documentation and cops/TSA

[Toni]

Hello girls.  I'm trying to have srs this coming year and while looking at one of the Thai sites I saw info about having some surgical paperwork notarized by the Thai Gov't and the US Embassy?  Got me thinking and so if I have SRS overseas, or even stateside, but no FFS at this time, I'll have a female body but documents that have male stamped on them.  My fingerprints and pictures will still be OK, I think, but I can just imagine the confusion. 
    I'm not sure about how much FFS as I'm not binary and having my male stuff gone is what I need most to complete my spirit.  I think keeping my face, for the most part, will help my family still recognize me (they're good with all this, but I think it's important to understand that they're trying really hard and not dump too much too fast on them, they are important) and even keeping my name and not legally changing the spelling (Toni speaks the same, Y or I) or gender on all my documents seems just easier.
  If my bod is female will I have to change everything (drivers, pilots, passport)?  A name change, even one letter could impact money accounts, titles, deeds and all kinds of other stuff as I see it.  Is this going to be a can of worms that I'll be forced into, or can I let sleeping dogs lie?  Thanks for any info, hugs to you all.  Toni

[Julia1996]

I don't know about the TSA but the police would go by the name and gender on your legal ID. For traffic stops and things like that they use pronouns for the sex listed on your ID. They have no legal obligation to use pronouns for the opposite sex of what's on your legal ID even if you present that way. But unless the cop is a dick, they usually will. The only thing I can think of that might be a problem is if you were arrested. In that case weather you present as male or what sex is on your ID, if you have a vagina you would housed with females and treated as a female, as in gendered female. If there is any reason to suspect that you're not the sex you present as, they will strip search you to be sure. My dad has seen that done to a preop MtF that got arrested and they put her with the men. If you're trans you really want to avoid being arrested! 

[Dena]

On the flight back, you surgeon can give you a letter that will explain things to anybody who questions you on the trip. After you are home, you could continue to use your passing letter until you get everything matched up. If you don't know what a passing letter is, have your therapist write a letter that states you are transgender and being treated by that office. This letter is a get out of jail free card should you have a problem with mismatched ID. I used my letter the entire time I was full time and for a couple of months after that while I had my Social security card and drivers license corrected. My birth certificate has been wrong for around 35 years but it was in my moms possession as I never needed it.

[Toni]

Thanks, ladies.  Good info, I guess if I have the surgery, I really should have my gender changed on all my license type documents.  I really hate to have to register any kind of gender at all, but I guess in this place at this time I put myself at risk of more confusion if I don't match things up.  And yeah, really don't want to get arrested, I imagine a cold reception in either camp. Toni

[Mariah]

yes, fixing them is best and will give you more freedom. Remember just because it is on those documents doesn't mean you have to identify by the gender listed on those documents. You will have your freedom to not fall in either camp. Hugs.
Mariah

Thanks, ladies.  Good info, I guess if I have the surgery, I really should have my gender changed on all my license type documents.  I really hate to have to register any kind of gender at all, but I guess in this place at this time I put myself at risk of more confusion if I don't match things up.  And yeah, really don't want to get arrested, I imagine a cold reception in either camp. Toni

[Dee Marshall]

Toni, did you say you had a pilot's license? Last I looked the FAA considered being transgender a debilitating condition. Hopefully, this is changed. Never mattered to me as I lost my ticket, or rather the chance to continue to earn it, due to BP over a decade ago. Obviously, my info is stale.

:

April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!

Think outside the voice box!

[Laurie]

Toni, did you say you had a pilot's license? Last I looked the FAA considered being transgender a debilitating condition. Hopefully, this is changed. Never mattered to me as I lost my ticket, or rather the chance to continue to earn it, due to BP over a decade ago. Obviously, my info is stale.

Toni,
  To follow on with what Dee was saying this may be of some help to you regarding  a pilot license. Be careful to chek on the catch 22 the FAA has in place towards the bottom.

http://transgenderpilots.org/information/faa-medical-guide/

Laurie

[Toni]

DEE/Laurie, can't thank you enough for your "heads up" and info regarding aviation.  They really don't want anyone going outside the lines, do they!?  The idea of this being a mental health disorder or debilitating condition never crossed my mind, nor did it ever occur to me that the FAA gave a damn or that it was any of their business.  Oh well.  Not going to really change anything for me, thankfully, as I'm not commercial, but now I am informed thanks to you ladies.  That's what I love about this bunch!  It's a Pirates life for me!   Big hugs to both of you, Toni

[Toni]

Any one out there that was married and stayed together after transition?  My question is whether it required changing anything on the marriage certificate and whether my becoming female affects any marriage related legal privileges like hospital visitation, insurance, inheritance, etc.  Would we have to re marry as same sex couple?  Toni

[Dee Marshall]

Toni what country are you in? I'm in the USA and still married. I understand that some countries still require divorce before they even let you start transition.

