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can't pass as man, boy, or even woman at this point

Started by meatwagon, November 04, 2017, 12:08:39 PM

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meatwagon

as if living with constant misgendering isn't uncomfortable enough, lately i feel even worse about it as i realize people don't even see me as an adult, regardless of my gender.  i grit my teeth and accept "ma'am", but within the past couple of days i've received "miss" and even "young lady", and the way people talk to me is like talking to a child.  it's honestly disrespectful to call someone who isn't obviously a child "young lady" like that, and even if i look young i don't see how i could be mistaken for an outright child.  so i'm at least willing to write that one off as that particular woman having a bad attitude--which i won't get into detail but she kind of did.  still, a lot more "miss"es than i care to deal with lately, as well.  i don't appreciate being taken for a child in any context, but being treated like a little girl is just the most humiliating thing of all.  the only way to be safe from that, i guess, is to staunchly avoid old ladies.  too bad it's not actually possible to do...  even family members who know how old i am treat me like a child.  i can't take it much more.

i've just been feeling really down about the constant misgendering lately and there's nothing i can even do about it.  this past week has been especially bad since i've had to go out a lot and my work schedule has changed so that i'm working around more people during the day.  i work maintenance, which until recently was something i did alone.  the other day, one of the other maintenance guys asked if i'd cleaned the bathrooms already; i told him "all but the men's because it was packed so i couldn't get in there yet", to which he replied that he'd get the men's... with the addition of "i can go in there, because i'm a man!"  cue the sad little fake laugh that secretly wants to be tears.  then my grandmother's friend was kind enough to take me to a doctor appointment (it was in a place i've never been and i didn't have time to learn the area, so getting a ride was easier because she was already headed that way to go assist my great grandparents--and it gave me a chance to visit them, as well).  i love her, but she always feels the need to call me "girl", etc, and comment on how "pretty" i look.  i had my hair down, so of course cue the statements about the beautiful hair, and when i shake my head at that, she insists as though she's trying to reassure me that i'm pretty.  if i didn't know she knew about my gender, maybe it wouldn't hurt so bad.  then between the doctor's office and the shop we stopped at on the way back, a bunch of "miss" and one very rude "young lady", with her calling me "girl" all the way.  great grandparents, of course, do the same, right down to a repeat of the "i know you frown, but it's true, you're so pretty" incident.  needless to say, by the time i got home, i was absolutely exhausted--and the day was barely half over.

and now that i'm working a (mostly) daytime shift, there are that many more opportunities to hear "she" and "ma'am" and "miss" and "your name's kenny?  wow, your parents must have wanted a boy!" on a regular basis.

it's just really, really bumming me out lately.  if i hadn't recently started T (i'm about a week on with a low dose, so of course no noticeable effects yet, but at least i'm finally able to start doing something about transition after years of waiting), i'm afraid to even imagine how much worse i'd feel. 

how do you cope with not only being seen as a female, but being seen as a girl?  not even an adult woman worthy of equal treatment, but a little girl to be talked down to and all the humiliating things that come with it?
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Elis

Idk I just sort of muddled through. You know yourself better than anyone and most people are idiots. Don't give it a 2nd thought. Within a year you'll pass anyhow.
They/them pronouns preferred.



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Ryuichi13

I have to admit, I haven't been seen as an actual "girl" for a long time, but I have been clocked as "female" a few times recently.  (I have a freakin' BEARD!  Sure its a patchy one, but really? [emoji19])  Having long dreadlocks like I do, as well as a round face doesn't help, even when I pull my hair back into a ponytail, which is how I usually wear it.

Have you considered cutting your hair into a male style?  I know its a scary thing, but until your voice drops or you start getting facial hair, at least you might have people call you "young man."  Trust me, when you get over 40, it'll be a GREAT thing if people are still calling you that!  If you want long hair, it'll grow back.  I've also seen men shave the sides only, so the middle strip/mohawk is long.  They also wear it in a ponytail that way, especially while working. 

When I get misgendered, I immediately correct them, even in a crowd of people, or in public.  It may seem rude, but its ruder to misgender you!  You may or may not get an apology, but either way, they might remember it for the next time.  Expect people to get it wrong for a while, especially family members.  Keep correcting them.  If they say anything like, "well, I'm going to keep calling you she/her/miss/etc because its easier," they're being disrespectful of how it makes YOU feel.  If need be, especially with family that knows or those you're close to, explain how it makes you depressed/upset/etc. 

Be prepared to know that you MAY get some negative responses from family and close friends.  You may even lose them for a while by you not wanting to be around them. 

I'm going through that now with one of my sisters.  I have no plans of going to see her the next time I go home because of her refusal to take MY feelings into consideration with her constant misgendering and deadnaming me.  I don't care that she's known me as "deadname and deadgender" for her 50 years, that person no longer exists. 

Same with you.  That gender and name no longer exists.  So why are they referring to you that way?

