Why do men face so much sexism in society today?

[Wednesday]

Darling, I have invested in seeding nanotechnology as it relates to cosmetics and delivering Stem cells, herbal and synthetic infusion to rebuild the telomete lovally. Look up this very exciting development that will shake mankind lifespan soon.

Plus my family lifespan generally is well over 100 years. Plus I was a really hot looking male haha

Jesus, I bet you was!

I read time ago about telomer regeneration through transgenically modified viruses (if I can remember correctly) but  thought if viable this will be available in 20 years at best.

[warlockmaker]

My apologies for momentarily highjacking this topic.

Hi Wednesday, Bill Andrews a member of the Nobel prize team in 2008 for identifying that the length of the  telomere determines the lifespan for human. He is developing a way to directly affect the gene manufactory telomere, and extending its length and thus not only maintaining our age but to reverse the process. He is talking about making this possible later this year for human trials. Yes, it involves injecting a virus and taking antimunity injections 2 weeks before.

However, today many top range beauty creams use nanotechnology to infuse herbal and synthetic products deep into our skin and reverse the telomere aging in the deep skin. Of course this is not permanant and requires regular use to maintain. Please look up "Defytime" in the internet.The best cream I have ever used but its price is unbelievable. Beauty at my age does not come cheap, and I exrecise every day and run 12 miles a week at 8min 30sec per mile pace. I wish it was easier ......

[Wednesday]

Yay! I'm really looking forward this technology to be available at reasonable prices!

Holly molly, I just checked Defytime, but the price is ridiculously high lol.

I used to train a lot, medium distance running ( my pace was a little slower ) and road cycling, but I gave up because I bulkied up a bit (lol sometimes I get too enthusiastic) when my goal was to be skinnier. Just thinking about training again makes me feel tired haha

> End of topic hijack

[Dayta]

But i do think that it pretty much awnsers "Why do men face so much sexism in society today?" its becaus people care more about woman then men and if you say that men also have problems just like woman you just get talked down to that your wrong that men dont face sexism and that pretty much all their problems are caused by other men or themselfs.

Maybe it's more productive to rephrase this question to something more like: "why does a man have to face certain constraints on his ability to express emotions and sensitivity?"  This is a very sincere and powerful question to pose.  Part of the answer is that our social gender binary construction allows men many favors, but punishes them for violating this constraint.  I am extremely sympathetic to this constraint on men.  It's honestly one of the reasons I began to question my own gender identity in the first place.  The reason that this discussion seems to degrade, from your perspective, is that women reading this compare it to the constraints on women in our society and feel that it pales in the comparison.  I'm sure that many people empathize with the struggles of men.  But in return, those same people ought to empathize with the struggles of women. 

By the way, recognizing that a population is oppressed, and naming and calling out their oppressors is not the same as "wanting to be the victim."

Erin

[tgchar21]

Re: Circumcision on a transgender forum - Missing the foreskin can, and often does, have a negative impact on the outcome of MTF GCS (so it is something that we should care about). (That's not saying that a circumcised transwoman cannot have a successful GCS - just that it probably won't be quite as good as if her foreskin hadn't been removed, and it also increases the chances of skin needed from elsewhere.)

[Wednesday]

Re: Circumcision on a transgender forum - Missing the foreskin can, and often does, have a negative impact on the outcome of MTF GCS (so it is something that we should care about). (That's not saying that a circumcised transwoman cannot have a successful GCS - just that it probably won't be quite as good as if her foreskin hadn't been removed, and it also increases the chances of skin needed from elsewhere.)

Lol nice point

[JMJW]

Basically because most of the people at the top in terms of wealth and political power in the West are men, the conclusion made by feminists is that men are privileged and this basically results in no one giving a crap about the men at the bottom of society. Meaning the massive homeless population, the incarcerated, the poor, mentally ill. Alot of them will say that men's problems are down to not sharing emotions or something. Truth is nobody cares about men's emotions. Women don't care, other men don't care. The answer is man up and stop being a wimp. Every man learns this right down to his subconscious, and so learns to be reserved with feelings. I don't consider myself a man  but I'm male socialized and I haven't cried in 16 years and counting. Make of that what you will. But somehow I doubt I have disdain for femininity.   

Oh and PS, saying stuff like "Men go out at night more"  in response to "Men are murdered more often than women" is no different to responding "Women dress more trashy" to "Women are raped more than men". Both highly offensive victim blaming. So maybe be more careful in what you say before asserting that men experience no sexism.

[SailorMars1994]

intresting responses....

