The girl with the expensive tears!

[melissa90299]

I have had some PMs with Blair, and I will let her tell you what she has decided but I know she will be fabulous, I mean absolutely stunning! Why be "passable" when you can be one of the it girls (like myself!) No, really, my life has become magical, simply marvelous, and beyond my WILDEST dreams. I could regret that I this wasn't available earlier in my life. But to the contrary, I LOVE seeing  younger girls get to enjoy this.

I am glad that Doug is training predecessors but let's face it, there is only one Michaelangelo, one Leonardo Da Vinci. One Ella.

BTW I agree that the trends start here, I could easily list a hundred of them but I have no need to try to win arguments with minds that are closed. Regardless, it is going to be harder and harder to "pass" as the general populace becomes more and more trans-aware. Hopefully, when that happens, tolerance will come with it. In SF, even the "it girls" get clocked but no one cares. Amazingly, just travel down the peninsula and the awareness drops remarkably.

[Nero]

wow It's the East coast vs West Coast wars!

[melissa90299]

Girls on the East Coast still use acrylic nails! Ugh!

Of course, there are only two kinds of people, those who live in San Francisco and those who wish they could. It is called Peninsula Envy. LOL

[Omika]

My whole father's side of the family has been living in San Francisco since the turn of the century.  It is Armenian, and my grandfather was an engineer (one of the chief engineers who was in charge of the building of the bay bridge, in fact.)  My dad moved away when he was young, and I only visited three times a year or so to see my extended family (conveniently my mother's family lived in the nearby Napa valley.)

Anyways, my father died a few months ago after a long battle with cancer.  It shook me pretty hard.  He was a truly beautiful human being, and he's responsible for shaping me into the good person I am today.  That combined with a recent opportunity and information I've learned about benefits for trans people in SF has compelled me to move there in the next couple of months.

So, I don't know what all this arguing is about. 

Trends?  Fashion?  Who cares?  I think when they say San Fran is "20 years ahead" they don't mean they're dressing in space-age fashion and using nanite medical technology.  It means they're 20 years ahead in terms of treating and recognizing people as human beings with city ordinances, laws and local politics.

You're talking to a girl who, after getting her FFS, is going to stick metal piercings in her face, put on heavy goth makeup and start collecting leather.  Hell, I'm already doing it.

Fashion?  I don't need New York or Chicago to tell me what to wear or listen to.  I wear what I feel represents my soul, and I listen to the music I love, which happens to be a combination of european goth metal, electronica, 80's pop, synthpop and cybertronic.

As far as I'm concerned, I am the 21st century.

~ BB

P.S. Amy T., you have some serious venom in your words sometimes.  I don't understand why.  Your monologue about how I needed FFS in order to function properly as a human being because I was so monstrous looking kind of took a girl who was in an already fragile state and destroyed what little self confidence she was trying to build.  (The thread in question is now deleted.)

I believe you said yourself it is impossible to determine anything from one picture, and yet that didn't stop you from driving me into the ground.

Yes I'm being personal.  Personally, your sharp tone hurts my feelings, and I'll note that while Melissa has made an effort to help me move in the right direction through PMs, and given my confidence a little boost, you've done nothing but turn this thread into an argument of "east vs. west" that rivals the rap industry in terms of sheer irrelevance and stupidity.

If you have nothing constructive to say, stop positing in this thread, please.

And as I said before, I looked around.  Dr. Ousterhout is the most expensive by a scarce amount.  So your advice earlier, while it was appreciated for causing me to doubt someone incredibly reputable and kind, is now rendered impotent.  Thanks anyways.

With all that said, REPRIMAND ME!

[tekla]

Kind of like rappers, but with different underwear. 

We should be punished.  And I know just where to start.  Stop using any computer with an AMD or Intel processor - and for god's sake, dump that Apple and that HP printer.  And the net?  Get off it, because its just one darn Cisco product after the other (Cisco Systems, of course, short for San FranCISCO).

Oh yeah, and that TV, get rid of it.  Not only are most shows (except soap operas) filmed here, but the darn thing was even invented in San Fran by Philo T. Farnsworth on September 7, 1927 when he first demonstrated it down at his lab on 202 Green Street (X Sansome).  (according to the U.S. Patent Office, after years, and years, and decades of lawsuits.)

And the East Coasters are right.  We are nuts.  After all, what's Christmas without having to dig out from tons of snow.  Another brutal Christmas at the beach having to be concerned if our ornaments are going to melt in the sun. Ickky.  Heck, I know more people who are worried about when Mavericks' is going to be called then when Christmas is.

Rents are high, apartments are small - OK, NYC is like that too.