Yeah, its rough, but the way it make  you feel is VALID.  You ARE allowed to feel hurt/upset/angry/depressed/etc.  YOUR feelings are just as valid as theirs!

Feel free to PM me if you need to talk further.

Ryuichi 



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meatwagon

Quote from: Elis on November 04, 2017, 12:45:40 PM
Idk I just sort of muddled through. You know yourself better than anyone and most people are idiots. Don't give it a 2nd thought. Within a year you'll pass anyhow.
i try!  just when it's a whole lot of it happening at once, it gets hard to handle any more.  the only place i can really escape from it is online, and i guess at the doctor's office lol.  *deep breaths* big picture, big picture...

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 04, 2017, 12:47:01 PM
I have to admit, I haven't been seen as an actual "girl" for a long time, but I have been clocked as "female" a few times recently.  (I have a freakin' BEARD!  Sure its a patchy one, but really? [emoji19])  Having long dreadlocks like I do, as well as a round face doesn't help, even when I pull my hair back into a ponytail, which is how I usually wear it.

Have you considered cutting your hair into a male style?  I know its a scary thing, but until your voice drops or you start getting facial hair, at least you might have people call you "young man."  Trust me, when you get over 40, it'll be a GREAT thing if people are still calling you that!  If you want long hair, it'll grow back.  I've also seen men shave the sides only, so the middle strip/mohawk is long.  They also wear it in a ponytail that way, especially while working. 
it's currently an undercut (long on top, shaved sides/bottom) and i plan on keeping it that way.  i've done the short hair thing, and while i had a few more people thinking i was a little boy before correcting themselves when they got a better look at me or heard my voice, i don't really consider that worth it for me.  "been there, done that"; short hair is fun to play with, but it just ain't my style.  i do tie it up for work, can't stand it getting in my face.  wish i could figure out tying it into a bun tbh because the ponytail bit keeps flopping over my shoulder, but it always looks ridiculous when i try ;v; 
i know having hair of any kind isn't exactly helping my case, but from my experience, not having hair didn't change things in any significant way, either--so if i'm not passing either way, i'd rather not pass with a look i'm comfortable with than "occasionally almost pass as a child" with something that doesn't really suit me.  ...'sides, it took me 3 years to grow my hair this long and i ain't letting that go now.  it may grow back, but i don't relish reliving that awkward "growing my hair out" phase if i can avoid it.

QuoteWhen I get misgendered, I immediately correct them, even in a crowd of people, or in public.  It may seem rude, but its ruder to misgender you!  You may or may not get an apology, but either way, they might remember it for the next time.  Expect people to get it wrong for a while, especially family members.  Keep correcting them.  If they say anything like, "well, I'm going to keep calling you she/her/miss/etc because its easier," they're being disrespectful of how it makes YOU feel.  If need be, especially with family that knows or those you're close to, explain how it makes you depressed/upset/etc. 

Be prepared to know that you MAY get some negative responses from family and close friends.  You may even lose them for a while by you not wanting to be around them. 

I'm going through that now with one of my sisters.  I have no plans of going to see her the next time I go home because of her refusal to take MY feelings into consideration with her constant misgendering and deadnaming me.  I don't care that she's known me as "deadname and deadgender" for her 50 years, that person no longer exists. 

Same with you.  That gender and name no longer exists.  So why are they referring to you that way?
unfortunately, i live with my grandmother right now so i am in no position to argue about this stuff with anyone because it just puts me at risk of being cornered in a place i can't get out of.  too much stress right now will send me to the hospital, so i have to pick my battles... and having already experienced what happens when i stand up to my family in any small way, vs what happens when i just bottle it up and suffer through, at least for now the latter is more doable--and comes with less risk of me having to worry about where i'm gonna live or being in a constant state of anxiety as i try to avoid further confrontation.  i feel like if i just let them have this, i can focus on getting my own stuff together so i can move out as soon as possible.  i already don't talk to my family if i don't have to, things are really tense and uncomfortable and i have to just kind of pretend i'm OK with being treated like absolute garbage because the alternative is worse... but once i am able to move, i don't plan on maintaining contact with any of them unless they change their behavior.  i put up with it because i have to, but once i no longer have to, i don't intend to put up with it at all.  i ain't got time for that.

QuoteYeah, its rough, but the way it make  you feel is VALID.  You ARE allowed to feel hurt/upset/angry/depressed/etc.  YOUR feelings are just as valid as theirs!

Feel free to PM me if you need to talk further.

Ryuichi 
thanks, man.  i am genuinely not used to being validated in any way; sometimes emotions are really hard to deal with as a result
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Kylo

It is frustrating. It took me a few years to pass.

But I expect it to be a rough road. I didn't even expect I would ever pass. I did have a very feminine face.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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TransAm

Misgendering definitely blows, but you know what? You're finally up and headed in the right direction; this is a temporary issue now instead of just being your life. Now's the time to really keep your nose to the grindstone and stay focused on what the (pretty near) future's got in store for you.
Soon, all these awful moments will just be faded memories.

