No gender identity at all - input/experiences?

[Royal Blue]

I'm starting this thread less to talk about my own experience and more in hopes to hear the experiences of others. Hopefully there isn't already a thread like this? I looked around and didn't see one.

I've been poking around this forum a bit in my own search, and the diversity of non-binary identities is fascinating to me. It seems like a lot of folks identify as some combination of male or female (or masculine and feminine), but I was especially interested when I discovered that other people seemed to feel a lack of any gender like I do.

For context, a little about my experience: I've never encountered a label that seems right, and I feel most comfortable when I don't align myself with a gender at all. I'm AFAB, which I think I would rather be than AMAB if I could get to choose, but calling myself a woman just because I'm mostly fine with my body feels like basing my entire identity around something just as arbitrary as my hair or eye color. I also have some dysphoria, which mostly relates to wanting to be as physically androgynous as possible. My presentation and dress is also pretty androgynous, and so is my personality, but I don't really want to base my identity around that, either. And the fact that I've been treated as a woman by the world (and therefore subject to sexist attitudes & treatment) has had an impact on my life, but I'm not interested in defining myself by the way I'm perceived by others.

Basically, I have a lot of thoughts and feelings related to gender, but none of that makes me feel like I *am* any gender in particular. I'm really interested in hearing from anyone who feels like this is similar to their experience. Why did you eventually choose the label you chose (or lack of a label)? Do you feel a drive to present a certain way (ex. androgynous) or is that irrelevant to you? And if you don't label yourself, do you feel uncomfortable being labeled by others or are you indifferent to it?

All perspectives are greatly appreciated! 

[Elis]

I identify as demi male (someone who is mostly male but also is partly another gender). For me I feel around 90% male and the rest like I have no gender (agender). I feel a lot more comfortable being seen as male and having a more masculine looking body but my gender expression would ideally be feminine. I would love for my body to be slightly androgynous and less muscular but unfortunately I simply don't have that body type. I'm ok with my parts and don't think I'll have bottom surgery and I strongly dislike the way my chest looks and am getting top surgery soon; but I can look at myself topless without getting angry or upset. I have social dysphoria due to being seen and referred to as male; which also leads me to feeling angry towards people but as nb is still not understood I have to simply grin and bear it.

As someone who's demisexual (not feeling sexual attraction unless there's a strong emotional connection first) my non feelings about gender and sex are the same. When I look at someone I simply have never felt that urge or need to have sex with them. I try too but it's just not exciting to me even if that person is physically attractive. As for gender when someone says they feel completely male; never doubting it all (even when realising I was trans the trans male label never felt completely right)  and saying that they hate their body and need bottom surgery immediately; I just can't compute that. It's like they're speaking in a code my brain can't translate; no matter how much I try.

You might want to look at the non binary network on YouTube and tumblr; as well as beyond the binary; which is an online magazine about all things nb.

Hope this helped

[Asche]

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but here goes.

I'm AMAB, but never felt like "male" described me, other than anatomically.  Gender always felt like something society was imposing on me, as if I'd been drafted (to get sent off to Vietnam, presumably.)  It isn't something I would have chosen and it's something I would have much rather gotten out of, if I'd had any idea how.  I went along as little as I could get away with.  When I can get away from all the stuff they're trying (not all that successfully) to make me do and be, I'm neither male nor female, I'm just me.

I'm transitioning to living as a woman, but it doesn't mean I feel like I'm a woman inside.  It's just that looking like a woman, dressing like a woman, acting out a woman's role, and having people respond to me as if I were a woman is a heck of a lot more pleasant and easier.  Inside, though, I'm still neither male nor female, I'm just me.

Maybe if I were in my teens or 20's, instead of my 60's, and if I hadn't had such horrible experiences with "male socialization" and with boys and men, I might have opted for being genderqueer or agender or something.  But I think that it would still be kind of a role or a language or something which I chose to most comfortably relate to the rest of humanity.  Deep inside, I would still be just me.

