Did FFS just ruin my face?

[Miss Lux]

This has been a common problem of those who had v-line surgery in south korea... They always end up needling a mini facelift or thread lift to the point that it's in a form of a package surgery... Because there is less support structure underneath or the tissues were not reattached properly... That's why I decided not to go through the v- line surgery.... Go to realself.com there are many regrets and advice post v- line surgery/ jaw reduction surgery.....

[Jujubee]

This has been a common problem of those who had v-line surgery in south korea... They always end up needling a mini facelift or thread lift to the point that it's in a form of a package surgery... Because there is less support structure underneath or the tissues were not reattached properly... That's why I decided not to go through the v- line surgery.... Go to realself.com there are many regrets and advice post v- line surgery/ jaw reduction surgery.....

Thanks for that info, Miss Lux! Now I know why I need a mini facelift!!

[GlobalPessimum]

This has been a common problem of those who had v-line surgery in south korea... They always end up needling a mini facelift or thread lift to the point that it's in a form of a package surgery... Because there is less support structure underneath or the tissues were not reattached properly... That's why I decided not to go through the v- line surgery.... Go to realself.com there are many regrets and advice post v- line surgery/ jaw reduction surgery.....

I've checked out realself before posting here. Most people who get V-line surgery in South Korea have a very different face than mine so they're not a very good model for my situation.

Additionally, I couldn't find any good pictures of sagging skin after that sort of surgery that looked anything like my problem, so I'm still unsure how common it is.

[anjaq]

I read about this several times that if the jaw and chin is modified a lot, a lifting is needed. Some surgeons offer to do it right away or with some time delay after the initial surgery - I think often it is not included in the original quotation though. It makes sense to wait for 6-9 months though as surgeons say that swelling can last that long. I have now swelling at the legs from liposuction and its not really anywhere close to be gone at over 2 months - I am told it also takes 6 months!

[Doreen]

I too had FFS back on feb 14 with Dr. Cardenas... he (strongly) encouraged a minor facelift in addition to the other ffs procedures.. Note he did NOT think I needed some things I thought I needed, but I still opted to get some (in particular jaw recountouring) so I am pretty sure it wasn't just up-selling on his part.

That beings said, I noticed a significant difference after the facelift.  It took literally 10-20 years off my face in addition to my face being much more feminine.  The responding posts are correct in that it feminizes, it does NOT make female.  The initial canvas is a tremendous help in dictating what the final result (after its all settled down) will be.

I'm still healing myself, and my forehead and jawline still feel numb'ish.  I am also getting the fun 'pins and needles' when if feels like something is stabbing you with a small ice pick.  Nerves regrowing is terribly fun isn't it.

I don't post pictures online, but am willing to email them privately, just have to ask me.  All in all the way I see it... You'll never be 100% happy.  If the jowls are a concern, there are additional (I know, right???!) options for this later when most of the healing is done.  If the surgeon did a lot of chin work, its sad he didn't consider a facelift at the same time because it WILL leave additional skin once bone has been removed as the structural framework.. the skin doesn't mystically vanish with the bone, and will sag a bit. 

I also experienced the results of skin sagging from drainage, in particular right around the angle of the mandible, it was BAD for a while, but has finally tightened up. (Dr. Cardenas' assistant withdrew a full needle of accumulated blood from both areas in my jawline).   My initial pics 2 weeks later the skin around the jaw was yellowed & saggy, and ugly as sin.

Be patient... in 6 months to a year review additional options.  And remember, we are our own worst critic.   
Hope this helps.

[anjaq]

I lost 35 kilos 2 years ago and it worked surprisingly well - the skin did shrink with it to a large degree. I still have a bit of sagging at the neck and belly and butt, but not as bad as I was fearing when loosing that much. So the skin can shrink and tighten. I took a lot of supplements with it and watched to eat low in sugars. But to a large degree it is luck and time.

[Dani]

From the picture you posted and being only 2 months, I think you have a really good result.

Yes it takes about 6 months until the face heals and swelling goes down. I had my surgery about 3 months ago and I am still a bit swollen in the nose and neck area. I may need some additional work, but I am 67 years old and just about everyone my age can benefit from a little additional work

[Tammy Jade]

Look I can't not comment about FFS having not had it...

But I can comment from the perspective of someone who had a full jaw/chin reconstruction for medical reasons.

I was also really worried after I came back from the surgery I looked different and there was swelling bloating and all sorts of nasty.

It took my face a good 6 months before I couldn't see swelling and at least that long for the skin to find it's new normal.

All in all plus some sight nerve damage my recovery probably took 6-8 months before I both adjusted to my new look and everything settled down.

Not to say your concern isn't warranted but healing can take quite some time.


