My 22 hour mass clearing Electrolysis experience with "Precision Hair Removal an

[Laurie]

Hi Lisa,

I did see you sign your name as Lisa but since it was the first time I ever saw it I wasn't sure I should use it.  (I did put it on my user name vs real name cheat sheet though) I'm glad to see you tell liz it was okay to begin using it.

So hereafter you shall be known as Lisa as in Leaning Tower of Pisa!  yeah that works. (no idea what the Moni will come up with)
  22 work hours zapping hairs still boggles the mind.

Hugs,
   Laurie

[jentay1367]

It would boggle it, if I had one    Thanks for the props on the name. I usd to sign most of my missives with my name, but no matter what I did, it wouldn't stick. So I decided to just get vocal about it. You guys can call me whatever you like, but I wanted everyone to know my name isn't   "Jentay"    

[Daisy Jane]

I've only recently started thinking about getting started on electrolysis. This sounds preferable to weekly appointments.

[LizK]

Hey Liz, No problem on the name. Everyone does it. Just thought I'd start letting everyone know. I definitely think it's a current thing. My original told me she couldn't crank it up cuz' my skin was to sensitive. Well, that's fine, but I was getting very tired and frustrated seeing what appeared to be everything coming back in a few weeks time. The key I think is having the mastery and equipment to turn the machine up high enough to kill the hair and not the patient or the dermis. It seems to me that many of the practitioners are simply paranoid to raise the current. They don't want to harm you or your skin or frankly....get sued. The most frustrating thing about this whole procedure is there's no baseline or way to substantiate in any substantive way that anything is being accomplished. It allows people who have no skill at this kind of thing to continue doing their thing with impunity. I mean, if somebody paints your house, you can immediately look at it and know it was done correctly to some certain degree. Not with electro. So you may have a bad tech, who just keeps pounding away at you and taking your money. It truly sucks. I was hearing stories of women with 500 hours in? Really, are we all so different? Something else is at play here. That was my purpose of posting this. I wanted to give frustrated women the option to get this horrific job moving along in a meaningful way. Emtying someones wallet does not seem to be the key to a smooth face. I don't know about anywhere else, but here in the U.S., there needs to be substantially more oversight.  Below, I've posted a link to a place in Dallas, TX. that does the same thing as the place I went to with comparable costs...just another option for the gals that are looking for alternatives.

www.electrology3000.com/

Hi Lisa

I think I have probably said this before but my Electrolysis tech will not compromise treatment for pain. She is of the belief that you need to deal with the pain adequately so the procedure can be done in an effective and timely manner. When you consider this, what other medical procedure would you have where they compromise the procedures effectiveness because of pain issues normally they will do the procedure that needs to be done and provide what they consider adequate pain relief through out....From everything I have been reading from other members it would seem the number of hours that it takes varies hugely with the exception of places like Studio 3000 where 4 to 5 visits for a heavy beard see you cleared. Each of those appointments won't be 8 hrs and be decreasing amounts of time but even if we say 5 x 8 hr sessions that is still only 40 hours, lets go double  that and call it 10 x 8 hrs sessions(never heard of anyone needing it but still could be true that is still a clearance in 80 hours....most here are talking about having done more than this already and still not being finished.

Pain Control, Adequate current for the job and Technician Skill  seem to be the big factor and the skill in determining when a current is high enough to take the hair without resistance, balanced out with skin damage.

How many more hours will you need to complete the job based on this last experience?

 

[jentay1367]

We seem to be of the same mind as to how this whole process plays out. I don't know, Liz. In a perfect world? I'd think another 50 hours would see me completely finished. That's IF I have these people do it.  as little as 30 but I'm not going to get myself talked into that. Anyone else....i.e. every little mickey mouse operator with a machine that calls themselves an electrologist?, who the hell knows. I literally see some of these places as houses of torture with no end to to the fun.  I think much of what we read about in terms of 300, 400 and 500 hour odyssey's come from women who have been forced to deal with incompetency. And frankly, it appears to be rampant. As I said, it's just so hard to know if you're dealing with someone that knows what they're doing. I suspect many of the operator's don't know that they don't know what they're doing. So my hope is that late this summer, I'll hide like a mushroom for a few weeks and go back up and let her have at me again. I'm just so happy I found her.