[Tessa James]

Hey Royal Blue thanks for starting this thread. I have been welcoming folks to the non binary section here for years and find many people identify as agender, non gender, bi gender, gender fluid, androgynous, and dozens of other new descriptive terms like demiboi or grrl or you name yourself!  Sometimes the more familiar narrative "I am a ____ in a ____ body is too simplistic and narrow for many of us.

The data from the largest trans survey seems to reflect this with over a third of the respondents clicking the non binary box.  I lived the majority of my life feeling androgynous but definitely not male and not truly a woman without an asterisk or trans prefix.  Most transgender people do not go for a medical and/or surgical transition.  There are also plenty of people who do their best to tailor their transition with low doses, minimal change or toward greater androgyny or even "nullification".  It seems that personal authenticity and just being myself are in ascendancy.

The wide diversity and scope of gender identity has always been around but transition now offers us options.  Gender roles can be distinctly different than gender identity and worthy of major discussions about cultural expectations and dominant paradigms.

Dominant cisgender and hetero-normative perspectives may suggest that many people looking at someone like me will simply see gay or queer.  Most people take the easy way and try to put us all in convenient and familiar little boxes.

Part of the significant value we bring to the world is to be visible representations of the real diversity that has been shut in the closet for a long long time.  Why is gender identity so important to people in the first place?

[Lucy Ross]

Asche and I are cut from the same cloth, big time.  My sense of self overrides anything society wants to impose on me; when I entered HS I completely turned my back on what my peers expected in terms of dress or behavior, and since then I haven't identified with other males at all, or wanted to be part of their shenanigans, and have felt next to no compulsion to be a square peg in a square hole.  Curiously enough since finding out about my TS side I don't have any qualms about wanting to fit in with women, in terms of appearance anyway.  I still just feel like Lucy on the inside, though.  And I entered HS at the same time I got too big to crossdress in my mother's clothes any more, too. I wish I had any spare money whatsoever to spend on another session with my gender therapist to talk about this, or the other things I've found out about myself since I saw her last.

Being more than a bit of a recluse I'm probably a major exception to the rule, though.

[Tommie_9]

Basically, I have a lot of thoughts and feelings related to gender, but none of that makes me feel like I *am* any gender in particular. I'm really interested in hearing from anyone who feels like this is similar to their experience. Why did you eventually choose the label you chose (or lack of a label)? Do you feel a drive to present a certain way (ex. androgynous) or is that irrelevant to you? And if you don't label yourself, do you feel uncomfortable being labeled by others or are you indifferent to it?
All perspectives are greatly appreciated! 

As I began my self discovery journey, I went through what you're going through. I asked this same question on here and most of the responses were to forget worrying about labels. At first, I was sure I was non-binary. My confidence and happiness as female binary grew, and now I'm all female who sometimes dresses butch. Take a lot of test drives, and you'll find yourself. Good vibes to you!

[Allie24]

For me, there is sex and then there is gender. Sex is biological, immutable. Gender is pure construct and 100% subjective.

Though I am a transsexual female, my gender expression is fluid and androgynous, but I in no way view that as me being both a man and a woman or neither or what have you. I just see that as me preferring androgyny over stereotypical male and female attire.

If you're fine with your body then don't change it. Dress androgynously. Don't worry about identities or what category you fit in. Just live your life as yourself. That is my recommendation. Who we are as people transcends language. Trying to lock it down with words will steal its magic. Even terms for non-binary identities I think steal away from that experience. Go out there and live how you want to live.

[Sno]

Omg Asche, this resonated so strongly "We are choosing our language to more comfortably relate to the rest of humanity" - we are wanting that language to do the work of explanation, to reduce how much we have to explain...
I'm neutrois in part - ambivalent about gender, neutral, sees both sides, and that helps me live with my appearance. Where this all gets tricky is that my reactions and actions are feminine, in the main, very consistently so, and Demi-girl (grrl) helps a little to clarify about me.

In the main though, Genderqueer fits well, as my response to gender cues is usually a surprise to the folk I'm with.

Ultimately, it's about your comfort, if you like a label, have one; if you like to dress, do so; and dress however you like to make yourself feel better - coming out and the labels we choose can help reduce the number of folk who are surprised, that's all.

Welcome to the forest...

Rowan