Is there a useful window for progesterone?

[RobynD]

So, i had an opportunity to see a 2nd LPN that has specialized to an extent in trans patients. I'm likely not switching primary care to that clinic but wanted to get that 2nd opinion as well as take a advantage of a blood/hormone test some months before my PCP was willing to so another one.

Regarding my regimen, he said that in his opinion " Progesterone only has a useful window of about 6 months" and he advises his patients to discontinue its use sometime after that, because by then the breast maturation effects have occurred and your left with only the negatives of a stronger appetite and potential mood swings.

This is the first i'd heard of that. I have been on prometrium for about 14 months and have experienced great breast changes (rounder more glandular structures, more mature looking nipples and aerolas), but was somewhat under the impression that i would be taking it for life. To be sure, it does present a challenge to appetite and weight control on the downside.

I know there is a danger of too many cooks in the kitchen and opinions on this stuff, but has anyone else heard this theory about progesterone? I'm pretty pleased on all aspects of my feminization thus far and don't want to even partially derail anything.

[Deborah]

I asked my NP about it during my last appointment.  I have been on progesterone since I started.  She said that they weren't convinced that it really does anything at all but that they prescribe it in reasonable doses to those who want it.  I've been thinking about stopping it for a while just to see what happens.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[LizK]

So, i had an opportunity to see a 2nd LPN that has specialized to an extent in trans patients. I'm likely not switching primary care to that clinic but wanted to get that 2nd opinion as well as take a advantage of a blood/hormone test some months before my PCP was willing to so another one.

Regarding my regimen, he said that in his opinion " Progesterone only has a useful window of about 6 months" and he advises his patients to discontinue its use sometime after that, because by then the breast maturation effects have occurred and your left with only the negatives of a stronger appetite and potential mood swings.

This is the first i'd heard of that. I have been on prometrium for about 14 months and have experienced great breast changes (rounder more glandular structures, more mature looking nipples and aerolas), but was somewhat under the impression that i would be taking it for life. To be sure, it does present a challenge to appetite and weight control on the downside.

I know there is a danger of too many cooks in the kitchen and opinions on this stuff, but has anyone else heard this theory about progesterone? I'm pretty pleased on all aspects of my feminization thus far and don't want to even partially derail anything.

My Dr claimed when I asked her about Progesterone  that it was a waste of time...I don't know about that, but she claimed you may get some increased breast "growth" which she also claims would be all fluid and would disappear anyway.  She has had a lot of experience with Trans patients and is trans herself(don't know if that is better or worse)

[SadieBlake]

Many doctors say there's no useful effect of taking progesterone, while some acknowledge that the negatives of earlier forms don't go along with micronized (prometrium), my doc also glossed over the formation of the actual lactation structures, which many trans women say provided fullness to their breasts. I found this, prior to adding progesterone, my breasts were little cones. After a couple of months they'd already filled out to a nicely rounded shape.

For me it also definitely has a positive effect on sex drive. The only downside I've found is if I use it for a whole month or more uninterrupted, I seem to suffer a negative mood change. Cycling seems to address this.

The fact is hormones have different effects on different people. Progesterone works well for me, probably not so for everyone.

[annemarie]

Does anyone know if it is possible for me to stick to just progesterone and finasteride as an hrt? I'm leaning more towards these because full testosterone blockers and oestrogen would eventually render me infertile which is something I don't want.

[LizK]

Many doctors say there's no useful effect of taking progesterone, while some acknowledge that the negatives of earlier forms don't go along with micronized (prometrium), my doc also glossed over the formation of the actual lactation structures, which many trans women say provided fullness to their breasts. I found this, prior to adding progesterone, my breasts were little cones. After a couple of months they'd already filled out to a nicely rounded shape.

For me it also definitely has a positive effect on sex drive. The only downside I've found is if I use it for a whole month or more uninterrupted, I seem to suffer a negative mood change. Cycling seems to address this.

The fact is hormones have different effects on different people. Progesterone works well for me, probably not so for everyone.