But, in all honesty, this is good.  Its good to have a sense of place.  Of being in a place where you chose to be.  And liking that place and space too.  I love New York.  I have a great time whenever I'm there.  I remember fondly my evenings at the old Edelweiss in Hell's Kitchen.  And contrary to the notion that people in NYC are a bunch of a**holes, they are about the most friendly people I've ever met in my travels.  I've never had a bad time there. 

And I think that one of the things that NYC/SF/LA and other places like that have in common is that everyone is busy.  Small towns where everyone is a Nosy Parker, it ain't happening in major cities.  "Your misfortune and none of my own" is more the order of the day.  There is enough going on that that everyone can have their place.  Its not "spot the ->-bleeped-<-" as much as its "assume the ->-bleeped-<-."  It might be their life, or just one night - either way its all good.  If boys want to be girls, girls boys, date each other, date themselves or not date anyone - its cool.  Because, really, I'm way too busy to care much. Because I have to be at work, then meet a friend for coffee at Tully's and I have a 4 o'clock appointment a the Apple store for a workshop, and Macy's is having a sale, I want to go to the Virgin Megastore and get a DVD, and I'm meeting someone else for dinner at Cancun, and I have to be back at work but I want to go to the bookstore on the way, and yeesh, I'm tired.  And that's on the days when I'm not working from 9am to 2am - after 16 hours you really don't care about much but sleep.  So I don't even care if that's two boys holding hands, or two girls - or a couple of who knows.

[melissa90299]

LOL! Yeah the only thing wrong with life in the city is that we haven't figured out how to make a day at least 30 hours instead of 24. There is so much to do.

[tekla]

Go with what works.  I've seen many examples of Dr. Os' work, and he does good work.  And given the effects of bad work, I would think it would be worth it.  Given a choice between FFS and SRS I think I'd pick the former because everyone sees your face, and (hopefully) not everyone will see the naughty bits.

I know he has people come to him from all over the country, from all over the world.  And, as has been stated, the cost difference between him and the second or third best is not all that much.

Its your life, what would make you happy?  Figure that out, and go from there.

[Ell]

Kind of like rappers, but with different underwear. 

We should be punished.  And I know just where to start.  Stop using any computer with an AMD or Intel processor - and for god's sake, dump that Apple and that HP printer.  And the net?  Get off it, because its just one darn Cisco product after the other (Cisco Systems, of course, short for San FranCISCO).

Oh yeah, and that TV, get rid of it.  Not only are most shows (except soap operas) filmed here, but the darn thing was even invented in San Fran by Philo T. Farnsworth on September 7, 1927 when he first demonstrated it down at his lab on 202 Green Street (X Sansome).  (according to the U.S. Patent Office, after years, and years, and decades of lawsuits.)

And the East Coasters are right.  We are nuts.  After all, what's Christmas without having to dig out from tons of snow.  Another brutal Christmas at the beach having to be concerned if our ornaments are going to melt in the sun. Ickky.  Heck, I know more people who are worried about when Mavericks' is going to be called then when Christmas is.

Rents are high, apartments are small - OK, NYC is like that too.

But, in all honesty, this is good.  Its good to have a sense of place.  Of being in a place where you chose to be.  And liking that place and space too.  I love New York.  I have a great time whenever I'm there.  I remember fondly my evenings at the old Edelweiss in Hell's Kitchen.  And contrary to the notion that people in NYC are a bunch of a**holes, they are about the most friendly people I've ever met in my travels.  I've never had a bad time there. 

And I think that one of the things that NYC/SF/LA and other places like that have in common is that everyone is busy.  Small towns where everyone is a Nosy Parker, it ain't happening in major cities.  "Your misfortune and none of my own" is more the order of the day.  There is enough going on that that everyone can have their place.  Its not "spot the ->-bleeped-<-" as much as its "assume the ->-bleeped-<-."  It might be their life, or just one night - either way its all good.  If boys want to be girls, girls boys, date each other, date themselves or not date anyone - its cool.  Because, really, I'm way too busy to care much. Because I have to be at work, then meet a friend for coffee at Tully's and I have a 4 o'clock appointment a the Apple store for a workshop, and Macy's is having a sale, I want to go to the Virgin Megastore and get a DVD, and I'm meeting someone else for dinner at Cancun, and I have to be back at work but I want to go to the bookstore on the way, and yeesh, I'm tired.  And that's on the days when I'm not working from 9am to 2am - after 16 hours you really don't care about much but sleep.  So I don't even care if that's two boys holding hands, or two girls - or a couple of who knows.

Ha ha! nice post.

but to get back to the topic -- what was the topic again? Oh yeah, Dr. O. i was told it would be nuts to go to Dr. O when there are so many other quality surgeons out there. do lots of research, check their track record, review lots of pics of their work. and don't go with the lowest bidder.

but anyway, Blair, you have youthful good looks to start with. my only suggestion in the meantime, would be to sculpt those eyebrows (work from the bottom, to move them farther up away from your eyes).

