Trans Highdeas

[eyesk8rboi]

OKay....I don't care if you're 420 friendly or not....We all just have random cool ideas that pop into our heads, sometimes at random, sometimes when you're high, taking a poop, or whenever and wherever the random creativity strikes.....

Whether it's trans related or not...I wanted to start a thread for those random cool ideas....So bring it on!

This thread brought to you by:

They should make Trans ID Cards.....Like a medical bracelet almost....But like it's a photo ID with your updated photo that states you're doing hormone treatment....

HEAR ME OUT...I know that this is a weird thing to say, but like....It's going to be quite some time before I can change my name and gender marker, and probably a long time before I can update my driver's license, so there's going to be a really awkward point for me where I look too manly for my driver's licences  that people probably won't want to sell me alcohol or cigarettes because my ID doesn't seem legit and like I just stole some random girl's stuff.

Like it would have your preferred name and gender, then in like brackets your currently legal name, and like a little thing that says "This patient is undergoing hormone replacement for gender reassignment via Dr. _______" then like your signature, the dr's signature and like a legal medical seal that way they'll accept your totally fake looking drivers licence because it shows a male or female and you're presenting and passing your preferred gender and the medical trans ID shows the progression so they can see it's your.

Now this probably only applies to my personal case, but I would freaking love that!!! It makes so much sense!

[100miles]

Tl;dr

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Dena]

I had one 37 years ago. My therapist wrote a carry letter that I could present should the police stop me. It explained the reason for the difference between my ID and my  appearance. You  have to remember in those days, it was illegal to appear in public in a disguise so if you ran across a policeman in a bad mood you  could potentially spend the evening in jail while it all got sorted out. This sobering fact made me a very good drive and I never had to used the letter. I am unsure if I still have it because it had a bunch of wear but I stopped carrying it years ago.

[KathyLauren]

I like this idea.  My driver's license still has his name, gender and photo on it, and there's not a darned thing I can do about it for many months.  If I am stopped in the meantime, I'm gonna have some 'splainin' to do. 

On the plus side, I have been stopped at a random check-stop and not asked for my driver's license, and the cop was perfectly polite.  I don't know if I passed well enough or if he was cool to trans people.  He just reminded me that my inspection sticker expired in a few weeks, and that was it.

On the other hand, at the bank, I was accused of using someone else's bank card, not because the name didn't match my presentation, but because I didn't look my actual age.  Hee-hee!

[Elis]

Nice idea but I'd rather still not out myself

I was reading an article about a woman in Canada who just gave birth and decided not to put the sex of her child on their birth certificate so that when they're older the child can decide for themselves what gender they are. To me this makes so much sense and needs to become the norm.

[eyesk8rboi]

Nice idea but I'd rather still not out myself

I was reading an article about a woman in Canada who just gave birth and decided not to put the sex of her child on their birth certificate so that when they're older the child can decide for themselves what gender they are. To me this makes so much sense and needs to become the norm.

WHY ARE WE NOT FUNDING THIS??

[Elis]

WHY ARE WE NOT FUNDING THIS??

I know right 

[Dan]

Nice idea but I'd rather still not out myself

I was reading an article about a woman in Canada who just gave birth and decided not to put the sex of her child on their birth certificate so that when they're older the child can decide for themselves what gender they are. To me this makes so much sense and needs to become the norm.

That should be the norm. It might just increase awareness that gender is an extreme social construct and that we need to allow kids the freedom to find their own way to express their gender identity. In the end, of course, we all find our own way, but at least it won't be suppressed from day one of our entry onto this planet.

In relation to the 'id' card. It's a good one. It will help during the transition phase, though it's damned easy to get one's gender marker changed in Australia. A letter from a medical practitioner is enough. Bang. Done. Start changing the marker on passport, driver's license etc.

[Elis]

That should be the norm. It might just increase awareness that gender is an extreme social construct and that we need to allow kids the freedom to find their own way to express their gender identity. In the end, of course, we all find our own way, but at least it won't be suppressed from day one of our entry onto this planet.

In relation to the 'id' card. It's a good one. It will help during the transition phase, though it's damned easy to get one's gender marker changed in Australia. A letter from a medical practitioner is enough. Bang. Done. Start changing the marker on passport, driver's license etc.

