I didn't feel accepted by the local MTF support group I attended

[Rebchen]

My initial post got locked so rewriting this. Also apologies if I offended anyone in any shape or form in my initial post. That wasn't at all my intention. I was just a bit hurt as I had gone there with very good intentions and a open heart of meeting some very kind and accepting people.  But things didn't turn out that way as I was judged for having it easy. I live in stealth which can be suffocating at times so hoped for this to be a good avenue where I could openly be my true self.

[RavenMoon]

I'm not sure why people get so touchy. You were honest and shared your experience. And I guess the part someone found offensive is the part that made the people you met unaccepting. [emoji53]



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[Dani]

It is very difficult for any of us to comment on the behavior of others, especially if we do not know what happened.

Here at Susan's Place we try to be supportive and caring to one another. This site is moderated    and a quick review of the terms of service is one of the first things to do.

As for passing; I am a late transitioner. I am 67 years old and almost 6 feet tall. Most of the time I get "mamed", but some times I still get "sired". It does not bother me at all. The people who deliberately "sir" me are just trying to be funny and smart. I don't care and I am not impressed with their ignorance. They have a problem, not me.

[Cimara]

I had a similar experience a year ago. My boyfriend and I are both pretty much stealth. I found a support group online and Lucas and I decided to attend a meeting. There were no other FtM guys there. No one really spoke to him at all. He was pretty much ignored. The women there were not at all friendly and were actually a bit hostile.  They stared at us both to the point we were uncomfortable.  At the end of the meeting the woman in charge of the group told me I shouldn't come back. She said because I had lived as female pretty much my whole life and had never dealt with facial hair, voice training or having to transition as an adult, I really had nothing to offer the group as far as experience or advice with anything "important" . She even went so far as to tell me that since I transitioned as a child I had no idea what it meant to be trans.

I was so offended and hurt by that! Yes, I will admit that I have been luckier than many women but that doesn't make me less or not trans. I still face many of the same problems and have the same feelings and concerns as any trans person. Lucas had the attitude of (nasty word) them and just forget about it. But that really bothered me. It put me off of trying to contact other trans people for a while. But I got lucky finding this site. The people here are so sweet and caring. And there is so much excellent advice to be had here.
Hugs

[Dayta]

Oh, Rebchen, I'm so sorry to hear that.  I've had kind of mixed results with groups, and I don't know whether there are others to choose from.  I've been to a few different ones, and I find that I connect far better in some fora than in others.  I know that many people in our community are living under tremendous stress, uncertainty and even despair.  This doesn't always bring out the best in people.  I figure that the best way to approach groups is to think about what I might bring to the group in being able to possibly help someone.  I'm almost invariably surprised that I find myself being helped more so.  I hope you can find some kinship there.  Know that you're not judged here, and that we're all pulling for you. 

Erin

[Gertrude]

Jennifer Finney Boylan coined a term begrudgement for stuff like this.


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[Lady Sarah]

Don't feel like you are alone. I used to attend a TG support group. I was not accepted either. I suspect that my skin color played a significant role. I hardly had a chance to talk, even when it was about something very important to me. It seemed that the only one I got along with was the administrator. I talked more to her, than I ever did in group.
Perhaps an online venue may work better for you. Groups will have a hierarchy, or pecking order. If you appear as a threat to the hierarchy, you are likely to be treated as such, even if that is not your intent.

[Doreen]

I also started pretty young, and MOST of the m2f's's were nearly hostile there too... we did fortunately have some f2m's that took me under their wing and socialized with me and hung out... it made a huge difference believe it or not.  As odd as it sounds, they accepted me for me.  That was like 25 years ago, and I really haven't been to any support groups after that.  I actually try to avoid most trans in public because I"m stealth too.