:

April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!

Think outside the voice box!

[KathyLauren]

I am still married after transition.  We were given the option to get a new marriage certificate ($), but decided not to.  The old one plus my name change certificate will cover any legal necessities.

It does depend on the jurisdiction you live in.  Here in Canada, same-sex marriage is legal, so there is no issue.  Some jutisdictions used to require a divorce before a gender change could be officially recognized.  Chances are there still are some such places.

[Ashley3]

Hello girls.  I'm trying to have srs this coming year and while looking at one of the Thai sites I saw info about having some surgical paperwork notarized by the Thai Gov't and the US Embassy?  Got me thinking and so if I have SRS overseas, or even stateside, but no FFS at this time, I'll have a female body but documents that have male stamped on them.  My fingerprints and pictures will still be OK, I think, but I can just imagine the confusion. 
    I'm not sure about how much FFS as I'm not binary and having my male stuff gone is what I need most to complete my spirit.  I think keeping my face, for the most part, will help my family still recognize me (they're good with all this, but I think it's important to understand that they're trying really hard and not dump too much too fast on them, they are important) and even keeping my name and not legally changing the spelling (Toni speaks the same, Y or I) or gender on all my documents seems just easier.
  If my bod is female will I have to change everything (drivers, pilots, passport)?  A name change, even one letter could impact money accounts, titles, deeds and all kinds of other stuff as I see it.  Is this going to be a can of worms that I'll be forced into, or can I let sleeping dogs lie?  Thanks for any info, hugs to you all.  Toni

Always run this type off stuff by a lawyer in your local jurisdiction who also understands (or has access to understand) the international implications.

My personal opinion says if you're only getting SRS and not changing facial appearance or legal gender, you have no issues to worry about. You are still legally the gender you were to start... and if there is no visible change, your IDs will be in order. I don't personally see an issue...

The only connection I've ever heard of between SRS (or not) and legal gender is in backwards locales that require SRS for a legal gender change. If you're traveling internationally, something like that may apply should anyone happen to find out (i.e., searches, bathroom, showers, or some oddity like that).

Though I haven't heard of it specifically, I think some really backward countries may have issues with post-SRS people... it doesn't seem like you'd be going through places like that so likely this oddity is a nonissue.

Regarding bathrooms, I know different locales/states here in the U.S. have laws about bathroom usage and legal genders... or at least being of a legal gender matching the bathroom can help in certain situations (like if you're asked for an ID surrounding such a situation).

If you're only getting SRS and not changing legal gender or visible appearances (i.e., FFS), but you plan to use a bathroom of the gender other than your legal gender, you should research the laws in those areas where that will happen. For international travel, like if you stop over some place, that place may have limitations you'd want to be aware of.

I always ensure I know the legal implications for my own locale as well as wherever I travel. I figure I cannot be overly cautious in this area.

Your situation sounds like it may be the easiest since you're not changing visible facial appearances, legal name/gender, so you're still the original legal person and appearance... the only thing I can think of is any locale that might view post-SRS as overriding legal gender but I haven't heard of that specifically.

[rmaddy]

Any one out there that was married and stayed together after transition?  My question is whether it required changing anything on the marriage certificate and whether my becoming female affects any marriage related legal privileges like hospital visitation, insurance, inheritance, etc.  Would we have to re marry as same sex couple?  Toni

Yo.  Your marriage license is issued by the state in which you were married.  Before Obergfell, transitioners in states hostile to LGBT rights were at risk.  Since then, I don't believe there is any way that your marriage can be considered legally invalid.  That said, there is no shortage of dicks with law licenses (and/or elected offices).

[rmaddy]

Parenthetically, I can't imagine going through with GCS and not wanting legal gender change, but the world is full of mysteries.  Does that describe anyone here?  I'm legal for 3+ years and still (just barely) pre-op.

[Ashley3]

Parenthetically, I can't imagine going through with GCS and not wanting legal gender change, but the world is full of mysteries.  Does that describe anyone here?  I'm legal for 3+ years and still (just barely) pre-op.

I changed my name first but gender marker shortly thereafter... there was very little point in changed just the name... but I didn't realize until after the name change was complete... it bothered me to have the gender marker left uncorrected.

I did both name/gender within a period of like 2 months... would have been more efficient financially, time-wise, and logistics-wise if I had just done them at once... that was me again being overly cautious and likely overly incremental but better that than never moving forward.

I changed my name/gender marker at about six months into HRT and after a Rhinoplasty and Lip lift... so some facial feminization but still needing work as expected. GCS is not planned but thoughts about things along those lines are growing... not sure, we'll see. ... but point is that name/gender maker change should have been done far sooner.

