Social transition before or after passing?

[Justarandomname]

Thank you everyone for the responses.  Definitely something to think about. 

[Janes Groove]

If I had waited for the perfect moment when all the stars align and every one in the world sees me as 100,000% percent female, I would still be waiting.


. . . and for me that would have just been a terrible loss of what I can honestly say has been the best times of my life.

[Georgette]

Part of my RLE was social transitioning.  I had HRT - Electrolysis - hair growing out - got a legal name change.  Was living as a woman except for work.  My final step was coming out and working as a woman.

Not sure about the "Passing" part in all this, that is also part of RLE.  I found that I was probably passing in that no one after a while would question my presentation.  And this was before my full social transition and full time at work.

[SonadoraXVX]

Hi Justarandomname,

I feel just like you, "when do you know your passing?", and does it matter? To me, it does, since I live in a more conservative part of L.A., the southern portion, blue collar part, but when I go to Hollywood, I have no problems, not giving a rats behind. Passing does matter, depending on what part of the U.S. or world you live in, at least for me.
I guess you know your passing, when you start overhearing people, address you more like her, she, instead of him, that guy, or the derogatory it, or worse.

Don't know if that answered the question, but I think I get your drift.

[Justarandomname]

Hi Justarandomname,

I feel just like you, "when do you know your passing?", and does it matter? To me, it does, since I live in a more conservative part of L.A., the southern portion, blue collar part, but when I go to Hollywood, I have no problems, not giving a rats behind. Passing does matter, depending on what part of the U.S. or world you live in, at least for me.
I guess you know your passing, when you start overhearing people, address you more like her, she, instead of him, that guy, or the derogatory it, or worse.

Don't know if that answered the question, but I think I get your drift.

Thank you Sonadora,

It matters to me as well and I feel the way you do.  For me, I try to avoid people as much as possible (And I still live, dress, and act male) and noticed that I usually don't get gendered at first.  I have heard the comments sometimes like "I thought that was a girl" or "was that a girl?" etc.  which was nice to hear but now has become annoying as it feels more like ridicule than anything else.  The thing is, I live in a pretty liberal area.

I guess I just wished that I could know definitively if I pass or not.  I will look at different mirrors, in different lighting, and either see nothing but all the glaring male traits or possible look female.  Even when I take photos, I only see the male traits so it does suck.

[KathyLauren]

I guess I just wished that I could know definitively if I pass or not.

There is no such thing as definitively passing.  Even many cis women, in certain lighting, or with certain makeup, or certain clothes, or in certain situations, or when seen by certain people, do not pass.  Success is passing most of the time.

[Karen_A]

There is no such thing as definitively passing.  Even many cis women, in certain lighting, or with certain makeup, or certain clothes, or in certain situations, or when seen by certain people, do not pass.  Success is passing most of the time.

I dsagree... While it's true some ggs (I started when that was the terminology used in the community) OCCASIONALLY  MOMENTAIRLY get taken as male... VERY few are still taken that way upon closer examination/interaction...

As i see it, having that be the case is what true 'passing' is. I won't venture a guess on how many of those that want to blend seamlessly get to that place... I never did and it's been about 20 years since I transitioned.

Passing is a combination of looks, actions, how one moves , how one sounds (voice quality),  how one speaks (content not voice quality)  how one 'feels' to other people... ALL are import and and if anyone is too far out of expectations sony of those areas, one does draw more scrutiny and will be read by some people (What people key on most varies from person to person so one can pass to some but not to others)

So how does one know if one has gotten there?

It's very difficult to be 100% sure because most people will not say anything directly if they do read you or suspect out of politeness.

So you just have to live your life as best you can and try not to worry about it (easier said than done - particularly early on I know) and be sensitive to how other react/interact act with you...

After awhile you can get a sense from that of were you stand from the contrast of how different people interact with you.

I will say IMO one stands zero chance of getting there if you don't learn to integrate into society as a woman...IMO very few who transition past grade school will truly pass from day one  no matter how good they look without that socialization process...

So anyone who waits until they fully pass BEFORE going Full time will have a long wait indeed...

But i do think having electro at least mostly done and giving HRT reasonable time to work first is a good idea as a reasonable degree of passing is need to get the socialization as woman vs as a TS...

It is a bit of a chicken and egg problem, but at some point one needs to hatch and go out into the world to grow up...

- Karen

[SonadoraXVX]

Justarandomname,

If you see male traits, like I see male traits in the mirror, then your male appearing, simple and clear, I hate to admit it. Have a girlfriend(friend) about 3 years ago, get a short male crewcut, no way if you see her from behind and from front without shades and with sweat, you would've say she is a man. In a hoodie, sitting in a car, with dark shades,  50/50 yea. If others name you male, your male appearing, hard and fast rule, but upon not seeing you well, then they scanned.

I personally am going for male-fail appearing,but that aint' working yet, after 4 years and 6 months of hrt, but I'm ok with that.

[Dani]

For myself, it was not a before or after question, but more like a before, middle then after type of situation.

My middle years were very androgynous. Sometimes I was called sir and other madam. It just depends on the situation.