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[Jujubee]

Having looked at Dr Z'snwork in his site it is amazing and dramatic. Even the forehead work for some is quite dramatic. I didn't think that was possible due to it being type I. Anyone have any insight on this? Thx

[jentay1367]

Having looked at Dr Z'snwork in his site it is amazing and dramatic. Even the forehead work for some is quite dramatic. I didn't think that was possible due to it being type I. Anyone have any insight on this? Thx

Go to his website and read about his procedures. Particularly brow bossing. He maintains the skull is much thicker than most x-rays divulge. That too much overexposure with x-rays tend to make the sinus bone appear much thinner than it actually is. His work with burring would bear that out. I''m using him in a couple of weeks. I specifically picked him because of his non-invasive techniques. I have no desire for a lifetime of sinus issues. I know it isn't always the case, but I'm not willing to take the gamble. I'll get what I get.

[Jujubee]

Go to his website and read about his procedures. Particularly brow bossing. He maintains the skull is much thicker than most x-rays divulge. That too much overexposure with x-rays tend to make the sinus bone appear much thinner than it actually is. His work with burring would bear that out. I''m using him in a couple of weeks. I specifically picked him because of his non-invasive techniques. I have no desire for a lifetime of sinus issues. I know it isn't always the case, but I'm not willing to take the gamble. I'll get what I get.

I hear you. The proof is in his amazing results. Good for you and I wish all the best!! JuJu

[jentay1367]

Thanks Sweetie, to say I'm excited is a massive understatement. I appreciate your well wishes!

[GlobalPessimum]

Thank you ladies for your replies. I haven't checked back here for a while so I just got to see them.

Doreen- thank you for volunteering to share your pictures, I really appreciate it. I think I understand how beneficial a facelift can be and I figured I may have to consider one at some point. The thing is, I definitely didn't feel it was needed yet, until I had my FFS. The other problem is that I asked my surgeon to make me a proposal for a facelift and it would cost me more than half what my FFS cost and I just can't afford that right now. So I'm stuck with what I got for the time being. Unless of course I go to someone a lot cheaper, risking even worse results.

To be honest, I just don't want to have another surgery, ever. I'm fed up with people cutting me up with knives and stitching me back up and stapling bits of me shut. And if that means I'm stuck with droopy flesh for the long term- well, I'll just have to learn to suck it up.

Tammy Jade- thanks. I'll try to keep my hopes up for the next year or so. I can tell my muscles and nerves are definitely still healing so there may also be some swelling still left. I really doubt it, but, who knows. Hope dies last.

I hope you've long since recovered from your opetations.

Jentay - All the best of luck with your surgery and thank you for your support here.

[Ashley3]

I read about this several times that if the jaw and chin is modified a lot, a lifting is needed. ...

I too had FFS ... with Dr. Cardenas... he (strongly) encouraged a minor facelift in addition to the other ffs procedures. ...

This is my understanding as well. (i.e., web search: facelift site:virtualffs.co.uk) Reducing the chin/jaw size reduces the surface area for existing skin which immediately post-OP is hidden by swelling. I think, depending on the patient, healing will tighten the skin up somewhat but that patients should generally be prepared to accept looser skin there if not doing anything specific about it.

Generally speaking I feel any proposal for chin/jaw work should be presented to the patient with the notion they may have looser or sagging skin or a need for skin-tightening procedures after FFS for the most optimum results... assuming nothing is done at the same time as FFS. 

I recently had chin reduction surgery and my surgeon was very direct about this, including the fact that post-OP swelling can hide the expected looseness. My pre-OP starting point had some jowl'ing where immediately post-OP sure enough swelling hid even those pre-OP jowls LoL...  ( three cheers for swelling  )  ... as swelling subsided my jowls returned and I'd say they are in fact slightly looser... no surprises since I expected that.

I hope one day to tighten it up but things need to fully heal and in the meantime I'm enjoying finding ways to make it work, to enjoy what is very positive about the procedures performed.

Side tip... immediately post-OP I made an appointment at a Sephora to get a lesson to help learn optimum post-OP makeup tips including contouring... I wouldn't underestimate the value of checking in now and then with a Sephora-like place for a makeup lesson. You can express concerns and ask "What are my options?" They are quite talented. I tend to like light makeup/foundation routines so I asked, "What's a good day routine to minimize this/that etc?" I got very helpful input.

I sort of feel none of this stuff is perfect, it seems more about trade offs. I feel more successful in all this when I can take the imperfections with stride and appreciate what is positive about the various procedures... and overall how far I've come... considering my starting point, I have no complaints and am in fact appreciative.

You actually seem to be resilient with an ability to take things in stride so kudos for that. You are also not far post-OP so it's understandable that skin-tightening isn't something you're anxious to jump into... giving things time to heal will let you see how things truly settle and you may feel up to something at that future date.