You've got this.
"I demolish my bridges behind me - then there is no choice but forward." - Fridtjof Nansen
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CodexUmbrae

I think I understand to some degree. I'm 18, so I am young, but people see me as a 13 y/o. Most of the time, fortunately, I'm seen as a little boy, but, usually older people, just call me "little girl", and it's really frustrating. I already have to deal with a really exhausting social anxiety (have had it since always), and now, that I go to university (the largest one in my country), I daily have a lot of people staring at me everywhere 'cause is weird to see someone as "young" as me (people usually believe that I'm a gifted 12 y/o kid, funny 'cause I am actually considered gifted and when I was in kindergarden my parents were offered to put me in a special school but they didn't want to) in a place like that and random guys just come to me and straight ask my age. And they all get freaked out when I answer. I once aswered I was 8 y/o because I was tired of being asked everywhere and they actually believed me. I had to tell them I was joking.

I know it's something that I'll have to deal all my life with, but sometimes I just can't take it anymore. I know. I'm not even 5 ft tall, I hace a really young-looking face (even when I was presenting as a girl, people still thought that I was at least 5 years younger). And all that, coupled with the fact that I don't know how to act in social situations, do make me look as a lost kiddo. But it's really frustrating. I know T won't make me taller nor make me look older, so I'm condemned. I'm still in the process to accept it.

But yeah, I think I just try to just ignore it. I try to see the good things to it (people are usually kinder to me, and have more patience when I do something wrong or something, things like that). And I try to concentrate in another things. People usually underestimates me, and it's satisfying to prove them wrong. And I like a lot to write (I spend a lot of time of my day completely absorbed in my own mind and my imaginary worlds). I know it's not a very healthy thing to do, but it's my only way of coping with the real world, and I've been doing it since always.

Try to focus in another things. I know that having even a single person misgender you can make one feel pretty bad, at least it does it to me, and being treated as a child does make it worse, but hey, it won't last forever. Nothing is forever, and now that you started T, you're already in the way.

The best of luck.
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elkie-t

Give it another 20-30 years, it will pass. No one would call you young then


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widdershins

Quote from: elkie-t on November 04, 2017, 09:20:21 PM
Give it another 20-30 years, it will pass. No one would call you young then


That's what I've been telling myself. I'm in my early 30s and constantly mistaken for a teenager. But no matter how T ends up affecting me in the end, I at least know for sure that age catches up with everyone eventually. I'm not looking forward to all the medical issues aging brings, but I am looking forward to being treated like an actual adult.

In the meantime, being out to my cowrokers really helps a lot. Clients still misgender me all the time, but having someone calling me by the right name and pronouns takes the edge off and gets me through the day without internally screaming too much.
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The Flying Lemur

I got "miss" twice in one week, and I'm 45.  Whatever age you are, it's invalidating to be spoken to like a child, and constant misgendering can drive you nuts.  I totally get where you're coming from, Meatwagon, and I'm really sorry this is happening to you. 
The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. --Joseph Campbell
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elkie-t

Quote from: The Flying Lemur on November 04, 2017, 10:15:08 PM
I got "miss" twice in one week, and I'm 45.  Whatever age you are, it's invalidating to be spoken to like a child, and constant misgendering can drive you nuts.  I totally get where you're coming from, Meatwagon, and I'm really sorry this is happening to you.
Many women insist on not being ma'am because it makes them feel old. Many men call any woman under 60 'miss' if feel the need to address the person but not sure of her preferences. Being called miss is not indicative that you're being taken as a teenager, it can be just politeness.
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Annushka

Hi, meatwagon!! (now that's a curious nickname...)

This topic caught my attention, because it is something that sometimes scares me.
But being born a boy, my situation is reverse to yours...

I'm still starting HRT and still present myself socially as a man, but I guess I am on an androgynous point. Many of my child students ask me: "are you a boy or a girl?" when we first met. Inside of me everything screams: "DEFINITELY GIRL!!!" but I only limit myself to ask them back "what do you think?" and give a big smile no matter what they answer.

But I am a late transitioner and it scares me the idea of being forever stuck on this point where people can't see me as a woman and also can't anymore see me as a man. For the moment I enjoy it! The feeling is great because it feels I'm on the right path, but I want to fully transition and I know that after 30s things are not that easy and chances are very high for me to perceived as a weird person or worst, like a fetishist guy in woman's clothes...

Well, that was just a "sharing my concerns" sigh inspired by your topic.

I believe you are young aged. So enjoy your youth and all the time you have for the hormones to do their magic!
You'll be a "Sir" at no time. Wish you the best!!!

And just for the record, I'd really really love to be called "little girl".  ;)
All you need is love and kindness!  :icon_flower:




HRT:


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WEIGHT LOSS:


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PidgeTPN

I go back and forth all the time with whether I pass or not, regardless of how old people think I am. I've had to just politely correct people, grin and bear it unfortunately. It sucks, but we know ourselves better than any stranger.
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