[LizK]

I can vouch for the incompetent tech I had probable 12 hours with her before I had enough and went back to my original which in actual fact works out cheaper because I can have my injections for free...so with the other tech at 120 per hour I had to pay between $50-100 for the injections So at best it was $170 per hour and worst $220...Now it is a straight $180 and I have free injections from my Gyne

[jentay1367]

Yes....to all you pointed out. Of course, we have to think these things through and make effective decisions for ourselves. Sometimes, as an old American maxim states, you can't see the forest for the trees. So we waste money and time and our precious emotional equity.
      I hope regardless of whether anyone uses the services I've spoken of here, that this at least triggers an epiphany in some woman who may otherwise go on like you and I did early on in our journeys. Because as we've discussed, It appears to be much more common than you'd think.  Best to you, Liz!             Lisa

[Miss Clara]

As Lisa mentioned I had my facial hair removed by Irina Cardos.  She is a wonder! 

I first went to the Zukowski Center for Plastic Surgery for volume hair removal in November 2014.  My first full face & neck clearing took 32 hours over two consecutive days!  Irina was a contract electrologist at that time.  She worked the right side of my face while the proprietor did the left side.  My experience was identical to yours, Lisa.  Lidocaine-epinephine injections to numb the face under an IV sedative.  My face resembled a squirrel with cheeks filled with acorns at the end of the first day.  I was not looking forward to going back for day two!

I do have a few observations that may be of interest...

I had four full face clearings there 6 weeks apart.  The results were amazing, and I too estimated very high initial kill rates.  Unfortunately, for me, those high rates dropped off considerably with each successive session.  I don't know why.  It might have to do with the high beard density in the beginning where treating a follicle also has an effect on its close neighbors.  I was projecting complete hair removal in 100 hours.  It didn't turn out that way.

There's something else I noticed.  My right side (the one that Irina always worked on for those first four volume treatments) saw a better result than my left side.  A friend who was going there concurrently had the same experience.  It was very obvious to me after the 4th clearing that Irina was the more skilled electrologist.  To this day, my right side is nearly hairless while the left side has a lot of fine, colorless peach fuzz some of which still grows out and has to be plucked.  The abilities of the practitioner is the most important factor in the overall results you will experience.

What's odd, however, is that if you don't get a good kill rate on those first couple of volume hair removal sessions, it takes so much more effort to get a kill in later sessions.  That may be because the hair density is greatly reduced, so the cross-kill effect is nonexistent.

I say this because for all the subsequent full face clearings (nos. 5 - 25) I chose to have only Irina work on me.  Each of those twenty sessions took Irina, working alone, 5 to 6 hours to complete with more and more of each session using the more time consuming Blend modality instead of Flash thermolysis to minimize the cumulative damage to the dermal skin layer which is unavoidable to some degree.   

It's been 7 months since my last electrolysis session after a total of 225 hours of treatment.  I will most likely see Irina for some cleanup treatment on the left side.  (sigh)  Of all the transition medical procedures that I've endured in my transition, facial hair removal has been the most challenging in terms of travel, time, pain, and cost. 

[jentay1367]

Hi Clara,
    Thank you so much for your reply! I'm curious if you don't mind me asking, how long after your first session with Irina did it take before you noticed the hair growing back. Because I'm nearly the 6 weeks out and frankly, I don't think there's 4 hours work on the entirety of my face. Of real interest is that my neck and chin which were barely touched by my previous electrologists 88 hours of effort. I'm interested because I have remained almost 90 percent clear and the places where I had the most extensive work by previous tech's seem to be the places I'm seeing the higher density regrowth. Almost as if the previous electrologist damaged the follicle and now it's more difficult to kill, if that makes any sense at all. I also remember, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you had previously stated that you had a very dense beard with thick individual hairs. Could that have contributed to the extensive amount of clearings required? I remember your pictures and you look Scandinavian in descent and those folks seem to have very thick facial hair, generally speaking.
    At any rate, it's so nice to hear from you and I very much appreciate your taking time to post in this thread. Lisa

[Miss Clara]

Hi Clara,
    Thank you so much for your reply! I'm curious if you don't mind me asking, how long after your first session with Irina did it take before you noticed the hair growing back. Because I'm nearly the 6 weeks out and frankly, I don't think there's 4 hours work on the entirety of my face. Of real interest is that my neck and chin which were barely touched by previous electrologists, have remained almost 90 percent clear and the places where I had the most extensive work seem to be the places I'm seeing the higher density regrowth. Almost as if the previous electrologist damaged the follicle and now it's more difficult to kill if that makes any sense. At any rate, it's so nice to hear from you and I very much appreciate your taking time to post in this thread. Lisa

It took 5 weeks for my face to feel fully healed after that first 32 hour clearing.  If I remember correctly, there was very little hair growing back until week five.  Much of the hair was what they called "baby hair".  It was nearly invisible, so growing out my hair for the 2nd session was not as embarrassing as for the first session.  My second and third sessions took 17 hours to fully clear, and my fourth took 14 hours.  That was very discouraging to say the least.  No. 5 took just 5 hours and I began to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Still, it took another 19 clearings to remove all but the last bit of hair. Mainly the stubborn hair on the left side of my face.    Grrrrrr! 