I had a similar experience a year ago. My boyfriend and I are both pretty much stealth. I found a support group online and Lucas and I decided to attend a meeting. There were no other FtM guys there. No one really spoke to him at all. He was pretty much ignored. The women there were not at all friendly and were actually a bit hostile.  They stared at us both to the point we were uncomfortable.  At the end of the meeting the woman in charge of the group told me I shouldn't come back. She said because I had lived as female pretty much my whole life and had never dealt with facial hair, voice training or having to transition as an adult, I really had nothing to offer the group as far as experience or advice with anything "important" . She even went so far as to tell me that since I transitioned as a child I had no idea what it meant to be trans.

I was so offended and hurt by that! Yes, I will admit that I have been luckier than many women but that doesn't make me less or not trans. I still face many of the same problems and have the same feelings and concerns as any trans person. Lucas had the attitude of (nasty word) them and just forget about it. But that really bothered me. It put me off of trying to contact other trans people for a while. But I got lucky finding this site. The people here are so sweet and caring. And there is so much excellent advice to be had here.
Hugs

[Karen_A]

She said because I had lived as female pretty much my whole life and had never dealt with facial hair, voice training or having to transition as an adult, I really had nothing to offer the group as far as experience or advice with anything "important" . She even went so far as to tell me that since I transitioned as a child I had no idea what it meant to be trans.

That is very wrong in so many different ways... You could help them realize what their lives might eventually be able to be like and get them to look a the longer term...

In any case,  what she said likely came from a very different place an what she said...

One thing about some late transitioners is that we can suffer emotionally from our own insecurities and even accepting our validity as women, particularly early on... Someone like you can unintentionally exacerbate those feelings...

If also does not help that even in "the community" there is a tendency of seeing those who pass well as more authentically female and even more so if they were pretty... I remember how hurtful I thought that dynamic was when i first saw it years ago.

Eventually we tend to make peace and accept our shortcomings but it can take a long time...

I'm almost 19 years post-op (started therapy at 39, HRT 1.5 years later, and had SRS at 42),  but when I see (at least in pictures) how well some here pass and how good they look,  sometimes I do feel a little sad for myself and wonder how things might have been ...

Understand that I do OK and pass better than some,  but no one would have ever called me beautiful and I have a big male frame/skeleton -so much so that unlike most, when I lost a lot of weight I got read more.

I do have good things in my life and have been lucky in a number of other ways, but I can understand where they may have been coming from, as well as how wrong they were both to you and to themselves (even if they did not realize it)

- Karen

[big kim]

Feel the same, I'm big & butch with a growly Lemmy voice. Don't wear skirts or make up & ride a Harley & listen to punk rock & metal so not "trans enough" for some

[LiliFee]

You all took the words right out of my mouth. As a relatively young transitioner who passes quite well (getting clocked is a very rare thing now), I find transwomen in local groups treating me hostile more often than not. Perhaps it has to do with the passing, perhaps with the fact my transition has been happening quite fast, I'm not sure.

What I do know is that I find cis-society fitting my needs more than transgroups. I'm almost up for SRS (5 weeks) and my life isn't revolving around trans-issues that much anymore. We all move on at some point, and my dream of simply living the life is really coming true now. My interest in talks about HRT is waning, same for therapy, hair removal and most other trans- issues. Even SRS isn't rocking my boat that much anymore, it's just that last step I'll have to go through myself soon.

On top of that, there's often a lot of jealousy among us, as if I'm deserving of that after having gone through an entire transition. And, this isn't trying to be rude but: sometimes I've got the feeling we're a bunch of broken hearts. We missed out on crucial steps in our emotional and social development, leaving us unable to cope with other people's emotions from time to time. I've got the feeling this is an often overlooked part of transition. It's not just the fact that we've had to deal with stuff most people never have to go through, it also leaves us lacking because of missed steps.

To my opinion, this is one of the reasons we really need therapy, and if possible, a stealth life afterwards to make up for this lost experience. Of course this isn't the case for all trans-people, but it definitely was part of my story. Just my 2 cents

[Mia]

Great thread, I hope this doesn't get locked. I transitioned at 48, all 6'3" of me. It hasn't been easy, but it has absolutely been the best thing I have ever done in my life. So I've worked hard to be the woman I should have been, and both online and in person I find hostility and exclusion by other trans women. It's tragic​ because I'd love to be able to share my experiences but am far more inclined at this point to just disappear and enjoy being me.

