I don't think I'm trans anymore

[Jayne01]

It hurts so much. What I am feeling right now is the worst most raw pain I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe it.

[Mariah]

Jayne, that is very common to feel that way. Your struggling to under what is going on along with fighting yourself over everything. Let alone what your spouse said to you is only causing you to hurt more. Fact is it does get better in time and therapy is a huge part of that. Secondly, you need to stop fighting yourself because it is only causing you more pain right now. Hugs
Mariah

It hurts so much. What I am feeling right now is the worst most raw pain I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe it.

[Janes Groove]

From what you are sharing it sounds like your basic conflict is between the way you feel you are, i.e. transgender, and the way your wife wants or demands you to be, i.e. cisgender.

So I'm going to share/paraphrase with you something now that my therapist (who btw has been doing this for many years and has helped many people successfully transition) told me that was central to my process:

"In my experience, the people who are most successful transitioning are the ones who have support from other people."

If your wife is drawing a red line here, and you feel that you can't live without her, then that's they main problem that you have to address.  It sounds like she is making it a choice for you between being happy and healthy or staying stuck in the miserable place that you find yourself in now.
If she is unwilling or unable to offer the support you need then I would suggest you seek that support elsewhere.

[HoneyStrums]

It hurts so much. What I am feeling right now is the worst most raw pain I have ever experienced. I can't even begin to describe it.

If you don't mind, besides this voice? Is their anything ells about you, that could be responsible for feeling as though you should of been born a girl? eg, Your favourite colour is pink. (Not saying it is, just an example)
I'm trying to figure out, what is it about you that makes you feel "not normal"

Because, I saw you say your a man? This could be denile or It could be That you actually are a man, that for some reason feels as though they are not normal, if this is the case, besides the voice you hear, what about you if anything make you feel not normal?

Some or your Likes, dis-likes, some hopes? Desires? or Dreams?
If so, what are they?

Describe a normal man?
Are you like that? if not, what ways are you different?
Please, share them if you will.

A lot of your distress could be stemming from not conforming to a stereo type. And I can tell you, no two men are the same. And men differ more then you might think, because a lot of men, Hide the ways they don't conform to the stereo type. And some men will put other men down and insult them, often using femininity as an insult when another man doesn't conform to this stereo type. And in some cases, the men they insult differ in a way they themselves differ and this insulting is done by way of hiding their own insecurities.

(Disclaimer I am not saying all men do this, only some)

I just want to understand YOU better, most of us here understand transgender in our own ways, However each and everyone of us here are all so very different. I saw you mention, that you chose a woman's name, because you figured that men who come here choose woman's names. That is not the case, for the most part, it is the woman here that choose woman's names, and the men men's names.

I only point this out, because this type of action is called, social conformity, Doing what you believe is supposed to be done, and/or what you expects is expected of you. Is this how you are away from here? Do you want to do and be able to do what is expected of you? Do you desire to be the way other people say a man should be?

This type of thinking Is very harmful for everyone's, emotional well being. And I do mean everyone's. Man Woman, Trans and CIS alike. This Hurts and causes us to be ashamed of our selves for the ways we don't as individuals conform to what is expected. Social Expectations, are partly a result of Peer pressure. Do you feel pressure to be a certain way? Are you Insulted for not being "Normal"

Please for you safety forget trying to be normal, Be yourself, a person, an individual, Because the real normal, is being yourself. Because we as individuals, ourselves is all anyone ever should be.

And Although this site, is a transgender support site, Before many of us came out, we spend years of our lives trying to be "Normal" and its not until we realise the expected Normal is an illusion, that we are able to live much more peacefully, by moving toward the true normal of individuality. And freedom of expression.

And if you are here as a CIS man who feels as though they are not normal due to social expectations, that too is something many of us can help you with too. Being a member of this site doesn't mean you are trans. And you dont need to be trans to be a member either.

[Jayne01]

After continuous crying for a couple of hours and then falling asleep, I now feel a little better. Thank you all for your support.

I should clarify some things. My wife has not given me any kind of ultimatum. I know she loves me the way I love her and she is trying very hard and doing the best she can. We both try and support each other through this process. I think what happened yesterday was that we both had a very bad day, each for our own reasons. We both ended up at our worst at the same time, so neither of us was in a clear mental state to support the other.

In the recent post I made where I said I was a man, that was out of sheer frustration. Being a normal man with normal guy problems is something I can handle and something that I wish was true. Instead I am not a normal man, I am transgender with all the problems and hardships that come with being transgender. That is something that I am not handling very well, so I have frequent breakdowns.

