Damn it's cold!

[JessieA]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I really appreciate it, and all of the information. It has definitley given me things to think about and talk with my doc about when I see her in a few weeks.

You all are awesome!

[Steph34]

Estradiol makes the skin thinner relative to when T is high and E is low. Thinner skin = decreased tolerance to cold

True, but female hormones also increase subcutaneous fat, which is a better insulator than skin. I would therefore question whether thinning skin could be a primary explanation.

Another factor is muscle wasting. Suppressing T and taking E will typically increase the ratio of fat to muscle, and muscle tissue is usually more thermogenic than fat.

Still, I suspect the thyroid involvement. Just as menopausal cis women experience "hot flashes" due to a suddenly crashing estradiol level, I can experience "shiver attacks" due to a sudden spike in estradiol level.  Both phenomena seem to be related to levels changing too quickly for the thyroid to compensate. Being cold was much more of an issue for me with injections than it is now with patches, which makes sense since the latter provide a steadier level and a slower rise.

[Dani]

I have the same problem, cold intolerance. So I moved to Florida. This is just fine most of the year, but not this week!

[SofiN]

Chiming in to say I noticed this too. Hands and feet are colder probably because of lower blood pressure. I find myself wrapping up more than normal. (Not that I mind!)

[KayXo]

I used to feel cold on E pills. Since switching to injections and with progesterone, I no longer have this problem.

[Charlie Nicki]

I'm also cold now! like all the time!

I read somewhere that it could also be due to low pressure which can be caused by diuretics (such as spiro) so is there a correlation? I was freaking out for a minute thinking my dose might be too high and was dropping my pressure too much but now I see being sensitive to cold is common??

[KayXo]

Skin gets thinner when running on E and less T. I find taking progesterone warms me up and makes me more tolerant. It is known for slightly increasing body temperature.

[Charlie Nicki]

Skin gets thinner when running on E and less T. I find taking progesterone warms me up and makes me more tolerant. It is known for slightly increasing body temperature.

Thanks Kay. I have a friend who takes progesterone injections, besides E and T blockers, and told me the injections help her boob size as well, is this true? Another friend told me it doesn't work.

[KayXo]

She probably doesn't take progesterone but Depo-Provera (or perhaps 17-alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate) which is not the same as progesterone and likely doesn't increase body temperature. Progesterone is in a class of its own, is what our bodies naturally produce but there are progestins, analogues to progesterone which have similar but also quite different effects. Progesterone, if injected, is very quickly metabolized and within 24 hours, levels are almost back to baseline. You'd have to inject daily. On the other hand, Depo-Provera lasts 3 months, I think and the other one, has a half-life of about 7-8 days so can be injected weekly.

Progestogens, in general, may increase the size of breasts through various mechanisms, yes but can also work against estrogen's proliferative effects in the breast tissue. It will depend on the hormonal balance in the tissue. Together, they tend to have a synergistic effect, making the breasts look fuller due to ductal and lobuloalveolar formation. 

Soo, you have progesterone, what our bodies have secreted for millions of years.

Then you have progestins, analogues to progesterone, not found in the human body but that have progestogenic effects in common but exert also very different effects (i.e. may be androgenic, estrogenic, glucocorticoid, etc.).

And finally, we group progesterone and progestins together and call them progestogens.

[Charlie Nicki]

She probably doesn't take progesterone but Depo-Provera (or perhaps 17-alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate) which is not the same as progesterone and likely doesn't increase body temperature. Progesterone is in a class of its own, is what our bodies naturally produce but there are progestins, analogues to progesterone which have similar but also quite different effects. Progesterone, if injected, is very quickly metabolized and within 24 hours, levels are almost back to baseline. You'd have to inject daily. On the other hand, Depo-Provera lasts 3 months, I think and the other one, has a half-life of about 7-8 days so can be injected weekly.

Progestogens, in general, may increase the size of breasts through various mechanisms, yes but can also work against estrogen's proliferative effects in the breast tissue. It will depend on the hormonal balance in the tissue. Together, they tend to have a synergistic effect, making the breasts look fuller due to ductal and lobuloalveolar formation. 

Soo, you have progesterone, what our bodies have secreted for millions of years.

Then you have progestins, analogues to progesterone, not found in the human body but that have progestogenic effects in common but exert also very different effects (i.e. may be androgenic, estrogenic, glucocorticoid, etc.).

And finally, we group progesterone and progestins together and call them progestogens.

Sounds like those injections are not needed then. I googled the name of the medicine and it's composed of (names in Spanish, sorry): algestona acetofénido 90mg, enantato de estradiol 6mg. It's actually a contraceptive.

[KayXo]

Right, it's popular in the Latin countries. Estradiol Enathate and Algestone (or dihydroxyprogesterone) Acetophenide. The latter is the progestogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algestone_acetophenide

It appears to be a long lasting progestogen. But has been associated with prolactinomas in two transsexual women in Brazil and has been shown to induce pituitary hyperplasia in rats.

Sometiimes, with these combinations, the potency of the progestogen may be too high relative to that of estrogen so that you may not get the estrogenic effects you are aiming for.

That's all I know about it.

[Charlie Nicki]

Thanks!


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[KayXo]

Just came across this really old study and here's what they say:

Fertility and Sterility
Volume 8, Issue 2, March–April 1957, Pages 131-148

"Of utmost importance is the ability of progesterone to produce a hyperthermic effect in the organism as a whole, regardless of the phase or cycle in which the animal or human may be.1 , 6, 7.12,13,14 Estrogen, on the other hand, will actually induce a hypothermic response."

"The temperature rise noted after progesterone therapy is attributed in part to the hypothalamic response induced by this steroid."

"the hyperthermic reaction to progesterone does not require preliminary estrogen administration."

Interestingly, they add:

"On the other hand, before progesterone can achieve a notable effect upon any of the sex organs in the female, it is necessary that a prior or concomitant estrogenic activity be present in order that progesterone may induce the desired physiologic changes and therapeutic results."