I figure if someone is fine with SRS and without legally changing name/gender... that's totally fine if it works. Decades ago my thoughts were why I couldn't just get SRS "down there" without having to change other things... I wanted things to be different there. It's always been that way to some degree or another. I actually think there's nothing wrong with that sort of trajectory... sometimes folks want things to function a certain way and that's the first thought or most important thought.

I've since learned it's not that simple given hormones and whatnot so I'm happy to be on HRT first, and with some FFS... those have been immensely important to me... I've also, in my maturity in understanding myself and my possibilities better, have come to realize it's not impossible for things to be that way "down there" without SRS... to some degree at least... but it requires an open understanding of oneself, a willingness to be open to possibilities, as well as partner communication which I myself lacked in past rels. I digress but what the heck. (This is not to say SRS isn't a totally different thing... I can't know until I try. ...but just sayin' what I think I know for myself.)

[Toni]

   As usual, valuable and considerate advice, Thank you all, especially reassuring to know some have made it as far as hanging together after such a life changing event (for all concerned), we're trying hard and so far, so good.
  Dee, I'm in the US, in Texas and FWIW we were married in Wisconsin nearly 40 years ago.  Part of the reason for this question was my wife's concerns, legitimately so, about all kinds of legal ramifications that might accompany my change.  They're also my concerns as every day I am made more aware that this isn't just as simple as "doing it".
  Ashley, I really appreciate the comments you presented and your honest reflection really helped as I'm tussling with some of the same sorts of questions, even though I'm pretty confidant and without much conflict when it just comes to the how I feel about me part.  I don't know where this will lead, never been on this path before.  If I were alone in this world and could just change me I'd do it in a heartbeat.  If I get rid of the male stuff that will be the most comforting for me now, and I do dress up and have proved to myself that I can comfortably go out shopping, buy gas, get a sub sandwich etc. looking femme without being uncomfortable (no, I'm sure facially I don't really pass, but I haven't gotten weird looks or laughter or challenges either).  As for other physical changes, I'm just not sure and I have to admit that friends and family as well as my non conformist tendencies (neither playbook male nor female) play a part.  It would be nice to think that everyone should just accept, but reality is that we all do things with consideration of the people we care about, and they us.  I think that's legitimate, but how much should that influence how far, how fast I transition? I feel this is a moving target (even after 2 yrs hrt) and wonder will it ever settle out to a comfortable "enough"?  And when I consider all the possible legal, and documentary issues will they ever leave us alone?  I guess that's why I have some good, kind and caring therapists that are helping me sort this out.
Thanks again, girls.  Toni   

[steph2.0]

Any one out there that was married and stayed together after transition?  My question is whether it required changing anything on the marriage certificate and whether my becoming female affects any marriage related legal privileges like hospital visitation, insurance, inheritance, etc.  Would we have to re marry as same sex couple?  Toni

Hi Toni,

I'm in the process of transitioning, and wondered the same thing. Here's a link to a document that's pretty clear that there's little to worry about: http://www.nclrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Transgender-Family-Law-National.pdf. There are also examples of case law on that site. Go to the home page http://www.nclrights.org and search for "transgender marriage."

Hope that helps, and congratulations on having a supportive spouse. Mine's pretty great, too.

Stephanie

[Ashley3]

... It would be nice to think that everyone should just accept, but reality is that we all do things with consideration of the people we care about, and they us.  I think that's legitimate, but how much should that influence how far, how fast I transition? ...

That you're carefully thinking about your family as well as not impeding your health/happiness is a wonderful thing... it sounds like responsible caring tension that will lead to elegant answers. You're a part of a group, your family... there seems to be love there.... it's great you show respect for all that.

[Jessica Lynne]

I'm in the unenvious position of heading to Thailand with male ID. I have no choice as I'm in a State that will not issue any State ID as a gender that doesn't match your genital presentation. Given those circumstances,  my only choice is to head over, have my surgery and head home with the letter they apparently give you before you leave.  I have had FFS and lost 40 pounds since my license picture was taken, so I plan on getting a new license in the male identity with a new picture that more reflects what I look like now. So thats my plan. I hope to get back in one piece and then head to the Court for new identity documents across the board as well as a Birth Certificate change. Anyone that see's holes in my plan, please give me some advice cuz' I just want to get this done with the least amount of airport drama I can muster. It really is inconvenient to live in aplace that's so terribly intolerant, but as I own a home here, my options are unfortunately rather limited.

[Dee Marshall]

Jessica, just be careful if you have a layover on the flight. You might not want to wander out of the gate too much.

:

April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!

Think outside the voice box!