What is the deal with guys and machines?

[AnneK]

Yes, but this has nothing whatsoever to say about a man (or woman) who enjoys a well-built machine.

What is says is somethings are innate and others learned.  A far greater proportion of men enjoy working on cars than women.  That doesn't mean women can't, just they're less likely to.

[davina61]

My daughter drag races a VW beetle and knows how to fix it,but then she got that from me. I just like mechanical stuff, older the better no plastic s**t . Guess that's why I like hot rods and building drag cars . Got nothing to do with gender as I know males that cant change a light bulb and ladies that can build a house or car

[rmaddy]

What is says is somethings are innate and others learned.  A far greater proportion of men enjoy working on cars than women.  That doesn't mean women can't, just they're less likely to.

I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever that this is innate.  If girls were socialized early and often to enjoy play with machines to the same extent boys were, I suspect the outcome would be the same.

[Janes Groove]

I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever that this is innate.  If girls were socialized early and often to enjoy play with machines to the same extent boys were, I suspect the outcome would be the same.

I agree. I have a cisgender friend and when she was a girl her dad, a machinist, took her to work with him at his shop.  He had her sweep floors and stuff like that but never taught here anything about machining because he felt it was men's work.   She says now she wishes that he did.

[KathyLauren]

I know the generalization.  But my female brain loves machines.  And I am not alone.  It seems to me that at about 50% of trans women have or had careers in IT.

I am not sure what the attraction is for cis males.  But for me, it was that machines don't judge.  I may not have been good enough to fit into the cool male cliques, but I could make myself good enough to excell at running a machine.  My performance was objective: no one could argue that I wasn't good enough when it was clear that I could get the machine to do exactly what I or the client wanted.

All my life, I've been into machines.  I restored a 1938 Packard; I had a career in computers; I flew jet aircraft; I ran a recording studio; now my hobby is astrophotography. 

[Julia1996]

I know the generalization.  But my female brain loves machines.  And I am not alone.  It seems to me that at about 50% of trans women have or had careers in IT.

I am not sure what the attraction is for cis males.  But for me, it was that machines don't judge.  I may not have been good enough to fit into the cool male cliques, but I could make myself good enough to excell at running a machine.  My performance was objective: no one could argue that I wasn't good enough when it was clear that I could get the machine to do exactly what I or the client wanted.

All my life, I've been into machines.  I restored a 1938 Packard; I had a career in computers; I flew jet aircraft; I ran a recording studio; now my hobby is astrophotography.

What's a Packard?

[KathyLauren]

What's a Packard?

[Dena]

Unless I miss my guess, that's a inline 12 cylinder engine. Packard was one of the quality car manufactures and the were also known for aircraft engine production. The Packard version of the Merlin engine powered many aircraft in WW II.

[KathyLauren]

Unless I miss my guess, that's a inline 12 cylinder engine.

Inline 12??  Yikes, I hope not.  They had a V-12 and an inline 8.  Mine (like the one in the picture, which isn't mine) was the 8.

[Kylo]

I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever that this is innate.  If girls were socialized early and often to enjoy play with machines to the same extent boys were, I suspect the outcome would be the same.

It's a nice idea but in Western society at least there has been 1-3 generations of girls who've been socialized to believe they can and should be able to do the same things that men like to do, and nobody is stopping them from going and building kit cars if they want to. From what I see women are given a positive spotlight right now if they want to do these sort of things, they're not shamed but praised for it if the media happens to latch onto a case... and yet most of them still are not that interested. It could be that most are just not that into it. Women have minds of their own and if they want to do something they know they can here; I doubt they are going to be put off something they feel passionately about... so long as they are feeling passionately about it. Or that they have to be told they like/should like something?

The idea we are all "blank slates" without innate propensities for certain things does seem rather a strange view to have when you come up against the transsexual phenomenon. Just reading these boards and you see a lot of propensities for things associated with one's identified gender.

In societies where males and females have a great deal of freedom to choose what they want to do... like say Sweden compared to Iran, apparently you see less crossover in terms of gender in the sort of jobs people want to go into in a place like Sweden, with women choosing to go into traditionally male fields even less than they might in a place like Iran. Which I suppose goes to show, it's not being forced on them or socialized into them. They are freely choosing - on average - not to bother with those things. 

There's a female "genius" in my family who went off to do science - their parents had held them back as a kid in the 60s in favor of the oldest son being sent to university, but with today's attitudes she knew she could go pursue that passion, get a degree and go do what she wanted to do, there was nothing holding her back besides putting the work in. Even if one's parents are sexist, once you leave their environment, I think all Western women are aware they can do pretty much whatever they want now with their independence.  What exactly is holding them back? Girls outperform boys at school on average, so it's not that they aren't smart enough to be able to see what they want or what they enjoy.

I don't think women are being locked out of a fascination with machines at all by socialization.