The reason I chose the username  Jayne when I first joined 2 years ago was a simple process, at least it seemed simple to me. I wanted an anonymous name. My real name is John, an anonymous person is referred to as John Doe for a male and Jane Doe for a female. Since I was questioning my gender, I went with Jane, and I changed the spelling to Jayne because I liked it better that way. I am not good at coming up with creative names. It's just a twist on the name I already have.

I have felt a huge amount of disappointment by not having any reaction to the HRT. I have read so many reports that starting hormones makes people feel better almost immediately and st the very least it allows them to think more clearly. I have not experienced any of that. As I have mentioned before in this thread and other threads, the hormones have had zero effect on me. When I first joined here, people used to tell me I should try hormones as a form of test. If I am trans, then I will feel better. If I am big trans, then I will feel worse. I haven't felt better or worse. You could argue that taking hormones has made me feel worse due to not making me feel any different. So I used that flimsy logic to say that I am not trans. If I could make myself not be trans, life would be so much easier, so I have a deep desire to not be trans. But that desire may as well be a wish for the sun to rise in the west and set in the east, it just isn't going to happen.

I am unable to describe to you my likes and dislikes and give you reasons why I think I might be trans. That requires a level of self understanding which I do not possess. All I can say is that after 2 years of intense therapy, I can now identify a "feeling", for which there is no logical explanation, that tells me I should be female. I am unable to put my inner thoughts and emotions into words. I don't have that capability, I never have. That may be part of the reason why I am struggling so much with this. It takes a lot of effort for someone on the outside to understand me. They have to really get inside my head and understand how my mind works to be able to truly "get" me. My therapist has managed to do that. She has become my closest and dearest friend after my wife, because she is the only person who understands how my brain works. With her help, I just "know" that I am trans. That is the best explanation I can give you as to why I think I am transgender. It's not much of an explanation, but that's the best I can do.

I see my therapist today. Hopefully she will reboot my brain the way she usually does and I will be back to my "normal" self.

[HoneyStrums]

The reason I chose the username  Jayne when I first joined 2 years ago was a simple process, at least it seemed simple to me. I wanted an anonymous name. My real name is John, an anonymous person is referred to as John Doe for a male and Jane Doe for a female. Since I was questioning my gender, I went with Jane, and I changed the spelling to Jayne because I liked it better that way.

Smiles, Its good to have things you like in your life. And im glad that you a have something here you like, when you visit. Even if ti is, just a name. (Names make all the difference), Im glad your Feeling Better.

[Janes Groove]

I should clarify some things. My wife has not given me any kind of ultimatum. I know she loves me the way I love her and she is trying very hard and doing the best she can. We both try and support each other through this process. I think what happened yesterday was that we both had a very bad day, each for our own reasons. We both ended up at our worst at the same time, so neither of us was in a clear mental state to support the other.

You say your wife is supportive and I won't disagree with you but is that support supported by the real story.   Scanning thru your previous posts, since you reactivated a couple of weeks ago, time and again you come back to the same theme. "I want to transition, but I don't want to hurt my wife."  Is your wife fully aware of how you are sacrificing yourself and how miserable you feel all the time? 

[Jayne01]

Absolutely! She is very painfully aware how distressed I am. But I am also aware how distressed she is. For her, her husband and her dreams are disappearing before her eyes. I can't take from her the chance to grieve what she believes to be losing. It is true that I will always be the same person on the inside despite what I may end up looking like on the outside. I may very well end up a much happier and better person. She needs time to process any changes just as much as I do.
It kills me to see her in any kind of pain, especially knowing that I am the cause of the pain. It is not my fault I am trans, but it is because I am trans that she is in pain. I would do anything to ease her pain, including sacrifice my own happiness. I just haven't found a way to do that without causing her more pain, because she cannot stand to see me suffering.

It is very complicated and seems that there is no solution. I think the only solution that would work is to go as slow as possible and give each other time to adapt.

Also, when I say I "want" to transition, that isn't entirely true. It's my inability to find the right words. I "want", or have an inner desire, to transition because that would make me the female that the voice inside me wants me to be. But I don't want to want to transition. Does that make any sense? I'm sorry, but I'm not good at choosing the right words to describe feelings.

[HoneyStrums]

I think I understand a bit more.

Your transgender. You love your wife, and although you want to be normal not transgender, like we all do. For you this normalness, for lack of a better word, is toward the masculine side because of how much you love your wife and don't want to loose her.. see her go though the pain she is going through as a result of your transition?