-ell 

[melissa90299]

Ell, exactly what are you suggesting for Blair's eyebrows? I don't see that she can do much unless she removes her natural brows and creates an artificial line with a pencil and she certainly wouldn't want to do that.

[Ell]

Ell, exactly what are you suggesting for Blair's eyebrows? I don't see that she can do much unless she removes her natural brows and creates an artificial line with a pencil and she certainly wouldn't want to do that.

well, yours, for instance, seem to be much smaller and thinner, more contoured, and well clear of the "puffy area" above the eyes.

i think Blair could stand to go for a more girly look in that regard, too.

i may still have a post here, somewhere, regarding the bottom of the eyebrows.

-ell 

[melissa90299]

OK. I get mine done. It's only $8 but once you get them done, you can maintain them yourself for free. I use a little eyebrow razor when I do that.

[Hypatia]

Eyebrow threading is the best! It's a South Asian technique. I go to a Hindu beauty salon and get my eyebrows threaded every couple weeks. Five minutes, five dollars. Can't be beat.

[cindybc]

Hi Blair hon Don't pay attention to the mean spirited comments. You go right on ahead and do what you feel you need to do to to do to feel comfortable with who you are.

Just between you and me, I try my best to not offend anyone, I don't want to be turned into a toad.  And hey I am still quite into the rock stuff that most people my age find offensive to the ears. 

May God speed and enjoy your life eh.

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 05:13:49 PMHi Ell
That's what I call whatsisits. I remember one time walking down the sidewalk in my hometown beside my dad. The hippie era.... hmmmm now you speak about gender benders with the unisex clothing and both guys and girls looking the same and here I was with the long hair and the unisex clothes and did pass as a girl back then. My dad ups and remarks out loud pointing at a couple ahead of us. I swear, he said, you would have to pull their pants down to tell what they are.

But my dad wasn't mean spirited. he was just a straight out and say it type of guy.

Cindy

[Ell]

Eyebrow threading is the best! It's a South Asian technique. I go to a Hindu beauty salon and get my eyebrows threaded every couple weeks. Five minutes, five dollars. Can't be beat.

every couple of weeks? i just don't understand people, i guess.

i have to pluck at least 20 hairs daily to keep from looking like a Neanderthal.

if i went a couple of weeks, i'd definitely look like a bushmaster.

-ell

[seldom]

Girls on the East Coast still use acrylic nails! Ugh!

Of course, there are only two kinds of people, those who live in San Francisco and those who wish they could. It is called Peninsula Envy. LOL

Keep thinking that.  Seriously.  As far as out west I rather be in Portland or Seattle then the bay city.  Last I checked I cannot think of anything that made it east of the Mississipi that came from San Fransisco.  If you can name 100 trends from San Fran I can probably name 10,000 plus from NYC or Chicago or Boston, from entire musical genres to fashion trends.  Last I checked everything from Punk, to Indie, to Goth, to Emo, to High Style New York stuff, and I could go on and on.  It may be worth if for you to travel outside the Bay to see how little it matters.  The east coast revolves around NYC, the midwest Chicago.  Very few things if anything at all cracks into the sphere of influence of those two cities from San Fransisco or California.  The Northwest, as in Seattle and Olympia occasionally has some influence, Riot Grrl, which was born in Olympia washington and DC really took hold in the midwest.  But lets put it this way, every designer and design comes out of NYC, Chicago has the indie record labels, NYC and Chicago have the theaters, and NYC has the publishers.  Whats in San Fran...umm....seriously.  Get real.  California thinks its a trend setter, but last I checked its the goths who are still there, and they have been passe here in the east for years.  Emo, which was born in the midwest, was well taken in California and warped into something awful, and it was pretty bad to begin with, and I could go on and on.  Right trendsetter, keep thinking that. California does not pick up on stuff till it passes through the subcultures of NYC and Chicago and has become mainstream, whatever it is. 

But the truth is NOTHING from San Fran does not play in Peoria, IL at all.  Or St. Louis, Or the Twin Cities, Or Milwaukee, or NYC, or Boston, or DC, or Philly, or Cleveland.

Also last I checked, the first state and city to pass trans protections  both involved the state of Minnesota, not California.   

PS.  Me and Melissa are known for not getting along.  Same with goes for some other people on this board.   

Oh yeah.  By the way, I am blunt.  I am not the type that will encourage you and tell you look good, if quite simply you don't come close to passing and will need FFS.  It hurts, but guess what, one of the major problems of the community sometimes is lack of honesty.  East coast women, and big city folks from the east be it Chicago, NYC, or DC are not known for being nice all the time to make you feel better.  In fact it bothers us on some level at times that there is that level of dishonesty. I give honest opinions. It hurt you and you were fragile, but you were also fooling yourself.  I am venomous at times as much as you were trying to build up self confidence, sometimes that is NOT a good thing, you were coming off as naive, thinking you looked better than you actually did (which I have to apply to Melissa as well).  If you were the type where you didn't need FFS you would have been the first to find out because I would have said as much. 