[Michelle_P]

I don't pass.  I know this because people who don't depend on me for their living (unlike salespeople wait staff, etc who expect me to pay for stuff and perhaps even tip) pretty consistently use male pronouns in reference to me in any contact closer than just walking past me on the street.

I am still attempting a social transition, at least among people who are more accepting than most.  Frankly, social transition and integration is necessary before I will pass, as my social behavior is not yet fully matching the cultural norms for the female role.

[Charlie Nicki]

I'm getting my therapist letter for HRT this Thursday. It will probably take another couple of weeks before I actually get the hormones. And I'm also starting laser hair removal on Saturday. No way in hell I would even try social transitioning at this point, I'm remaining a "man" for the next few months while all of this falls into place, I'm also letting my hair grow.

In my head I think I will probably transition socially around this time next year, but I've heard from girls who wanted to wait as well but then transitioned just a few months into hormones. I don't know if this will happen to me, but I definitely want to wait until I am more feminine looking.

[Rambler]

When I first began the process I told myself that I wouldn't socially transition until I pass. My biggest hangups are my thin hair & facial/body hair. Now that I've been in hrt for a month and a half I'm starting to get SO impatient. I've seen improvement in those areas but I just don't feel quite ready yet. Hopefully a couple more months of waiting and a little more laser removal and I'll be good to go. I really should spend the next few weekends hitting thrift stores and a couple clothing outlets to bolster my wardrobe, and make appointments to get my ears pierced & eyebrows shaped in preparation.

On top of that, my wife if just finishing up with graduate school and is about 2 months pregnant, so my transition has also been forced to the background behind those events, something that I'm becoming increasingly bitter & resentful over.

[Justarandomname]

Thank you for the replies and the thought provoking answers.  I find that the idea of passing is such a divisive and difficult question to tackle since it seems like something that is very individualistic.  I noticed that my when my confidence is shot and my mood somber, it has a huge impact on how I view myself.  As for passing, I have to admit that most days, I don't care but when my depression sets in, everything seems hopeless and I feel incredibly ugly.

I do agree though that passing is not just about physical attributes but many other things as well.  I have a cis female co-worker who I thought was trans at first (she's 6'2, has a low voice, masculine facial features) but there are other female co-workers that could shave their hair bald and never be mistaken for anything other than cis.

Anyway...this was taken half a year ago (I rarely take photos) http://imgur.com/yrbAvwn and I see nothing but male features.

I'm sorry that I didn't get to reply to every post but I think that the idea of passing is a difficult beast to tackle and I just want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences and feedback. 

[tgirlamg]

You look gorgeous!!!... I think for you the battle of "passing" is going to prove to be more internal than the external... All will be well my friend!!!

Onward we go brave sister!!!

Ashley

[Charlie Nicki]

Thank you for the replies and the thought provoking answers.  I find that the idea of passing is such a divisive and difficult question to tackle since it seems like something that is very individualistic.  I noticed that my when my confidence is shot and my mood somber, it has a huge impact on how I view myself.  As for passing, I have to admit that most days, I don't care but when my depression sets in, everything seems hopeless and I feel incredibly ugly.

I do agree though that passing is not just about physical attributes but many other things as well.  I have a cis female co-worker who I thought was trans at first (she's 6'2, has a low voice, masculine facial features) but there are other female co-workers that could shave their hair bald and never be mistaken for anything other than cis.

Anyway...this was taken half a year ago (I rarely take photos) http://imgur.com/yrbAvwn and I see nothing but male features.

I'm sorry that I didn't get to reply to every post but I think that the idea of passing is a difficult beast to tackle and I just want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences and feedback.

Girl...what the heck are you even talking about? That picture screams WOMAN to me, and I'm not saying this to make you feel better; I honestly believe it, if I didn't I would just remain silent about your pic. I agree with tgirlamc, the struggle is mostly in your head, if that was a year and a half ago and you are still taking hormones, you probably look even prettier and more feminine now. You have to do your social transition ASAP, what are you waiting for?!

[Dena]

It's more difficult to pass with your hair pulled back instead of surrounding your face however you can pull off either look. You are ready to go full time whenever you want.

[Karen_A]

Anyway...this was taken half a year ago (I rarely take photos) http://imgur.com/yrbAvwn and I see nothing but male features.

You look like the sister of Agent May of Agents of Shield!

[LizK]

Ok so who is the woman in the picture...ahhhh its you!!...You look great in that 6 month old picture...Would love to see an updated picture?

[RavenMoon]

For me, I'm not going full time until I look the way I want. If I can't get to that point, I won't go full time. For me all my dysphoria is centered around my face.


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[Dayta]

In my head I think I will probably transition socially around this time next year, but I've heard from girls who wanted to wait as well but then transitioned just a few months into hormones. I don't know if this will happen to me, but I definitely want to wait until I am more feminine looking.

This was pretty much my original plan last year, but the two things that changed my mind had nothing to do worth passing.  1) I was concerned about potential revisions to federal laws making it more difficult to get ID documents changed and 2) my doctor offered to write me a letter.  There are many reasons to accelerate or to delay.  One ought to be prepared to change course if either concern or opportunity presents itself.  Be flexible.

Erin