It's comforting to read the similar experiences here, I feel a definite connection with those who have posted in this thread.

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[Janes Groove]

I go to a couple different TG support groups. One at the LGBT center and one at the Gender Center.  They are both open and accepting to all, both stealth and non-passing. While there are bad apples, there are also good ones out there.

[Devlyn]

My initial post got locked so rewriting this. Also apologies if I offended anyone in any shape or form in my initial post. That wasn't at all my intention. I was just a bit hurt as I had gone there with very good intentions and a open heart of meeting some very kind and accepting people.  But things didn't turn out that way as I was judged for having it easy. I live in stealth which can be suffocating at times so hoped for this to be a good avenue where I could openly be my true self.

You're pretty abrasive going by your limited amount of posts. If you are the same in real life, I can understand why you were unpopular there. Probably not what you want to hear, but perception is reality.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Devlyn]

You're pretty abrasive going by your limited amount of posts. If you are the same in real life, I can understand why you were unpopular there. Probably not what you want to hear, but perception is reality.

Hugs, Devlyn

Abrasive? Is that what one becomes for living in reality and not supporting others delusions ? Anyways I am referring to my other post since you brought it up.

Are you using the right account?

[Mia]

You're pretty abrasive going by your limited amount of posts. If you are the same in real life, I can understand why you were unpopular there. Probably not what you want to hear, but perception is reality.

Hugs, Devlyn

Wow.

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[Michelle_P]

Oh, you primates!  Group aggression led by a high-status member against a perceived weaker member is really common among primates and some other mammals, particularly rhesus macaques and humans, as well as wolves.

In general, the high-status member initially is probing a newcomer for any signs of weakness.  The newcomer may counter at a similar level, demonstrate submission and surrender, or even flee.  The signs of weakness such as fleeing invite pursuit, and the dominant primate and their supporting band will tend to escalate their abuse.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beyond-bullying/201309/animal-rites-what-animal-behavior-teaches-us-about-bullying

The behavior tends to be self-propagating as well.   Recipients of abuse often become abusers themselves.  This has been demonstrated with physical abuse across generations, and within group dynamics.   Persons who have been marginalized by the larger social body often congregate and in turn marginalize others who they themselves see as weak or 'inappropriate' in some way.

In a recent example of this, I witnessed a large social support group for transgender folks go through this process.  (Not a group I normally associate with, but one that has hosted large benefits in the recent past.)  The majority of the group members consider themselves to be cross-dressers.  A handful of members went beyond this, seeking medical intervention and surgery.  They were marginalized, and recently forced out of the group as being unacceptable to the rest.

Humans tend to be slightly better at longer term planning than other primates, and their abusive behaviors may be more subtle.  This is pretty ugly stuff to have to face, but it is real, and definitely out there.

As rational beings we all need to recognize this behavior in ourselves and others, and rise above the for the long term benefit of all.  Just because someone lives their life differently than you do, or has different experiences and background,  does not invalidate their existence, their need for support, their basic need for social contact.  They are still people.

Welcome to the human race.  It's not a competition.

[Wednesday]

You're pretty abrasive going by your limited amount of posts. If you are the same in real life, I can understand why you were unpopular there. Probably not what you want to hear, but perception is reality.

Agreed. I got the same vibe.

[RobynD]

So sorry you had to deal with that from people that should be understanding.

I've never been to a support group but i will say that in a limited amount of social interaction with other trans people, i have not had a negative experience.

I actually find my largest base of support coming from cis-women friends. These women, younger and all in their 20s and 30s have been a huge thing for me.

[Charlie Nicki]

I haven't been to any groups yet but I think the fact that we share gender dysphoria doesn't guarantee we will all get along, just like I didn't instantly get along with all gay men I met all these years I've lived as a gay man just because we had the same sexual orientation.

That being said, we should definitely try to be more supportive of each other and try not to be judgmental and prejudiced.