[TomTuttle]

Basically because most of the people at the top in terms of wealth and political power in the West are men, the conclusion made by feminists is that men are privileged and this basically results in no one giving a crap about the men at the bottom of society. Meaning the massive homeless population, the incarcerated, the poor, mentally ill. Alot of them will say that men's problems are down to not sharing emotions or something. Truth is nobody cares about men's emotions. Women don't care, other men don't care. The answer is man up and stop being a wimp. Every man learns this right down to his subconscious, and so learns to be reserved with feelings. I don't consider myself a man  but I'm male socialized and I haven't cried in 16 years and counting. Make of that what you will. But somehow I doubt I have disdain for femininity.   

Oh and PS, saying stuff like "Men go out at night more"  in response to "Men are murdered more often than women" is no different to responding "Women dress more trashy" to "Women are raped more than men". Both highly offensive victim blaming. So maybe be more careful in what you say before asserting that men experience no sexism.

You are afraid to cry because of male socialisation based on unrealistic standards of masculinity, which are usually more enforced by men than women. Men are the ones that will beat you up for being a sissy. So it's not sexism, its the brutality of the patriarchy you're feeling there. And to say that people don't care about the incarcerated and the poor because they also care about women's issues is very short-sighted. As I've said before you can care about men's issues and womens issues at the same time just like you can care about the treatment of animals and human rights at the same time. Men are priveleged in the oppurtunities and respect they receive compared to women of a similar class, race etc as them. If you are a homeless man you are less privelaged than a man who is a ceo, and although a woman who is a ceo may have a harder time than the male ceo she is far more priveleged than the homeless man. That's logical.

Men are murdered more often than women. And this, yes, is partly because they put themselves in dangerous situations more because they are not taught constant oppressive fear and hyperawareness of their weaknesses like those socialised female are. In terms of combat deaths etc that is also because they are more easily allowed to put themselves into the dangerous situation that is the armed forces, which is a pretty sexist place, understandably because of the history of it only being men for a long time. But all of this doesn't mean I have no sympathy for men being murdered. Simply that problems that they have doesn't negate the fact that they hold almost all crucial positions of power in the world (which is the definition of a patriachy, shockingly), and that they do not respect women or people who display feminity in the same way they respect other men, and this causes problems for women. Over all, men have more oppurtunity.

[JMJW]

You are afraid to cry because of male socialisation based on unrealistic standards of masculinity, which are usually more enforced by men than women.

Firstly, being afraid to, implies choice, when I said what men learn - that nobody cares, goes right down to the subconscious. I physically cannot emotionally cry even if I wanted to. I know that's probably hard to understand for someone who started out with an estrogen based endocrine system. Second of all your conclusions contain middle class privilege. Crying with all that talking and therapy is a luxury. It doesn't help you eat the next day or pay your bills.

If it was within my choice to cry, look a few inches to the side to my avatar. I'm perfectly happy and able to go outside dressed like that. What makes you think I care about living up to unrealistic standards of masculinity enough to choose not to cry?   

Men are the ones that will beat you up for being a sissy. So it's not sexism, its the brutality of the patriarchy you're feeling there.

If men will beat you up, women are the ones who will just cut down your self esteem with a few choice words. As a general rule, men bully physically, women bully psychologically.
So they aren't receptive to sissies either. If they were, people socialized male would be able to share emotions with women more. Not the case. If anything men share emotions with women even less than with other men. Which is what has led to feminists saying men don't talk about their problems.   

And to say that people don't care about the incarcerated and the poor because they also care about women's issues is very short-sighted.

The "also" is incorrect so it's beginning from a false premise. They only care about women's issues. In fact they're talking about abolishing womens prisons altogether. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10015766/Isnt-it-time-to-abolish-most-womens-prisons.html

Yet they're still more than happy to pack male prisons to the rafters because of drug offences.

Also the suicide gap doesn't close in more feminist countries. In Sweden it's still about 3x more male suicides than women.


"As I've said before you can care about men's issues and womens issues at the same time "

You can, but people don't. Male Privilege automatically always brings the conversation back to women as it phrases women as more needy and in need of resources and attention at any given time. Leading people to the magical thinking of if women are helped enough, men's issues will disappear.

Men are murdered more often than women. And this, yes, is partly because they put themselves in dangerous situations more because they are not taught constant oppressive fear and hyperawareness of their weaknesses like those socialised female are.

So what, you're saying men are leading the killers on by going out at night? Not sexist at all. 

  Simply that problems that they have doesn't negate the fact that they hold almost all crucial positions of power in the world (which is the definition of a patriachy, shockingly),

But they're voted in by women in the west, who in the west are the voting majority.

and that they do not respect women or people who display feminity in the same way they respect other men, and this causes problems for women. Over all, men have more oppurtunity.

