My daughter is not transgender she's a tomboy

[TomTuttle]

Tbh I was fairly happy to see an article that reminded people liberal enough to care about trans issues that having a gender nonconforming child is not the same as having a trans child. I would rather not have been made to worry about what gender I actually identify as as a kid.  The fact that there was the word tomboy and it was something other than a girl but also meant i didn't have to prove being a boy, was enough for me back then.

But now as a fully grown person I see an overlap between what I thought of in my head as "tomboy" with the trans spectrum. I sort of identified with it like it was an actual gender - I'm not a girl I'm a tomboy (I could switch that out for my previous less convincing mantra of I'm not a girl Im a boy). And I am always and will pobably always be unconfortable with people referring to me as a girl or seeing me in really gendered ways. Or catching myself in the mirror when I'm not expecting it. Dunno what that all means but there we are.

Anyway, there are tomboys who grow up to be feminine, there are tomboys who grow up to be butch women who love being women, there are tomboys who grow up awkwardly and boyishly like me (and probably should choose one of the other options), there are tomboys who grow up with a strong non-binary identity, there are tomboys who are actually transguys who transition to various extents. I prefer not getting into the complexities of gender with children. Just let them be for a bit and see how they choose to be.

[LizK]

I think the article that Susan provided was a good one...nice balanced arguement

[SiobhánF]

I think the article that Susan provided was a good one...nice balanced arguement

I agree! 

[Janes Groove]

I liked the Medium article better than the NY Times article.

The NY Times article reminded me of that Seinfeld episode  "The Outing." The one where whenever they talked about being gay they always followed with the joke, "not that there's anything wrong with it."   There is for me a discordant note that rings in my ear.

[LizK]

Hi Jane

I like your comment and know the program you speak of.... It made me think

"not that there's anything wrong with it."   

So remind me then why we are talking about it then?....

Liz

[LizK]

Sex is about who you go to bed with

Gender is about who you go to bed as

I have heard that quote so many tries I am not sure who to attribute it too.

[Miss Clara]

Elizabeth, I think you meant:

"Sexual orientation" is about who you go to bed with

[Dena]

I have heard that quote so many tries I am not sure who to attribute it too.

Most likely me but I got it from the Jenner special.
Sexual preference is who you want to go to bed with
Gender identity is who you want to go to bed as.

[AnamethatstartswithE]

So remind me then why we are talking about it then?....

Good question.

I finally had a chance to read the article today. I think part of this stems from something I remember from the 90s when being gay was becoming something that people actually thought about. Heterosexual people would actually feel somewhat annoyed and resentful that this was now something that they had to think about. I remember people who would have been in their twenties at the time feeling annoyed that if they were to go out to eat with a same sex friend that some people would look at them and try to figure out if they were gay. I think there might be something like that going on now, as trans people become more visible in society, more people will look at non-conforming people and wonder if they might be trans.

Though I must say that unless the author lives in a very progressive area I wouldn't think it would come up this often if there were nothing to it. Either the author is exaggerating or maybe her daughter is on the spectrum.

[LizK]

Most likely me but I got it from the Jenner special.
Sexual preference is who you want to go to bed with
Gender identity is who you want to go to bed as.

The saying was doing the meme circuit for awhile...I happily accept the corrected version..Thanks

Liz

[The Flying Lemur]

To throw some gasoline on this fire, things may not be as clear cut as they seem.  The author wrote an earlier piece about her daughter that indicates she may be more than just a tomboy.  I am not saying anything against tomboys.  My sister was one as are others I know.  In addition gender can be somewhat flexible for some especially while growing up.  While I agree with the assumed premise of the author that gender roles expectations are BS, I feel the medium article does a decent enough job of pointing out some of the nuance behind the statements made.

http://www.parenting.com/article/tomboy?cid=searchresult

Thanks for posting that, amberwaves.  The Parenting article does a better job of pointing out the mother's understandable anxieties, which adds some context to her insistence that her daughter is not trans.  Clearly, she doesn't want her daughter to be trans.  Who would?  "Statistically speaking, my child will face more discrimination and less access to basic goods and services!  Hooray!"  The Time article's weird focus on trans-ness makes more sense when you know that the author is haunted by the specter of what her daughter might face if she begins identifying full-time as male. 

