problem ever with being confronted by something stupid I may have said. Hell I may even apologize after rethinking something stupid I may have said.

[CallMeKatie]

Jenntrans.

I posted the other post. I was drunk and in a stupid mood and it was dumb so I deleted it.

It definitely wasn't something you said

[Jenntrans]

Jenntrans.

I posted the other post. I was drunk and in a stupid mood and it was dumb so I deleted it.

It definitely wasn't something you said

LOL. Who has never done "tipsy typing" before? Who has never been on the "rag" before and in a piss poor mood? We all get pissy, moany and whiney sometimes even straight males. So don't feel so bad.

[Utterly Confused]

I believe drag is a form of art and self expression.  People can be drag queens (and kings) no matter what gender they identify as.  I know that as someone who is going to transition to male I still love the hyper femininity of drag and the expressionism that comes along with it. 

I know that trans men who are drag queens can not be taken seriously but there are people who will take it serious and you just have to find them and surround yourself with those positive people.