[Gertrude]

Unless I miss my guess, that's a inline 12 cylinder engine. Packard was one of the quality car manufactures and the were also known for aircraft engine production. The Packard version of the Merlin engine powered many aircraft in WW II.

They also used it in tanks. I could have gotten one for free 30plus years ago.


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[Dena]

Inline 12??  Yikes, I hope not.  They had a V-12 and an inline 8.  Mine (like the one in the picture, which isn't mine) was the 8.

Your right. They made a inline 12 as a test engine but never put it into production. A guy I knew from work had a in line 8 in his younger days and as he wasn't ever wealthy. I suspect it was a car he picked up second hand.

[KathyLauren]

An inline 12 would twist itself apart.  Even my inline 8 had a torsion crack in the block.  That's why all 8s these days, and even most 6s are in V configurations.

[Gertrude]

An inline 12 would twist itself apart.  Even my inline 8 had a torsion crack in the block.  That's why all 8s these days, and even most 6s are in V configurations.

V's are also shorter and make more sense with regards to space. Another problem in the days of carburetors was fuel distribution. It's tough to get equal fuel distribution with inline engines of that size with carbs. I still like v-8s best, how they sound. Before I got married I had a 1983 Camaro that I put a 400 small block in it. I miss that car sometimes.


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[Janes Groove]

The idea we are all "blank slates" without innate propensities for certain things does seem rather a strange view to have when you come up against the transsexual phenomenon.

I would argue that it is relevant.  What better long-term, longitudinal studies could social scientists devise than a population of women (i.e. transgender women) who were raised and socialized as men, and forced to live as men by the stigma of transphobia?  And lo and behold what do we find?  Women who enjoy, succeed, and thrive in male dominated industries, the military, IT, the trades, mechanics, etc. This would suggest it is the early societal socialization and social pressure that steers women toward stereotypically feminine pursuits and men toward stereotypically masculine pursuits.

[rmaddy]

...now my hobby is astrophotography.

Mine too! 

[rmaddy]

It's a nice idea but in Western society at least there has been 1-3 generations of girls who've been socialized to believe they can and should be able to do the same things that men like to do, and nobody is stopping them from going and building kit cars if they want to. From what I see women are given a positive spotlight right now if they want to do these sort of things, they're not shamed but praised for it if the media happens to latch onto a case... and yet most of them still are not that interested. It could be that most are just not that into it. Women have minds of their own and if they want to do something they know they can here; I doubt they are going to be put off something they feel passionately about... so long as they are feeling passionately about it. Or that they have to be told they like/should like something?

I disagree.  I think we are seeing changes in society as a result in changes to socialization.  What you're looking at is an incomplete transformation.  True, young women are being told that they can do whatever they want now, but not until they've fully mastered being a princess under the near constant references to their beauty, which start even before they are born.  Dismantle that, and you'll have a blended society.

[AnonyMs]

From what I've seen men often get a very narrow obsession with whatever they get interested in, whether its cars, computers, whatever. Women seem to have a more balanced level of interest, so while they might choose the same career as men, they could much more easily choose something else.

The things that really puzzles me though, is why women read those women's magazines? I've never understood it. Can't say I've looked at one since I started HRT though, maybe I should take a look.

[AnneK]

The things that really puzzles me though, is why women read those women's magazines? I've never understood it. Can't say I've looked at one since I started HRT though, maybe I should take a look.

Same with some of the TV shows they watch.  There's one in Canada called "The Social", which I had to endure recently (It was on in an office where I was doing some work recently.).  How can any thinking person watch that garbage?

Also, my mother was one of those addicted to soaps, which seemed to be mainly remember when, be with us when and lots of comericals in between.




Carol Burnett had a few spoofs on soaps. 

[SiobhánF]

I guess that, if we were to keep ourselves locked into this dichotomous mentality, I would be both. I go for what looks nice, first, then figure out if it has the specs that I like. If it isn't functional to my liking, it loses its appeal. I like a well-built machine, but I don't obsess over it. I played with dolls and cars when I was a child, so I'm not sure what that would make me. I know lots of women who are rational, who like to make things out of wood, who like bodybuilding, etc., but I doubt that makes them any less feminine. My wife has a very dichotomous view on this, as well. She thinks that if someone doesn't have an experience like hers, or think just like her, that they aren't really female. Sorry, babe; that's not how it works. I like some traditionally masculine things and some traditionally feminine things. Most of the masculine things that I like are from the years of trying to play the part of a male, from which I found that I liked certain things, regardless of whether I was expected to like them.

But, I get why you (the OP) would be scratching your head about it. My dad is exactly the same way. He'd be looking at appliances or hardware and take forever while telling me not go anywhere because he just needed me to give him my opinion about whatever he was looking at. Like, I really don't care, just pick something so we can go. I usually got bored very quickly. I would normally just wander off to the electronics or clothes sections and he'd have to come find me.