The Time article has problems, but I think those ought to be laid more at the feet of the editors than at those of the author.  The author is writing about her own child, and no one looks at their kids with 100% clear vision.  There will always be hopes and fears coloring the image.  The editors, on the other hand, not only failed to detect the problematic subtext of the article (or did detect it and just didn't care), but also decided that a troubling article ought to go on the front page.  Most likely this is because, as the author of the ThinkProgress article points out, the public is interested in questioning the basic reality of transness, and what the public is interested in sells.   

[Paige]

Thinkprogress has a response...
Read more: https://thinkprogress.org/tomboy-article-transgender-8d398a1f0f32

From the Thinkprogress response:

"Strangio's concerns were validated by conservative responses to Davis's op-ed. Despite the author's support and affirmation for transgender youth, opponents of trans equality nevertheless saw her defense of her daughter as confirmation of the supposed dangers of respecting trans identities."

This is what I worried about with the NY Times piece.  I doubt it was the author's intention, but I could see this sort of interpretation coming a mile away.

From the Thinkprogress response:

"Like Strangio argued, just because some transgender people feel comfortable embracing some aspects of society's prescribed gender roles doesn't mean that transgender equality actually requires the reinforcement of a strict gender binary. It just means that trans people live in the same world as everybody else and aren't necessarily immune to society's gender expectations just because they're trans.

Davis may be frustrated that her daughter is often mistaken for transgender, but her daughter is also much freer to be who she is because of the progress made by transgender pioneers. It's intellectually lazy to blame transgender people for reinforcing gender roles when they are, in fact, at the forefront of breaking down the limitations on how anyone can express their gender."

These last two paragraphs hit the nail on the head for me.

Take care,
Paige

[Janes Groove]

So remind me then why we are talking about it then?....

Because the subtext of the article seems to be, quit asking my daughter if she's trans, cuz if y'do, she might just become trans, "not that there's anything wrong with that."

[Miss Clara]

By this definition, her daughter is transgender.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/transgender

The real kicker will come when her child reaches puberty.  Will her child react well to developing female secondary sex characteristics?  Will her child's brain respond favorably to elevating levels of estrogen?  I hope that her mother's fear of having a trans child doesn't interfere with the support that will be needed to successfully transition physically and socially. 

[LizK]

Because the subtext of the article seems to be, quit asking my daughter if she's trans, cuz if y'do, she might just become trans, "not that there's anything wrong with that."

Nicely put

[Gertrude]

Because the subtext of the article seems to be, quit asking my daughter if she's trans, cuz if y'do, she might just become trans, "not that there's anything wrong with that."

I've said it before, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.


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[Georgette]

Went to one of the local TG support groups last night, haven't been there in months.

We briefly discussed these articles.  I added that my mother may have been in the Trans spectrum because she was a (tomboy) when young.  So maybe I am not the 1st but the 2nd in the family.  We also discussed the many Gender identity vs Gender Roles and expectations being part of all this.

My mother didn't believe in strict gender roles or expectations.  My 3 brothers and I did a mix of gender expectations.

[TomTuttle]

 I don't think anyone is on the trans spectrum simply by merit of having been a tomboy when they were young. Being a tomboy is a good thing for most girls - it has you be a bit more outgoing and active. I find it almost irritating when grown, feminine women say "oh yes i was a tomboy" and start implying that it actually means something to them now like "oh really I'm just like a man" when all they mean is that they are not a total housewife - it means something to me now and i feel like their stealing a bit of me, being completely feminine but rambling on about these things like they have significance.

Also I'd like to say that i see there being almost no way to know if someone is really transgender as a kid, so i don't think this is worth arguing. Tbh i wouldn't know which way to go with the kid if i was this woman either.

[SiobhánF]

Point is to not make it a big deal, at this moment, with any kid. Let them tell you. That requires you to be available to them, emotionally, and support them in their quest to find their true self and where they fit in society.  A little guidance in how life works doesn't hurt, imo. Our role as parents is to prepare them for life, not gender expectations; that's for them to decide for themselves. If they don't know, then that's that. 

[MeghanMe]

I'm a bit confused.

First the author's son tells her he's a boy.

Then she writes an article misgendering him and describes forcing him to wear dresses and skirts that he doesn't want to wear ("refuses to" -- which means, what did you do to get him to wear them, exactly?).

Four years later she writes another article saying her son isn't trans, but a tomboy, and please everyone stop asking his pronoun. She pours on a bunch of sugar in the form of "let's accept alternate gender expression (as long as my child isn't trans)."

How is anyone seeing this as anything but horrifying and sad?