The National Organization for Women favoured Obama over Hilary and Trump was voted in a great deal in part due to the female vote. Again, if women got behind a female candidate, the male vote cannot stop it.

As for more opportunity, men are out educated 2 to 1 as I'm sure you know, and women statistically out earn men until they reach age 40, where because of pregnancy, men overtake.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3214854/Pay-gap-Women-earn-men-till-40s-20-woman-paid-men-age-group-decade.html

Now there is a level, an upper, highest level of wealth that women seem to struggle to enter. However more women are entering this bracket over time which is unsurprising as it can't happen overnight without huge amounts of affirmative action. 

[TomTuttle]

Even though you now present as a woman, crying was still something you may have been socialised out of. For me though, I also never cry in front of people never have, never will, hate it. Was socialised female. And I'm definitely not middle calss enough to expect people to therapise me, or to be able to pay for therapy. Tbh I don't ever want to talk to people when I'm upset. I'm not glorifying crying just presenting one possible argument.

Most feminine guys I know actually find very supportive female friendship groups. Yes, some women are bitches but the fact that they usually find themselves comfortably socialising with women and less so with men makes me feel that women are definitely less harsh over all on these issues.

I feel like a lot of people online have some crazy view of feminists based on some really radical unreasonable mad feminists they've heard of and somehow have decided those people are the prime representative of the group. Who the hell is actually listening to people who want to abolish womens prisons? That's actual insanity and I find it insulting that you would conflate me talking about womens issues with me or anyone with my views supporting the abloshment of women's prisons, when women obviously do crimes that they need to be locked up for. Do not fall into the trap as taking the extreme as the rule.

It's not really just going out at night is it? Its that their more likely to be involved in violence generally. Which is partly a socialisation thing and partly a testosterone thing and partly just the fact that men can be more confident in their brute force. Not telling them to stop taking risks, just saying theres possible correlation. Women just don't take the same risks mostly because they're scared, not because they're more sensible and therefore I'm saying they have some high ground over men for being more smart and avoiding being murdered or something. No they're just more scared.

Now in terms of voting. As we've established the majority of women aren't crazed feminists who try to ban women's prisons. Women are logical like anyone else. Obama was the best candidate for president in the two elections he ran in so any logical woman would vote for him. In the most recent election Hillary and Trump were both terrible candidates and the whole thing was a farce. I don't know what I would've done if I was an American and I had to vote in that thing. But I know that I have no love for Hilllary Clinton and so I don't see why American women would unless they were so basic that they would vote for her just for being a woman. You see it is very hard for a woman to rise up through the ranks to become a presidential candidate, and Hillary is one who has done it through the various fortunate oppurtunities she's had. But what would be preferable is if there were a a larger crop of women who had that capacity like there is with men. When that occurs, and that's what we really want, then perhaps we could get a female candidate who is worthy of the presidency. Hillary was not unworthy to female voters because she is a woman but because she is a prick and a very uncompelling candidate - no-one should vote in someone who's a bad candidate just to further a cause. Though no-one should vote for Trump either haha.

Oh and one last thing. Think about this "men experiencing sexism" thing this way. A black person making fun of white people is not the same as the whole system that America runs on being racist towards black people (let's add BLACK men to your talk of higher rates of incarceration). Feminists overlooking a mens issue when talking about womens issues is therefore not the same as the full force of the patriachy acting on them. For that reason I find both whining white people and men who claim that because they have issues the world is sexist towards them, a bit rich. (Side note: I am not as white as my profile picture - that's not me it's a guitarist - I'm mixed race)

[Wednesday]

Have to admit @JMJW the point about victim blaming. Im sorry if that sounded harsh, and never was my intention to blame victims. I just wanted to set in context the facts brought by some posters.

Anyway, I have to agree with @TomTuttle, @Dayta and some other posters: the issues faced by some men ARE NOT "sexism against men", are just the logical drawbacks of the actual sexism against women (name it machismo, male chauvinism or whatever).

[tgchar21]

There's a good reason that prisons are gender-segregated (which also ties into the discussion on where transgender people should be housed) that has nothing to do with gender stereotypes: To prevent procreation among prisoners.

[Kylo]

But why don't most people believe me and really look at how gender works in society?

They don't believe you because there's a prevalent current attitude that only women suffer in society; or that if men do suffer, it is in fact their own fault or the fault of other men. The concept of "Patriarchy" according to modern feminist thought ensures that everything is as it is because of Patriarchal oppression - because of men - and that women play no part in determining or shaping any part of that because they always have less power; any negative aspects therefore can always be laid at the door of men. As you can see in the comments.