You do want to transition. Your inner voice, your inner most desire, your consciousness, and/or your Soul is telling you this. However what this will cause, is causing, or might cause, is something that you don't want, and/or wish wasn't happening.

Is that about right?

[Jayne01]

That is more or less correct. Even if my wife was 100% ok with me transitioning, it would still feel like a devastating blow to go down the transition path. It's not how I thought my life would pan out. We should be on top of the world right now. We recently paid off our mortgage, I have a very good job that I enjoy, we get to travel around the world more than most people. We have a great life. If I start transitioning, it feels like we would be setting ourselves back years with increased expenses and spending most of my free time doing trans stuff (electrolysis, therapist, etc) rather than doing fun things. It feels like all the hard work we put into paying our mortgage as quickly as possible has not had the exciting result it should have had. Our struggles have shifted from financial to completely life changing.

[HoneyStrums]

That is more or less correct. Even if my wife was 100% ok with me transitioning, it would still feel like a devastating blow to go down the transition path. It's not how I thought my life would pan out. We should be on top of the world right now. We recently paid off our mortgage, I have a very good job that I enjoy, we get to travel around the world more than most people. We have a great life. If I start transitioning, it feels like we would be setting ourselves back years with increased expenses and spending most of my free time doing trans stuff (electrolysis, therapist, etc) rather than doing fun things. It feels like all the hard work we put into paying our mortgage as quickly as possible has not had the exciting result it should have had. Our struggles have shifted from financial to completely life changing.

You can make going foe electrolysis trips fun. Make A day out of it. Get a later appointment, and spend some time doing other stuff before.

Any Ideas? eg, visiting different cafe's.


Transitioning, doesn't need to take over your life does it?

[Jayne01]

Electrolysis or going to the therapist or endo is a whole day event. It takes me 2 hours to get to each of those places, 2 hours to get back plus the appointment time. Electrolysis I have been doing in 3 and sometimes 4 hour sessions to get it over and done with. So each of those events is basically a whole day outing which leaves no time to do anything else. My life is work and trans stuff......

[HoneyStrums]

Electrolysis or going to the therapist or endo is a whole day event. It takes me 2 hours to get to each of those places, 2 hours to get back plus the appointment time. Electrolysis I have been doing in 3 and sometimes 4 hour sessions to get it over and done with. So each of those events is basically a whole day outing which leaves no time to do anything else. My life is work and trans stuff......

So, your making, something you wish you didn't have to do, take up an entire day? Without, Anytime spent on things you do want to do? If you have 3 hours to spend getting Electrolysis, Surely you can sacrifice, some of that time to spend doing more enjoyable things with your wife? It might go a long way towards making being trans less of an inconvenience for you both.

Does your wife go with you to your therapist? Doing as much of your talking about trans stuff with her at these appointments, Might mean less arguments about it, and more time to talk about none trans things with each other

Its Gone 1am Here I need to go to sleep. Illl check back after work to morrow. Untill then. Take care

[Jayne01]

My wife comes to some therapist appointments. I work odd hours. We don't get too many days off together. I try to leave those days free where possible and cram the trans stuff into the days she is working.

You misunderstand, we don't have arguments. We are both hurting badly with the trans stuff and neither of us are very good at putting our emotions into words.

Sleep well. Thank you for your input. I appreciate you taking the time to help.

[Jayne01]

Today I have been busy with my car. I have it for sale and someone was coming to look at it. As it turned out, they agreed to buy it. All morning, I have not felt the dysphoria like I have in the past. When I noticed it wasn't there, I thought to myself I don't even want to be a girl. I am happy the way I am.
This whole back and forth is making me crazy. Why can't my brain just pick a side and stay there so I can make some kind of decision?

[Sno]

Have the meds finally started to kick in.?? Watching this space....

Rowan

[Jayne01]

I honestly don't know what is happening with the meds. I can't say that I feel better or worse. It is causing me great confusion. Add to that the moments where I am convinced that I absolutely don't want to be female and actually seem happy being a guy, followed by moments where the dysphoria goes off the charts. I can't get my head around what is going on. I have never been someone who can understand my own emotions. I can't identify what my feelings are. It is like a foreign language that I don't understand.

At my last therapy session, my therapist suggested that I just stay on the hormones for about 3 months and just wait to see what physical changes may happen. Then, maybe the physical changes might trigger an emotional response that I can understand. I have increased my dosage again. I am now on the maximum dose my dr recommended before I go back to see him in about 4 weeks.

So to answer your question? No, I am not noticing anything from the meds.