Agree. It's strange how biologists have known for a few years now that gender and sex are two completely different things and sometimes aren't related; yet this is ignored due to it being 'too political'.

It's like that in the UK. All you need to do is get a letter from your doctor saying your change of gender is permanent and you can now then get what you've mentioned changed to the right gender. Acquiring a new birth certificate is trickier though and unethical.

I don't get why in America they make it so unnecessarily difficult

[eyesk8rboi]

That should be the norm. It might just increase awareness that gender is an extreme social construct and that we need to allow kids the freedom to find their own way to express their gender identity. In the end, of course, we all find our own way, but at least it won't be suppressed from day one of our entry onto this planet.

In relation to the 'id' card. It's a good one. It will help during the transition phase, though it's damned easy to get one's gender marker changed in Australia. A letter from a medical practitioner is enough. Bang. Done. Start changing the marker on passport, driver's license etc.

Agree. It's strange how biologists have known for a few years now that gender and sex are two completely different things and sometimes aren't related; yet this is ignored due to it being 'too political'.

It's like that in the UK. All you need to do is get a letter from your doctor saying your change of gender is permanent and you can now then get what you've mentioned changed to the right gender. Acquiring a new birth certificate is trickier though and unethical.

I don't get why in America they make it so unnecessarily difficult

That's all you need here in the US as well, surprisingly...At least in the state I currently live in. My only issue is money - It's not that changing your ID is expensive, I'm still paying on my car so I have to have full coverage, which in my home town was really cheap, and here is like very expensive....So I have to pay my car off before I can get everything switched over to this state as a resident or I'll have more bills than I can pay. 

I am looking forward to learning how to do all that stuff though, I've been through a name change before, when my step father adopted me, but it was only for my last name and I was young so I didn't handle any of it except going to court with my parents to sign the papers and going to SS office with my mother to pick up my new card.

[N A]

Ok, I'm curious now and by no means intend to shoot down your ideas, but

I was reading an article about a woman in Canada who just gave birth and decided not to put the sex of her child on their birth certificate so that when they're older the child can decide for themselves what gender they are. To me this makes so much sense and needs to become the norm.

It's strange how biologists have known for a few years now that gender and sex are two completely different things and sometimes aren't related; yet this is ignored due to it being 'too political'.

So let me get this straight... in your view
-sex and gender are two different things
-you want sex markers by default to be based on perceived gender, not biological sex

??

Okay, let's assume your sex marker depends on your perceived gender only, not a biological one, and that marker will be put in your id once you're old enough to decide which one do you identify with (how many options would there be available?). But since biological sex has certain medical and physical implications, at least medical staff would have to come up with new terms to describe a person that has what we now call typical male or female genitalia. What would those terms be? 

And if you think there's no point in having any indicator of your biological sex in your id whatsoever, then what's your motivation for putting your gender marker in there? Is it there just to boost your ego or would it help officials to identify you more easily (I reckon gender identity is independent of your body, clothing style, manners etc?)?

I mean, I get that the idea of not having to disclose your sex is endearing to someone who's trans, but honestly I doubt that a quick fix such as getting rid of sex markers/not disclosing a kid's sex is going to be the answer... unfortunately. There are probably some other, more practical means to increase trans awareness and acceptance, I think.

[Elis]

Ok, I'm curious now and by no means intend to shoot down your ideas, but

So let me get this straight... in your view
-sex and gender are two different things
-you want sex markers by default to be based on perceived gender, not biological sex

??

Okay, let's assume your sex marker depends on your perceived gender only, not a biological one, and that marker will be put in your id once you're old enough to decide which one do you identify with (how many options would there be available?). But since biological sex has certain medical and physical implications, at least medical staff would have to come up with new terms to describe a person that has what we now call typical male or female genitalia. What would those terms be? 

And if you think there's no point in having any indicator of your biological sex in your id whatsoever, then what's your motivation for putting your gender marker in there? Is it there just to boost your ego or would it help officials to identify you more easily (I reckon gender identity is independent of your body, clothing style, manners etc?)?