Thanks Sadie

I have heard this from a number of ladies...I keep hearing good things about progesterone from those that use it.

[LizK]

I asked my NP about it during my last appointment.  I have been on progesterone since I started.  She said that they weren't convinced that it really does anything at all but that they prescribe it in reasonable doses to those who want it.  I've been thinking about stopping it for a while just to see what happens.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Deborah do you get many side effects from it?

[Deborah]

To the best of my knowledge I don't have any side effects at all.  If I stop and am less hungry then that is a possible one.  But if it's not really doing anything then it's one less med to have to worry about.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[LizK]

To the best of my knowledge I don't have any side effects at all.  If I stop and am less hungry then that is a possible one.  But if it's not really doing anything then it's one less med to have to worry about.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

Thanks for that 

[KayXo]

Makes my skin and hair less dry, glowy/shiny look to hair and skin. Increases appetite temporarily, mood swings, yes. I look more bloated, fuller. Glandular (lobules/alveoli) development, sideways, breasts fuller, areolas/nipples bigger, wider. Helps me if I feel anxious but tends to depress mood if I take too much and slows me down. Improves libido and orgasm response.

Is somewhat anti-estrogenic but can also complement E. Depends on overall balance.

[Deborah]

I'm hopefully getting the skin benefits by eating my homemade bone soup everyday.  It's so thick with fat and collagen that I could probably burn it like a candle when it's cold from the refrigerator.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[KimSails]

My endo only prescribed it to me at my request. His perspective (right or wrong)was:
- Only start it after at least a couple years of estrogen and you gotten all or most of the breast growth that you can from estrogen, because he said that there is evidence that the progesterone may stunt the type of breast growth you get from estrogen
- Whatever breast growth benefit you get from progesterone will happen in the first six months (just as others' posted above). Only a few of his patients noted any breast growth from it, and those that did said it was minimal

My own perspective is that it did provide some growth at first. But now, at about 8 months of progesterone and nearly three years of estrogen, I think I am done growing.

My appetite was fierce on the progesterone at first.  While it seems to still be elevated, either I have gotten used to it or it has tamed a bit.

[RobynD]

Thanks for the responses. As Kay pointed out there are probably other benefits like skin and others i am not thinking about. Most of my breast growth came from the estrogen only period of about a year, but at a D cup i am pretty content where i am at. Still it feels like things are still growing.

I may just continue Prometrium and evaluate in the future. Another thought i had was cycling it and while i know that doesn't do a lot, it would give me some feeling on what my appetite, libido and moods are on times without it.

[LexiDreamer]

I find it funny that doctors seem to forget (or ignore) that Tanner stage 5 breast development is only attained after pregnancy.
Progesterone is the pregnancy hormone... hence the increase in appetite and libido, glowing skin, increased urination, etc...

I take Prometrium and feel absolutely amazing on it. The mental and energetic benefits alone are enough to keep me taking it.... the physical benefits are just icing on the cake.

[KayXo]

I find it funny that doctors seem to forget (or ignore) that Tanner stage 5 breast development is only attained after pregnancy.
Progesterone is the pregnancy hormone...

To be fair and objective though, there are many things going on during pregnancy, higher estrogen, higher prolactin, increased growth hormone levels, etc. Hard to establish causality.

Glad you're liking it though.

[RobynD]

I find it funny that doctors seem to forget (or ignore) that Tanner stage 5 breast development is only attained after pregnancy.

That is really interesting. I had no idea Tanner V came after pregnancy. I had thought that the progesterone after puberty was the thing that finished breast development. Now i am trying to remember my spouses breasts pre-pregnancy vs post. I do know they changed. I have pics around some place, i will compare.

I do know that on the days i have forgotten or skipped prometrium, my appetite is much easier to manage. Mood wise i seem slightly better too although when i take the prometrium in the evening it does help me become sleepy. Nevertheless i remain a fan of the hormone because for me the results in breast development seemed obvious.