Your observation about the previously treated hair seems to corroborate my experience with the hair on my left side which was so hard to kill after having been ineffectively treated during those first couple of clearings. 

The other thing I'll say is that results vary from person to person.  Irina will tell you the same.  Some people have follicles that are weak and are killed with one or two treatments.  Others, like me, have very robust follicles that are the devil to kill. 

I also will mention that Irina has hired all of her assistants.  She has high standards and expects her people to meet them.  To that end, she spends plenty of time honing their skills to measure up to those standards.  I have never known a more conscientious, hard working, compassionate, and personable person.

[LizK]

Clara have you any idea what it is that really makes the difference between each Tech? is it their ability to apply correct current?, insert the probe?, actual hair selection or a combination of those?(these are really rhetorical) I was thinking if there was one good indicator that could be used to say this electrologist is more likely to be better than this one because they use X method...for example

Post Treatment you could say that "You should not feel any tugging or pulling sensation when a hair is taken...ever" This is an indication of poor technique but too late if you have already had the treatment. The follicle damage is already done.

What would be better if we could work out beforehand what types of questions we should be asking to find out if we are going to get a good result because good technique is used...I hope that makes sense.

[jentay1367]

What would be better if we could work out beforehand what types of questions we should be asking to find out if we are going to get a good result because good technique is used...I hope that makes sense.

Unfortunately, I think that's part of the problem Liz. A bad tech simply doesn't know what they don't know. So they may think they're good and in fact be complete rubbish. It adds to the frustration, to be sure.

[jentay1367]

It took 5 weeks for my face to feel fully healed after that first 32 hour clearing.  If I remember correctly, there was very little hair growing back until week five.  Much of the hair was what they called "baby hair".  It was nearly invisible, so growing out my hair for the 2nd session was not as embarrassing as for the first session.  My second and third sessions took 17 hours to fully clear, and my fourth took 14 hours.  That was very discouraging to say the least.  No. 5 took just 5 hours and I began to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Still, it took another 19 clearings to remove all but the last bit of hair. Mainly the stubborn hair on the left side of my face.    Grrrrrr! 

Your observation about the previously treated hair seems to corroborate my experience with the hair on my left side which was so hard to kill after having been ineffectively treated during those first couple of clearings. 

The other thing I'll say is that results vary from person to person.  Irina will tell you the same.  Some people have follicles that are weak and are killed with one or two treatments.  Others, like me, have very robust follicles that are the devil to kill. 

I also will mention that Irina has hired all of her assistants.  She has high standards and expects her people to meet them.  To that end, she spends plenty of time honing their skills to measure up to those standards.  I have never known a more conscientious, hard working, compassionate, and personable person.

Again, thank you very much Clara. That's very elucidating and helps me immensely. You can't imagine how much I appreciate your time. And Irina? I agree with everything you said. She is a wonder. She made an otherwise anxiety producing experience, pleasurable. She's a wonderful woman and I felt as though I was absolutely in the very best of hands. All my best, Lisa

[Miss Clara]

Clara have you any idea what it is that really makes the difference between each Tech? is it their ability to apply correct current?, insert the probe?, actual hair selection or a combination of those?(these are really rhetorical) I was thinking if there was one good indicator that could be used to say this electrologist is more likely to be better than this one because they use X method...for example

Post Treatment you could say that "You should not feel any tugging or pulling sensation when a hair is taken...ever" This is an indication of poor technique but too late if you have already had the treatment. The follicle damage is already done.

What would be better if we could work out beforehand what types of questions we should be asking to find out if we are going to get a good result because good technique is used...I hope that makes sense.

That's a hard question, Liz.  I doubt that I can offer a satisfactory answer.  The one thing that I really appreciated about Irina Cardos was her willingness to listen to me and work with me to improve the chances of a good outcome.  She has the ability to alter her methods and approach to suit the patient's unique circumstances.  There are so many variables at play.  The best electrologists seem to be able to make appropriate adjustments in technique within a session and between sessions.   Every patient presents a unique challenge.  Pain tolerance, the dryness of the skin, hair thickness and depth, power level, modality, probe type and size, number of pulses, timing, illumination, touch and visual feedback, and that all important intuitive quality that only comes with experience.  Electrolysis is an art.