[HoneyStrums]

Add to that the moments where I am convinced that I absolutely don't want to be female and actually seem happy being a guy, followed by moments where the dysphoria goes off the charts

When you say Dont want to be female, is that because you feel happy as a guy?
And when you say happy as a guy, do you say guy because your in guy mode?

Although you are in guy mode, your still on hormones, the hormaons could be contributing to your happiness, do you think that might be the case?

If this is the case, confusing being happy in guy mode mode, as happy as a guy, and then feeling as though you dont need to be female, might be causing your dysphoria spike.

[Jayne01]

When you say Dont want to be female, is that because you feel happy as a guy?
And when you say happy as a guy, do you say guy because your in guy mode?

When I say "don't want to be female" I mean there are times when the dysphoria is gone and I am happy doing what I am doing as male me. During those times, if I notice the dysphoria is gone, I try to think if I want to be a girl and the answer is "no". I just feel like a normal guy. I don't want female parts or any of it.

Then something will happen and my dysphoria would get triggered and I want to be a girl again. It is very confusing.

Although you are in guy mode, your still on hormones, the hormaons could be contributing to your happiness, do you think that might be the case?

I wondered if it was the hormones making me feel this way, but these moments are not new. They existed before I started hormones.

If this is the case, confusing being happy in guy mode mode, as happy as a guy, and then feeling as though you dont need to be female, might be causing your dysphoria spike.

I don't know if I understand what you mean. If by guy mode you mean that I know I am a woman but presenting as a guy, then that is not what I am feeling.......I think???!? I am happy to be a guy. Those moments make me doubt I am trans at all. It causes me great distress having these guy moments and then all of a sudden the dysphoria kicks in and throws my brain into meltdown.

I don't have the ability to distinguish between knowing if what I am feeling is the root cause or a reaction to another feeling. In other words, I don't know if I am happy as a normal cis guy or if the happiness is a reaction to something else. And then when I think I should be female, I don't know if that is a real deep down desire or a reaction to something else. I can't apply any kind of logic to any of this so that it makes sense to me. I was hoping the hormones would help remove some of this confusion, but it seems the confusion has only become worse.

[zirconia]

Jayne,

When I say "don't want to be female" I mean there are times when the dysphoria is gone and I am happy doing what I am doing as male me. During those times, if I notice the dysphoria is gone, I try to think if I want to be a girl and the answer is "no". I just feel like a normal guy. I don't want female parts or any of it.

Something bothers me, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Please let me ramble a bit as try to find out what it is.

I'm happiest when I'm not thinking of anything gender related. When I do think of it I get a sense of something being wrong. I guess that sense of wrongness is what people refer to as dysphoria.

Now, when I'm happy I don't think about being male or female. What jolts me away from that happiness is when something brings home that I'm not what feels right to me.

Due to this even the ostensibly positive fact that strangers I meet assume me to be female and treat me as such causes conflict because I think I must be either consciously or unconsciously ensorcelling them to think so.

Based on what little I know about completely normal males and females, they seem to mostly think about being what they are when it somehow brings them joy. It usually seems somehow related to some physical, social or sexual aspect. That joy seems to be unambiguously reaffirming.

"This is what I am. It makes me happy."

Any happiness I feel about these aspects, on the other hand, is bittersweet.

"This is good. I like it—but it doesn't bring satisfaction or happiness."

What I do know is that in my case skills, knowledge and aptitudes can be unambiguously satisfying. Although a part of what makes me me they are also irrelevant to what I am. When I hold a camera I'm using a skill and feel happy. When in front of a camera I feel like a deer facing headlights. The result, whatever it may be is not me. (A good photographer presents to the world the not the object itself, but the attraction—whether it be beauty or hideousness—that draws him to eternalize it.)

While some men seem to think being male is a perquisite to their abilities, to me physical and mental capabilities are safe and neutral. I'm physically strong. I like balancing. I can find out how things work and how to make them work better. People ask me to do things based on other things they've seen me do. I like all of that.

However, if the above would hinge on me being brawny and rough and having a beard that would cover all of my face except for the eyes and nose it would only make me feel unhappy.

Ah. Here it is.

Jayne, when you're happy doing something as a male and the dysphoria is gone, do you think the "as a male" part contributes more to the happiness you feel, or the "doing something?" If the former (as a male) is essential, then I do understand your confusion. If the latter (doing something) is the key, could it perhaps be that you simply feel good and don't feel dysphoria because you're doing something you like, and the "as a male" part it is not very relevant?