[KayXo]

Again, to be fair and objective, I've noticed increased breast growth since reducing my Prometrium dose. Some studies have shown that progesterone can counter estrogen's effects on breast cell growth so yea, my experience confirms this. To each their own. Also my weight has gone down, some, don't have so much appetite, mood is actually more stable and guys are looking at me more.

[kelly_aus]

To the best of my knowledge I don't have any side effects at all.  If I stop and am less hungry then that is a possible one.  But if it's not really doing anything then it's one less med to have to worry about.

Known side effects of progesterone include:  dizziness, drowsiness, sleepiness, and fatigue, and can, via oral administration, also cause depression and anxiety.

Many doctors say there's no useful effect of taking progesterone, while some acknowledge that the negatives of earlier forms don't go along with micronized (prometrium), my doc also glossed over the formation of the actual lactation structures, which many trans women say provided fullness to their breasts. I found this, prior to adding progesterone, my breasts were little cones. After a couple of months they'd already filled out to a nicely rounded shape.

Can you say with any certainty that the growth wouldn't have happened without progesterone? The trans community id full of anecdotes like this - even without any real proof.

My Dr claimed when I asked her about Progesterone  that it was a waste of time...I don't know about that, but she claimed you may get some increased breast "growth" which she also claims would be all fluid and would disappear anyway.  She has had a lot of experience with Trans patients and is trans herself(don't know if that is better or worse)

I suspect I know who you see, tell her I said Hi.. She and I had a quite in-depth discussion of progesterone, she's fairly up to date on it (or was 6 years ago) and we agreed that it would be of little benefit.

[LizK]

I suspect I know who you see, tell her I said Hi.. She and I had a quite in-depth discussion of progesterone, she's fairly up to date on it (or was 6 years ago) and we agreed that it would be of little benefit.

Happy too, I personally think she is great, some don't like her manner as she tends to tell it as she see's it and not sugar coat it...She read me like a book the first time I met her, and asked me the most relevant question that anyone ever treating me has asked prior to or since. I have a great deal of respect for her opinion. I am very happy with my results.

[SadieBlake]

Kelley_aus intoned

Can you say with any certainty that the growth wouldn't have happened without progesterone? The trans community id full of anecdotes like this - even without any real proof.

Have I run a double blind trial? Obviously not. I started and continue progesterone principally for effect on libido. I talked extensively with my psychiatrist about it. My feeling was that hormonal - brain effects are different between individuals similar as with antidepressants. You're working with an amazingly complex system. The effect on libido was pronounced, after 9 months of nearly zero interest in sex I had erotic feelings again. I also find if I take progesterone for more than a couple of weeks I run into some depression.

Increased boob size is a minor bonus. Can I be certain observed change in shape was due to progesterone? Of course not. Am I certain that after 9 months of steady growth of my breasts with a conical ahape, an additional 2 months of estrogen plus progesterone changed the shape? Yes I am.

I'm sorry, your tone feels verging on pejorative. What is the difference between "real" proof you ask about and simply proof? I'm a scientist and engineer, I know the value of controlled studies and I also know the things that are really hard to determine that way.

Case in point, the APA working group on transgender diagnosis for the latest version of the DSM observed that WPATH is based on effectively no high quality studies however they also conclude that WPATH works. So we have very different views coming from the two bodies in the medical establishment that have the greatest influence in our lives.

Poincaré wrote, I believe it was in "Science and Hypothesis" that whatever the apparatus used in taking observations, ultimately it's the act of observing that results in the measure. His point was to establish that whether using a handspan or the most precise equipment available to technology, the act if determination happens in the mind.

We've come a long way since Poincaré, and yet we are still human.

Before I worked as an engineer and then scientist, I worked as a machinist, before that as a blackmith. Today I try to eek out as much of my livelihood as I can in blowing glass (using tools I fashioned in our blacksmithing shop on the other side of the infinite corridor). Shape, form and measure have been my life for the last 40+ years. Again, I'm pretty darned sure the shape of my boobs changed and that the stimulus for that change was the progesterone.