Natural Progesterone & Sensitizing Estrogen Receptors

[JennJenn]

I just started, two days ago, on some natural progesterone cream (100% USP Progesterone with no estrogen added).

According to John R. Lee in his book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause", he claims that natural progesterone sensitizes estrogen receptors, and that if a woman on HRT had been taking a high dose of estrogen they might find they need to cut that dose in half otherwise suffer symptoms of estrogen dominance, due to the sensitization.

Well I didn't cut it in half and after just two days on the natural progesterone cream, my breasts swelled up with water retention quite remarkably.  I also have been waking up feeling chilly in the morning, past couple mornings (another sign of estrogen dominance when it interferes with thyroid function).  My back and neck feels a bit more stiff as well.

Has anyone else experience this where they started micronized progesterone (prometrium) or the natural progesterone cream?  Did you find you could cut your dose in half?  I'm cutting mine in half starting today but I am concerned about free testosterone (as I still need srs/orchi) -- I suppose I'll get a blood test on that in a couple weeks.

I think the progesterone cream is sensitizing the anti-androgen effects of estrogen as well because I noticed my testes started hurting more (unusual.. never get pain there .. been on estrogen/spiro for 10 years).  To mee it seems like it'd be atrophy.  But I dunno.. maybe it's increasing in function?  Again  going to get free testosterone test in two weeks.

The progesterone cream is doing major hormonal things that for sure.. to me.   I have daily blood sugars in the pre-diabetic range and it increased my fasting blood sugar by by 12% the morning after the first day of progesterone and 20% on the following morning.. another sign of estrogen dominance (unopposed estrogen drives cortisol up and can cause metabolic syndrome / insulin resistance/ diabetes).

Well let me know what you think.

[KayXo]

According to John R. Lee in his book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause", he claims that natural progesterone sensitizes estrogen receptors, and that if a woman on HRT had been taking a high dose of estrogen they might find they need to cut that dose in half otherwise suffer symptoms of estrogen dominance, due to the sensitization.

Studies have unequivocally just shown the OPPOSITE, that progesterone leads to estrogen desensitization as there are less estrogen receptors as a result of progesterone and an increased conversion of estradiol to the weaker form of estrogen, estrone. This is why progesterone is prescribed to women with a uterus who take estrogen as estrogen alone can lead to over-proliferation of the uterine lining and cancer. John Lee's statement is scientifically unsound.

Well I didn't cut it in half and after just two days on the natural progesterone cream, my breasts swelled up with water retention quite remarkably.  I also have been waking up feeling chilly in the morning, past couple mornings (another sign of estrogen dominance when it interferes with thyroid function).  My back and neck feels a bit more stiff as well.

Has anyone else experience this where they started micronized progesterone (prometrium) or the natural progesterone cream? 

Progesterone can result in negative effects due to densensitization to estrogen so that what you are actually experiencing is a loss in estrogenic effects or, in other words, PMS.

Please do not accept my statements or Lee's statements as gospel. Verify with doctors, do your own research, read actual studies published in journals.

[JennJenn]

Dr. John R. Lee, MD wrote on page 304:

"Some women report estrogen dominance symptoms for a week or two after starting progesterone, but this is caused by a sensitization of estrogen receptors and generally disappears within a few weeks."

He is referring to normal physiological levels of progesterone for a female, not *excess* progesterone.

He does say on the following page (p. 305) that excess progesterone, in the presence of very little estrogen does similar to what you are describing:

"Symptoms of Estrogen Deficiency
Excess progesterone down regulates estrogen receptors and desensitizes tissue to estrogen. Because progesterone receptors are dependent on estrogen priming through the estrogen receptor, excess progesterone in the absence of estrogen can cause a lot of problems. This can be especially true in women who have very low estradiol and are taking large doses of progesterone."

[JennJenn]

Made a new thread for my reasoning for starting on progesterone:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,229042.new.html#new

[KayXo]

Dr. John R. Lee, MD wrote on page 304:

"Some women report estrogen dominance symptoms for a week or two after starting progesterone, but this is caused by a sensitization of estrogen receptors and generally disappears within a few weeks."

Doesn't me an author asserts something that it is right. His statement has never been confirmed by studies and is at odds with findings from several studies. If progesterone caused sensitization of estrogen receptors, it would cause problems for women with a uterus as this would lead to excess proliferation and further increase the risk of cancer which is the opposite of what actually happens. In breast, progesterone has also shown to reduce, not increase, estrogen sensitivity.

Don't blindly accept assertions. Do your research.