Does this happen to you?

[RachelSnow]

Do those of you with spouses find that conversations lapse between being spoken to in either the 2nd or 3rd person.

When I'm dressed she usually will refer to me as simply "you" but sometimes she shifts to "her"... As if "her" was someone other than "me". She has a tendency to do this more when I'm not dressed though, it is almost always "her" and rarely "you" when she wants to discuss some aspect of dressing. As though "She" and "I" were two different people. I know in my wife's mind they are and she wants to keep it that way so that things are easier for her to deal with.

We finally agreed that I would go to counselling dressed, if we are going to talk about "her", then it would only be proper to let "her" participate in the conversation. It may be a small step forward, but I actually found it funny when on the way home from our session she said "you can be such a b!tch sometimes!"... Color me crazy but I took that as a compliment...

[molly]

Hi Rachel:

My wife hasn't seen me dressed yet so it will interesting to see how she reacts when I get to that point.

I can see how it would feel like a compliment to be called a bitch in the sense it implies acceptance as a female.  I have heard woman use the term between themselves in a playful kind of way.

Do you and your wife also go to seperate counseling sessions in addition to couple counseling?  If so, how have you found it helpful?

Molly

[RachelSnow]

I started out with a counsellor that had little to no experience with dressing at first. I was working thru so many other issues at the time (read my intro message for some background) and when I finally decided to lay my cards on the table, it was a relief but it went unfulfilled until she saw me dressed. I was seeing this person on my own while my wife was seeing someone else individually, it helped in that it gave me the courage to resolve a lot of the issues but it created more turmoil in that my wife was unable to find the answers she needed. That came later on. I think that couples has helped US more, I have a fairly clear idea of the who, what, why, how, when and where... I needed someone to help me convey that to my wife and to offer some insight into these things. I have since stopped my therapy since I was not making any further progress in my opinion. I found that once the bigger issues were resolved, I was able to acquire the necessary tools that allowed me to work on the rest of my issues on my own.

The doctor we are seeing now is considered one of the best in our area and we like her a lot. I just got back from therapy and tonight was a very good night. I've been alternating between going dressed or not. It's been good because it forced my SO to face the fact that I was really in the room there with her and she was not simply talking about someone not present beside her.

The whole bitch thing is becoming a running joke almost, this was just the first time she ever called me that to my face while dressed in the heat of the moment. It usually been in the form of a message I am to pass along to "her"... Typically when "she" has done something that bother my SO... Things like "Can you tell the bitch her clothes are spilling over onto my side of the closet?" or "Can you tell the bitch to stop stealing my razor blades?"

This last time it was different... I was no longer the bitch's messenger... I was the bitch!

[HelenW]

Rachel, I hope your SO's tone of voice is playful when she says that because otherwise it sounds to me that she's projecting alot of anger towards "her" and not really resolving it with you.

My SO hasn't gotten to the point of separating me from myself yet.  I haven't done too much dressing in front of her because I don't see the point in getting dressed just to stay home (although I still do sometimes when I need to) and she's still adament about my not leaving the house en femme.

Can you share with us how couples therapy helped and, perhaps, tell us what kind of tools you learned to use together without exposing too much personal stuff?  I'd like to know how it might go for my SO and I should we choose that route and, I believe, it might be interesting for others here too.

Just ignore me if I've asked too much,

thnx
helen

[RachelSnow]

Yes, it is very playful... I would not make light of it if it weren't...

My SO seperates the two facets so that she can reconcile it in her head. When I'm not dressed I'm "a woman trapped her husband's body" and when I'm dressed I'm "her husband trapped in a woman's body"... or something like that.

Couples therapy has helped in that it has allowed us to lay down ground rules as far as what's acceptable and what isn't... Getting a Navel Piercing is NOT acceptable!

It has allowed me to express what I believe I am, which is transgendered but never intending to transition... Where my sexual orientation is, bisexual in the past but faithfully monogamous now. My interest in men... Absolutely None! And a host of other things that may trouble her that I know can be clarified to put her mind at ease.

It also allows her the opportunity to makes her wants,needs and fears heard. And that is the key to it all I think... I have spenty far too long listening to the little female voice crying out in my head and not enough time listening to the wonderful woman suffering beside me. While she has her CDSO group to vent the things that she cannot discuss with me, there are still quite a few matters that are strictly for us to discuss alone. We have learned to listen far better than we ever did before.

Helen, I didn't really see much point in dressing to stay home either. But I do it quite often, if nothing just to affirm all the things I've told her. Maybe make a little romantic dinner, a bottle of wine and a movie... I just have to remember to do that when I'm not dressed so my SO can get the "Guy Time" she needs.

The last words you ever want to hear are "I always knew I'd lose you to another woman, I just didn't realize you WERE that woman!"