If you don't pass you don't pass.  Its as simple as that.  I am honest to the people who do, and the people who don't like yourself feel I am being mean.  I am just being honest thats all. You post a picture and are not close to the stage of passing I will tell you thats the case. 

[Keira]

For what's worth, SFO, the city itself is great, lived there 3 years, though its not as big a city in what it offers than NYC or even Montreal (I've been at least 60 days in 20 trips in New-York city since its so close to Montreal). San-Francisco Its kind of sleepy except very small areas. I lived in North beach (Telegraph hill, but that's just 2 blocks uphill), a bit touristy, but restaurants were good and there were some good bars and cafees. Good place for Jazz.

The weather in SFO is good but cool all your round; it can get on your nerve in the middle of the summer to put a sweater on ;-).

In the rest of the bay area, only Berkeley and certain parts of Oakland near lake Merit (stayed 3 months in one old house in what used to be the posh area of Oakland, and still is in a way) are decent to my eye. The south bay, sucks very hard. I worked in Freemont for many years and lived there for 6 months, I also lived in Mountain View 3 months. They're all undistinguished suburban nightmares.

Southern California! Well, I just can't believe anyone finds it a good place to live except for the weather. I hate suburbs with a passion and its all a suburban mess.

The Marin Headland,Tamalpais area Saratoga area are great for outdoors things, put people in the bay area work so hard to be able to afford living there that they never have time to enjoy it!!!! I worked 80 hours as senior engineer over there.



Anyway, for eyebrows, it depends on your face, if you've got strongly defined eyes, nose, a fleshy mouth, high cheekbones and a high forehead, do not make your eyebrows small in width, the largest width should be at least half the size of your pupil tapering slowly to nothing in a kind of Nike logo thing  . If you have not very define brow ridge, low ridge nose, a low forehead and small lips, you need smaller eyebrows.

Natural, larger eyebrows have been in vogue for 2-3 years. Very thin eyebrows haven't been in since the early 80's, so avoid it at all cost.

[Maud]

you DEFINATELY need FFS to just pass.  No getting around it.

I call bull->-bleeped-<-.

Give 'mones a few months, pluck your eyebrows work on your voice, style your hair nicely and most people can pass ok even if they won't be winning any beauty contests, some women have brow ridges some have large chins, some natal women even fail to pass consistently, the easiest way to pass is to just let go and get on with it.

[Keira]

Hey, I think your both wrong!

HEHE

YOu need to give HRT some time to work.
Though, it can't do miracles.
If after 6 months minimum most people still sir
you, then FFS could be a possibility.
I waited 5 months. I already passed at least 90%,
but I knew some things would bottered me so
I fixed them for thing I could, see tread
Can you live life as target gender without passing
for example of HRT and FFS.

[Ell]

Give 'mones a few months, pluck your eyebrows work on your voice, style your hair nicely and most people can pass ok even if they won't be winning any beauty contests, some women have brow ridges some have large chins, some natal women even fail to pass consistently, the easiest way to pass is to just let go and get on with it.

i'm out and about after four months on HRT, breasts are starting to grow, and some people are really nice to me. other people are looking at me like i'm a mental patient. i wanted to wait a little longer before coming out to the general public, but i can't stand men's clothes, especially the shoes.

[Kate]

If you don't pass you don't pass.  Its as simple as that.  I am honest to the people who do, and the people who don't like yourself feel I am being mean.  I am just being honest thats all. You post a picture and are not close to the stage of passing I will tell you thats the case. 

I get it, but in the end, there's apparently much more to passing than evaluating static facial features, including body shape, expressions and gestures, how one moves and stands, and a myriad of things I doubt we're even conscious of.

I don't pass in photos. Hence my not posting any. But if I DID post them, and everyone pointed out that I don't pass and MUST have FFS, I'd never leave the house. I'd still be sitting inside, scared and hopeless... instead of getting OUT THERE and enjoying my new life where hey, guess what? I seem to pass pretty darn well

Much to my surprise, I DO apparently pass for the most part, but as a living and breathing woman, rather than a headshot. And I still say that's the only thing that matters in the end - go out and see what happens. If you're still getting sirred, hate it and can't wait any longer, than sure, FFS is a fine option. But I'd hate to see people getting FFS *before* finding out how they do in Real Life simply because their static photos received bad reviews here.

I mean seriously, ya gotta ask yourself who you're trying to impress? Who are you trying to pass with? A support forum for gender variants? Or the public where you need to LIVE your life?

~Kate~