I mean, I get that the idea of not having to disclose your sex is endearing to someone who's trans, but honestly I doubt that a quick fix such as getting rid of sex markers/not disclosing a kid's sex is going to be the answer... unfortunately. There are probably some other, more practical means to increase trans awareness and acceptance, I think.

I think that you should have both on your birth certificate; your sex (male or female reproductive parts or intersex) and then your gender. What parts you have is still an important thing for doctors to know in order to give the right care. And when you're old enough you can put your gender down as male, female or nonbinary. I agree that the different nb identities can get confusing so it works that nb is an umbrella term for different identities.

Putting the right gender on ids is important for trans people to simply feel validated. And so that officials or whoever know what to refer to you as. As well as in government polls as the wrong gender can scue the results.

I think we need tk get away from the notion that what sex parts you happen to be born with equals what you're gender will definitely be. Once it becomes the norm to put sex and gender on birth certificates people will become more accepting of trans people as they'll understand sex doesn't equal gender; which is what confuses cis people the most.

[N A]

I think that you should have both on your birth certificate; your sex (male or female reproductive parts or intersex) and then your gender. What parts you have is still an important thing for doctors to know in order to give the right care. And when you're old enough you can put your gender down as male, female or nonbinary. I agree that the different nb identities can get confusing so it works that nb is an umbrella term for different identities.

Putting the right gender on ids is important for trans people to simply feel validated. And so that officials or whoever know what to refer to you as. As well as in government polls as the wrong gender can scue the results.

I think we need tk get away from the notion that what sex parts you happen to be born with equals what you're gender will definitely be. Once it becomes the norm to put sex and gender on birth certificates people will become more accepting of trans people as they'll understand sex doesn't equal gender; which is what confuses cis people the most.

I see. Thanks for clarification - I may not always be agreeing with all these ideas but I'm genuinely happy to get different views on things.

I agree with you in that I'd keep biological sex marker in at least some IDs, for medical purposes and for various officials to better identify people if need be. I think I also get what you're saying about feeling validated, although for me personally that is perhaps not that big of a deal. Maybe that's partly because I find it hard to put an exact label on my gender identity in the first place, and I suppose for some people this can vary over time as well. I wouldn't find it useful in my passport or driving licence. I'm also extremely lucky bastard in that my native language does not have gender pronouns. But now that you said it, I can also see your point about being referred to with correct pronoun.

Well, I'm still not 100% sold for this idea (mostly because I find defining gender very hard, and I'm not convinced this is quite enough to get cis folks on board with us, and few other reasons) but maybe it's just that I lack imagination...

Ahhh I could actually go on about this topic for longer but now I've gotta go get some sleep ->

[Kylo]

A child without a gender... It would be a very difficult concept to imagine or introduce to languages such as Russian and Slavic languages that are strict in the delineation between male and female (the ending of words and even surnames change according to whether one is male or female, there is no "in between" or genderless way to speak). That child would be up against a problem just saying their own name or every time they refer to themselves doing something in one of these languages. Sounds like something that could possibly wash in the English-speaking world but not in every other one. I doubt it would be entertained in Russia because of the sheer difficulty this presents.

I mean in Slavics, you could use a neuter form in descriptors, but this is considered sarcastic or offensive to use of animate objects like people. Someone calling themselves "they" or some other neutral in these languages is not going to work very well as it might in English. A person would have to choose a gender to speak of themselves, or else use a neutral term reserved for animals or inanimate objects, which would be strange or demeaning.

Regards the birth certificate, the word gender used to mean sex before it changed somehow to mean presentation. I mean how can someone communicate their preferred gender at the time of birth? It's just for identification, medical and admin categorization purposes. In which case, 'gender' isn't required information, it's private information, really. Only sex is needed.

Medical doctors still need to know about sex when treating someone. The parent choosing to keep their child genderless is going to put them at risk if they don't allow for a sex categorization by doctors. . .

[Jacqueline]

Ok, I'm curious now and by no means intend to shoot down your ideas, but

So let me get this straight... in your view
-sex and gender are two different things
-you want sex markers by default to be based on perceived gender, not biological sex

??