Also, for skin-tightening, I don't think a maxillofacial FFS surgeon is required for that... it's not boney work... you probably want to go to someone who is excellent with skin tightening and, I can't say, but maybe whoever that is is less costly than a maxillofacial FFS surgeon doing the same.

I agree with what others have pointed out... the pictures you posted indicate you have great skin and facial features and giving things time to heal is wise.

[Debra]

What's weird is I didn't have any lower face work done and I have some jowelyness happening at my jawline.

I think it was there before but wasn't as noticable before or something? I've heard face lift or certain fillers as fixes......maybe in another decade I'll worry about that.

[Justarandomname]

Have you looked into coolsculpting?  It supposed to be a non invasive fat freezing/burning procedure with little to no down time.  I have been looking into it myself after I get my ffs done next month for my chin as I have a little bit that doesn't go away no matter how thin I get.  If it's skin or residual swelling and not fat deposits, I'm not sure what would help aside for a face or neck lift.

[Debra]

Have you looked into coolsculpting?  It supposed to be a non invasive fat freezing/burning procedure with little to no down time.  I have been looking into it myself after I get my ffs done next month for my chin as I have a little bit that doesn't go away no matter how thin I get.  If it's skin or residual swelling and not fat deposits, I'm not sure what would help aside for a face or neck lift.

I've done a lot of research on coolsculpting. Not sure it's allowed on the face either. Your skin can be numb for months potentially.

[Ashley3]

... I recently had chin reduction surgery... My pre-OP starting point had some jowl'ing where immediately post-OP sure enough swelling hid even those pre-OP jowls LoL...  ( three cheers for swelling  )  ... as swelling subsided my jowls returned and I'd say they are in fact slightly looser... no surprises since I expected that. ...

Given the discussion of this thread, I've been looking more carefully at my jowls to try to zero in more clearly on how much additional post-OP jowl'ing I see... I have to say, looked at them today/yesterday... they seem like the same size jowls as pre-OP. I don't see much if any difference. I'm wondering if there's some slight skin tightening happening from healing.

It also caused me to ask if I've changed any facial treatments...

I recently added a twice daily application of Environ Retinol 1 which I apply to my face. This is supposed to be super stuff... not sure if it would reduce jowls but I mention it fwiw.

I also recently added a morning/evening facial cleansing routine (before using Retinol) where I use a special exfoliation wash cloth, rotating gently with Cetaphil cleanser (it's inexpensive but i hear decent facial skin cleanser).

So I think there are 4 things I'm generally doing

• Morning/evening Cetaphil gently rotating w/exfoliation cloth.
• Morning/evening Environ Retinol 1 on the face, applied with gently rotating fingers.
• Some mornings... a day makeup routine largely based on a Sephora custom makeover which requires a $50 purchase so it's free but you have to buy $50 of product. I've gone to free/paid makeovers over the years... I find stopping in now and then helps to learn new seasonal things given my current skin, season, things i may be going through such surgery recovery and all that. For example, I recently learned about Erase Paste for bruising but then discovered how it can be used to light dark areas on a regular basis. It's great stuff! Anyway, my current makeup routine is very light coverage using a beauty blender w/light contouring. It really makes a nice difference but I'm okay without it too... definitely more passing with.

[Wednesday]

Some considerations so far:

- Skin sagging depends A LOT on your type of skin (regardless your age). Mine is very prone to sagging too (it has been that way since my late teens). And yes, I know, it's really bad luck. However, it may recover if not fully at least to an extent, just needs time (quite a few months).

- Retin-A (tretinoin) cream works wonders when it comes to tightening the skin (collagen stimulation) and boosting its regeneration plus its a cheap product.

- Professional skin rollers (microneedling) also work pretty nice.

- Thread liftings (even though the results last just for 2 years) are almost as effective as surgical liftings, and (at least here) prices start at around 600$.

- As a last resort, surgical liftings are a pretty common plastic procedure so you don't really need a FFS specialist in order to get good results. Don't be fooled, surgery outcomes mostly depend on patients set-up (ability to heal, type of skin, bone structure, amount of tissue, starting point) and on the limitations of current surgical techniques.

[GlobalPessimum]

I know about tretinoin but I thought it was only good for wrinkles, no? I'm not even sure if stimulating collagen will really tighten the skin, if it's hanging loose. I mean, I'm not a dermatologist so I have absolutely no idea how all that works.

According to my surgeon my skin is not very elastic at all. I'm guessing that means it won't just pull itself into shape as easily, or at all. But I also don't have many wrinkles, so I guess that's... what? Good collagen production?

I mean, I'm so clueless about all this dermatology stuff you might tell me it's little fairies under the skin pulling it tight and I could believe it.