Okay, let's assume your sex marker depends on your perceived gender only, not a biological one, and that marker will be put in your id once you're old enough to decide which one do you identify with (how many options would there be available?). But since biological sex has certain medical and physical implications, at least medical staff would have to come up with new terms to describe a person that has what we now call typical male or female genitalia. What would those terms be? 

And if you think there's no point in having any indicator of your biological sex in your id whatsoever, then what's your motivation for putting your gender marker in there? Is it there just to boost your ego or would it help officials to identify you more easily (I reckon gender identity is independent of your body, clothing style, manners etc?)?

I mean, I get that the idea of not having to disclose your sex is endearing to someone who's trans, but honestly I doubt that a quick fix such as getting rid of sex markers/not disclosing a kid's sex is going to be the answer... unfortunately. There are probably some other, more practical means to increase trans awareness and acceptance, I think.

I would like to add on a few other reasons why gender markers are important on official IDs.

First is insurance defines ones entire medical life. I am not full time yet but close so my IDs are still with my male name. While my endocrinologists practice and lab has my preferred name on their charts, my male name shows up as the official name(from insurance). My last visit went swimmingly till I waited to have blood drawn and the technician called into the waiting room by my male name. I tried to demurely get up, walk to the tech and not lose composure, though I was obviously presenting female. It is a center for adult and child endo issues. So, lots of people in the waiting room. For some people that would be enough to trigger a major breakdown. Whether out of embarrassment, discomfort or outrage. Imagine if I were full time, perhaps having proceeded to a full transition with surgeries but did not have my insurance card changed...

Similarly birth certificates and drivers licenses define who one is no matter how one is presenting. The best (worst)examples I can think of are the many instances were trans women have been arrested and due to their ID placed in cells with cis males. Many police departments would not do that but there have been many who already have.  It is not only uncomfortable but downright dangerous.

Last would be on a passport. One's passport and tickets have to match a person's ID are encouraged to match how they present. If one is full time and has not clothing left or way of presenting in the previous gender ID, it can be tough for all of the above reasons. This is why when able so many of us go stealth.

Thanks for listening.

Sincerely,

Jacqueline

[DawnOday]

I don't get why in America they make it so unnecessarily difficult.

Bigotry and false flag Christians that have their "faith" questioned. It's not faith its prejudice enforced by church leadership.

[N A]

I would like to add on a few other reasons why gender markers are important on official IDs.

Jacqueline, I'm sorry you had to go through that in the waiting room. You would think the staff in such places would be more sensitive!

I do agree that we need to find a way to avoid this kind of incidents. And I absolutely think that no one should ever be outed against their will, unless it's a medical emergency or something alike. But in a situation you just described, wouldn't it be handy if there was some sort of "optional" gender marker/information line included in your ID in case the sex in the ID doesn't match the presentation of the person? Or wouldn't it be handy to have an option to change your sex marker as soon as you feel comfortable doing so? This would require some change in legislation, but so would the  original idea we were contemplating in this thread.

To me it's still unclear whether you would rather exclude sex marker from IDs, or have it based on one's own announcement regarding their identity, or include both sex marker and gender marker to inform about person's biological sex and gender identity, respectively. But if you have some solution concept in mind, I would of course like to hear it.

This should go without saying, but since this can be touchy subject I'd like to add that I'm not suggesting that those who transition should stick with whatever they were assigned with at birth. I see no problem people changing their sex marker once they start HRT/real life experience/feel comfortable doing so. But I have to admit that the idea of having both sex marker AND gender marker, or having only gender marker based on one's own announcement sounds a bit problematic to me.

Now I know I'm being a bit selfish with this particular one, but I would like to give an example too. I am AFAB but identify as trans (or as I would like to put it, I'm running on male software in female hardware). I'm not really out at work and do not wish to out myself in professional settings anyway. That said, having to disclose personal information such as my gender identity would put me in a difficult situation. On one hand I would not want it to read in my ID that I identify as a female, because that's simply not true. But on the other, I wouldn't necessarily want to out myself as trans either, because in my view that's nobody's business until I decide it is.

Finally I have to say that Viktor pretty much captured my thoughts on this subject in his post above. I think he put it way better than I could.